why did Citeh and Arsenal finish ahead of ManUre and Sperz?

[arseofacrow]

lack of character/will to win runs throughout the squad.

Unfortunately, I believe that this will see us fail in our quest for trophies. Despite the fact that we do have a some very good players.

could say that about the '99,'00,'01 bunch...
with a little tweaking, they did OK in the end

Look at the calibre of players mate

Your comparing apples and pieces of shit

Needs more than the tweaking of that period. A solid base of world class proven talent. No comparison.

[stg]

I dont think I was being selective I pointed out that I thought we could of closed the gap on the top two. Implying that we lost too many games(10 to city's 5). We lost Sagna twice to broken legs this season, TV5, Per, Santos, Arteta & Wilshere not your typical tippy tappy footballers.

If it's all about going out and spending the fcuking money as you put it how have we finished 3rd. How have we finished 3rd in a season where apparently the

standard has been as low as it has been for over 20yrs

and

wenger has accumulated the worst squad we have had representing our club for almost 30 years

Hang on so Arsenal have finished 3rd in the PL with the worst squad for 30 years and that is a problem......

[highburyJD]

those world class players still consistently fell at the last hurdle
failing to beat 10 men in extra time, twice, missing key penalties. Conceding key goals straight after scoring.
Easy to characterise that lot as bottlers...

[arseofacrow]

those world class players still consistently fell at the last hurdle
failing to beat 10 men in extra time, twice, missing key penalties. Conceding key goals straight after scoring.
Easy to characterise that lot as bottlers...

Yes, forgetting the "proven" part. I, along with eveyone I spoke to around that time, were not in the least bit worried. Yes, our levels went down but we were confident in the proven world class that we had at the club, hence the key, undeniable difference.

They had already done it, and they went on to do it again.

[Tomáš]

only one reason: Better teams in the PL have most likely more money to spent!

This entire money circus thing has become ridiculous
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... nders.html

and for City and ManUtd...they have already more money to spent...City from the arabian guy and Utd from the US 'Invsestors'....the game is really fucked up..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18073955
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18069113

[augie]

highburyJD , I agree with most of what you say about the freakish situation of all 4 full backs being out at the one time (although I am not convinced by the quality of 3 of them) and I agree that we have the nucleas of a good squad but I would argue that we have had a strong nucleas in recent seasons and the manager has refused to add to it and I would be absolutely amazed if he changed his "style" of management this summer whereas you appear to have total confidence that he will My belief has always been that when you have no evidence to the contrary, all you can go on is what we have witnessed in the past and that does not back up the notion that wenger will do what is required this summer unless we are talking about freebies like kalou (average at best) and/or hoillet.

When I said about the two brainless fools on the line I actually meant on the wings Walnut and the forehead are not, in my opinion at least, good enough to be starters on any team expecting to challenge for honours. Where you believe that walnut needs consistancy I feel that he needs more intelligence and needs to bring more than raw pace to the table cos most teams have sussed him out now and just sit deep which more or less totally negates him.

My original piece was directed at stg who spoke glowingly about the future, the bigger picture and of course the successful(ish) club (whatever that means ) we will become. My question to him would be, if rvp leaves will you still be as confident ? Surely his house of cards could not collapse if just one player left the club ? I think we all know that our squad, such as it currently stands, is nowhere near good enough without rvp and that house of hope for the future would come crushing down liked it was being ripped apart by a tsunmai (sp ) and that is how fragile our team is right now.

[stg]

My original piece was directed at stg who spoke glowingly about the future, the bigger picture and of course the successful(ish) club (whatever that means ) we will become. My question to him would be, if rvp leaves will you still be as confident ? Surely his house of cards could not collapse if just one player left the club ? I think we all know that our squad, such as it currently stands, is nowhere near good enough without rvp and that house of hope for the future would come crushing down liked it was being ripped apart by a tsunmai (sp ) and that is how fragile our team is right now.

Simple answer to your question is yes I am confident that Arsenal can do well without RVP next season if he leaves.

Can you point out where I speak glowingly about our future. I said Arsenal

are a well run club with a manager who is with the board looking after the club so that in the years to come you, me and your children still have a sucsesfull(ish) club to support.

thats not glowingly thats just the truth. I could say that perhaps you want Arsenal to go out and spend millions on players and put ourselves into debt or spend all the money we have with out looking or planning ahead but you and others will just come back with "we just want them to spend a bit more not to go into debt" but how much is a bit more. Who is to say these so called great players we bring in will make the diffrence.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing and it is easy to look at Wenger should of done but at the end of this season we finished 3rd in the PL. 3rd ahead of Chelsea a team who have the bottomless pit of money many are crying out for on here, 3rd ahead of Chelsea who will change manager after manager. 3rd ahead of Chelsea who if they dont win on Saturday will not be in the CL next season. 3rd ahead of L'poo who spent £125m on players last summer who changed their manager because they listened to the supporters because they did not like Hodgson and look where it's got them. 3rd above a Spurs side which is said to be the greatest in a generation.

I am not saying there are not problems at Arsenal but to read some on here you would think we are in the same position as Villa etc

[SteveO 35]

Guys please - we can not have 70% of people voting for 'we just got lucky'

Honestly over a 38 game season in a difficult league it is just crass to suggest that, whatever any of us think about Wenger or the playing squad. How you apportion the credit is up to you but it is not luck to finish 3rd over 38 games.

