Racism in Milan (12/3)

[MK Gould]

I've looked it up in my book and you giving stick to Northerners is ok as its got nothing to do with "physical characteristics" (they're all so think and inbred that they probably don't even realise they are being abused!) - whereas them having a dig at your gingerness, well...undoubtedly that is racist!! Northern European Celts Unite! Its now time for us to fight back and defend our rights!! Ok, so I'm grey now, but I do get stick for having ginger eyebrows, and my son definitely gets his ginger hair and freckles from me, so I'm with yer all the way.....

[Cus Geezer]

I hear what you say Cus but unfortunately anti-semitism is on the increase and although overall crime is down violent crime is up.You can`t pick up a paper without reading some innocent person has been kicked or stabbed to death by some drunken yobs.One of the reasons they do it is that they have no respect for anyone or anything because they have been brought up in a society where it is not politically correct to disipline children so they grow up thinking they can get away with anything and they invariably do.If they do go to jail it`s often more comfortable than some hotels and oh yes prison officers have to call them Mister.

Anti-semitism isn't on the increase in England - compared to the Mosleyite reactions of the 30s it barely exists at all. Nick Griffin is a holocaust denier but he barely mentions much on Judaism because he knows no one is really interested in it and concentrates on the Muslims.

There's a reason why you can't pick up a paper without some mention of violent crime - fear sells - if you think of the example of horror films people have always paid good money for the thrill of scaring the shit out of themselves. Violent crime is over reported by the tabloid press because it sells.

As for political correctness and not disciplining children - surveys often show that working class people are more likely to smack their children than middle class - so are middle class kids more likely to be violent offenders? I don't think statistics will prove this to be the case.

And as for jail being like an hotel - why is suicide in prison in the increase if it is so cushy?

[mymumlovescesc]

I can't believe everyone's talking about this - a discussion about what racism is is pointless - those of us that care can recognise racism/xenophobia when we hear it and I for one feel that Arsenal fans should be better than that. I love the fact that we're such a multiracial team and that Arsene says 'I don't look at their passports' - he's right and he knows he has the moral high ground on the matter. I had an anti Man U vid sent to me by an Arsenal fan i didn't know, which was great, until the Hitler salute came at the end and I thought - what the fuck??? Aren't we disgusted when we hear our black players getting booed in Spain? It's just wrong and I'd hate to think that someone would have to think twice about going to watch Arsenal because they might experience racism - we're far far better than that - we play the best football anywhere - why do people need to bring themselves and the club into the gutter????

[MK Gould]

Racism is the 80's was the National Front. It was skinheads on marches. Monkey chants and bananas thrown on the pitch. And Arsenal (& Spurs...) was like an oasis in a desert of despair. Chelsea & West Ham in particular had dreadful reputations and their supporters were openly and often violently racist.

Racism today is often more low key. I live in a small middle class middle England market town and it never ceases to amaze me how there is still a level of racism (particularly amongst the yocals) that's not in your face, but there nonetheless. The trouble is that its the sort of racism that you can't march against. The odd reference to the paki kid who plays for the cricket team. The occasional distasteful joke. But I have to say that the biggest racists I know aren't white anglo saxon indigenous English - they are 2nd generation English Asians, often of Indian descent!

It may never disappear completely but at least racism is now kept mostly at the individual level, rather than mobs at football matches!!

[Graceskye]

I agree that there is no room for racism in any form. How can anyone say that calling someone y...os is not racist - of course it is.

The only way to stamp it out is to make an example of the morons who do this. It would be great to identify them and parade them around the stadium before a match and then evict them just as it started. They would be so embarrassed and every true Arsenal fan would know exactly who they were - would they dare to show their face again?

I also agree that acting like a yob in another country just let's down our team. Our team have to behave properly on the pitch and also have to behave appropriately in their private lives. If not they get slaughtered in the press. Why do some people let them down by behaving like this?

[the_gooner89]

Haha as i type this message ive got one of the Adebayors brothers wristband on...

When i was in the duomo centre there was no trouble atall, a bit of roudyness but nothing out of order. I was fortunate not to whitness any racial abuse whilst in milan.

[QuartzGooner]

Sorry Cus but Board of Deputies of British Jews and police figures released show anti Semitism is on the rise in the UK. Has been rising since 2000 with the Second Intifada a spur for increase in attacks on people and damage to property.
Is rising throughout Europe particularly in France where Paris has violent attacks in greater frequency than we do..