Were Spurs unsettled by rumours about 'Arry? Sorry I can't buy that for a minute.

Is it the worst Chelsea time in a while? Perhaps

Whatever you might think about the state of opposition teams, the fact remains that finishing above all of them apart from Man City and United is not down to luck. The table doesn't lie - we were just marginally better than Spurs, Newcastle and Chelsea, and a lot worse than City and United.

[highburyJD]

its nothing short of amazing the lack of credit given to our team here

many many posters predicted 5th-7th, several suggested top ten at best, I even heard talk of a relegation battle
it was predicted Sperz would finish 'miles' ahead of us
and that Liverpool and Chelski would also easily outstrip us

Montpellier and Dortmund have shown that money is not the be all and end all
yes ManShittys millions gives them a big advantage but the league table is not based on cash alone
it will be difficult but I want to see us challenge,
with most of our sponsorship deals up for renegotiation in 2014 it's vital we qualify for the CL in the coming season and the one after
for real revenue maximisation we need to win a trophy in 2013 and the league/CL in 2014
these aren't impossible targets but they are far from easy

[rigsby]

I don't think the term 'bottlers' is ENTIRELY warranted. Arsenal have won some big games this year when we've needed to. Sure we stumbled a bit across the line, but Utd fucked a league title up so that can happen.

Third is a good achievement this year. It gives us a good base to build on. Let's hope we do.

[highburyJD]

I don't think the term 'bottlers' is ENTIRELY warranted. Arsenal have won some big games this year when we've needed to. Sure we stumbled a bit across the line, but Utd fucked a league title up so that can happen.

Third is a good achievement this year. It gives us a good base to build on. Let's hope we do.

agree 100%
our biggest highest pressure games were arguably Udinese, Chelski away and Sperz at home

surely some credit has to go to the players and management
people predict terrible things - relegation battles, midtable, no europe...
we actually improve get automatic CL - then even that is dismissed as luck

[I Hate Hleb]

...

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

Yeah, but it's not 'hindsight' when you've been saying the same thing for 4 fecking years!!

[donaldo]

I don't think the term 'bottlers' is ENTIRELY warranted. Arsenal have won some big games this year when we've needed to. Sure we stumbled a bit across the line, but Utd fucked a league title up so that can happen.

Third is a good achievement this year. It gives us a good base to build on. Let's hope we do.

agree 100%
our biggest highest pressure games were arguably Udinese, Chelski away and Sperz at home

surely some credit has to go to the players and management
people predict terrible things - relegation battles, midtable, no europe...
we actually improve get automatic CL - then even that is dismissed as luck

FFS in the last 7 years we have flip flopped between 3rd and 4th place.Its become the norm the board and manager accept it.A base to build on we were light years behind the worst Man Utd team for 20 years.Our problem is while Utd will strengthen we sit back and admire finishing 3rd/4th while our best players leave.The gap wasnt small it was 19 pts

[augie]

its nothing short of amazing the lack of credit given to our team here

many many posters predicted 5th-7th, several suggested top ten at best, I even heard talk of a relegation battle
it was predicted Sperz would finish 'miles' ahead of us
and that Liverpool and Chelski would also easily outstrip us

Montpellier and Dortmund have shown that money is not the be all and end all
yes ManShittys millions gives them a big advantage but the league table is not based on cash alone
it will be difficult but I want to see us challenge,
with most of our sponsorship deals up for renegotiation in 2014 it's vital we qualify for the CL in the coming season and the one after
for real revenue maximisation we need to win a trophy in 2013 and the league/CL in 2014
these aren't impossible targets but they are far from easy

So that is the confusing thing for me.........so many times the "tinters" on here are happy to use the riches of other clubs as a reason why we aint getting near winning anything but then on other occasions they point to the likes of dortmund as an example of how money isnt everything - which is it ? Bottom line is that we havent got enough quality players and the coaching (or lack thereof) borders on shambolic and I have always said that I could accept not winning trophies as long as the club is doing everything it can to gain success but in my opinion they aint even close

[officepest]

It's not about spunking massive coin on anyone who'll sign (Liverpool) it's about canny investment that benefits the team. Look at P Cisse and Jelavic for mid-season signings that were affordable and brought instant results (£5M for jelavic, less than half of what Lt Worf cost us).

Of course there are no guarantees that player A will be a success over player B but when you look at some of the overpaid garbage we have (now mostly on loan) then our recruitment policy has holes one could drive an oil-tanker through. I don't see the summer being a change of direction as we have 9 or so players to come back and a squad limit of 25, we will have to show the exit door before we can recruit the players we desperately need.

Unfortunately we may not be able shift the deadwood as they are on huge money - a direct side-effect of Wenger's myopic view that paying 19-20 year-olds salaries that in no way mirrors their abilities. So, it would be nice to sign a defensive midfielder that actually knows how to defend (cough, cough, Song, I'm looking at you), we probably won't as their potential wages go to keep Chamakh, Diaby, Denilson, Almunia etc in expensive mansions.

I also note with regret that Wenger has already stated that Diaby and Wilshere will be like new signings, I know wilshere is class but this phrase makes me irate as every year we seem to have somebody new 'coming back' from a career-threatening injury. The club know we pick up an inordinately high amount of injuries and should plan accordingly.