One of these was where a Jewish PSG fan was attacked by other PSG fans and an off duty cop tried to help him out by firing his pistol in the air...but hit the Jewish guy who died.

Arsenal do not have such a situation but attitudes can get out of control quickly so always best to keep a check on sensibility and respect amongst all fans.

PSG are weird anyway..they have two firms..one White, one Black, and they sit at opposite ends of stadium and hate each other!

[GoonerJim]

I agree that there is no room for racism in any form. How can anyone say that calling someone y...os is not racist - of course it is.

The only way to stamp it out is to make an example of the morons who do this. It would be great to identify them and parade them around the stadium before a match and then evict them just as it started. They would be so embarrassed and every true Arsenal fan would know exactly who they were - would they dare to show their face again?

I also agree that acting like a yob in another country just let's down our team. Our team have to behave properly on the pitch and also have to behave appropriately in their private lives. If not they get slaughtered in the press. Why do some people let them down by behaving like this?

Obviously you werent there - if you were you would know there was hardly any trouble.

[Rainham Red]

Cus,Quartzgooner answered your question about anti-semitisim being on the increase.
On the question of cushy jails they are like hotels compared to what they were like 25 years ago.The reason there are suicides is that many of the inmates are not right in the head and have fragile personalities and some are preyed on by older tougher inmates.

[mymumlovescesc]

i'm afraid i think that using the line that other races/nationalities are racist just isn't good enough - we can only be responsible for what we do. and as for the 'you weren't there' line - that's true, but i'd be shocked to hear that any Arsenal fan/supporter (whatever) is racist full stop - it makes even less sense than anyone being racist and expressing such views. we're lucky we're not West Ham or Leeds, but i'd hope we'd keep it that way and let the scum bags know they're about as welcome Man U and their raping and pillaging!

[MK Gould]

miav72 - I think what I was trying to say, over several posts on the subject, was that I got to Milan at midday. Went from the San Siro to the Duomo Square and back again. And saw absolutely no trouble. It doesn't surprise me that there was the odd "incident", but lets get things in context. It was a noisy day, but quiet if you know what I mean.

As for individual racist attitudes - I hate to say it but that's life. None of us are perfect and we're all looking for an opportunity to put the other guy down. Appearance, colour, sexual orientation, accent, education - any excuse. We can make it less acceptable, but we're not machines. You can't just suck racism out of society overnight. And football is a place where people lose their inhibitions - you'd look pretty stupid singing your heart out in M&S! But don't be surprised if every so often, societies ills are revealed on the walk to the stadium.

[the_gooner89]

The whole racism issue is getting blown out of proportion. Bringing up stories like this just fuels the sitiuation and lets face it, these people dont need encouraging do they? lets be honest!!!

[Cus Geezer]

Sorry Cus but Board of Deputies of British Jews and police figures released show anti Semitism is on the rise in the UK. Has been rising since 2000 with the Second Intifada a spur for increase in attacks on people and damage to property.

Well the Board of Deputies of British Jews coupled this observation by blaming the BBC's "unrelenting anti-Israel bias", so is an attempt to stifle valid criticism of Israel.

Much of the attacks on Jews have come from British muslims which covers about 2% of the British population, therefore doesn't indicate a rising tide of anti-semitism throughout the UK.

It also doesn't cover the vast majority of people who attend Arsenal matches, who tend to be middle class people from the home counties, i.e. Middle England. In their circles anti-semitism isn't rising, it's been at historically low levels - as is anti-semitism in general - it may be slightly higher than it was in the 1990s but I'd very much doubt higher than pre-1970s and going even further back to the immediate post war and pre war years.

Therefore people's continuance to spout stuff about **** is Arsenal specific and not one we can pass off on 'society'.

The reason there are suicides is that many of the inmates are not right in the head and have fragile personalities and some are preyed on by older tougher inmates.

Well do tell us the name of any hotels you know of where people are preyed on by older tougher guests so we know where to aviod staying.

[Rainham Red]

hotels to avoid

What I`m trying to say is prisons are no longer a deterent to professional criminals.
As for your remark about hotels to avoid I once stayed in one which made Belson look like the Ritz

[Cus Geezer]

hotels to avoid

What I`m trying to say is prisons are no longer a deterent to professional criminals.

Were prisons ever a deterent to professional criminals?

Prisons are universities are crime, people usually end up there because they're shit at being criminals. They learn a trick or two of the older lags and the lesson they learn is rather than not commit crime, don't get caught.

It's always been the way.