As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
rodders999 wrote:I hate what Wenger and the yanks are doing to my club, it's destroying me. Never have I felt such a disconnect to The Arsenal. It's been my life for 30 odd years but now I just feel drained, death by a thousand paper cuts at the hands of the inept morons running (ruining) our club from the top down. Utterly, utterly depressing
You're not alone Rodders...it just fills me with dismay...I wonder why I keep on even daring to consider things might change. It reaches a point where being angry does nothing but give indigestion and then the absolute horror of it going on and on and on...just drives me beyond depression and I end up just thinking 'fuck it'....I don't care any more..
rodders999 wrote:I hate what Wenger and the yanks are doing to my club, it's destroying me. Never have I felt such a disconnect to The Arsenal. It's been my life for 30 odd years but now I just feel drained, death by a thousand paper cuts at the hands of the inept morons running (ruining) our club from the top down. Utterly, utterly depressing
You're not alone Rodders...it just fills me with dismay...I wonder why I keep on even daring to consider things might change. It reaches a point where being angry does nothing but give indigestion and then the absolute horror of it going on and on and on...just drives me beyond depression and I end up just thinking 'fuck it'....I don't care any more..
me too mate almost exactly what i said on the previous page
Personally I commend rvp's decision to leave in search of success and I absolutely believe that he is making the right decision for his own career BUT I am absolutely disgusted and angry that he has been allowed to dictate about his refusal to travel on the club tour to asia This will of course weaken our bargaining position with potential bidders but more importantly, he is contracted to us and until such time as a club puts a deal on the table that is acceptable to all concerned then he should be made to honour that contract without exception. I dont care if he is fit enough to play much in asia because he should still be made to continue his pre season training with the rest of the team, a team that the last time I checked he was still captaining
It is time this club grew a pair and stood up to all concerned - tell rvp that he can go but only when a reasonable acceptable offer is on the table and 15m is not enough
augie wrote:Personally I commend rvp's decision to leave in search of success and I absolutely believe that he is making the right decision for his own career BUT I am absolutely disgusted and angry that he has been allowed to dictate about his refusal to travel on the club tour to asia This will of course weaken our bargaining position with potential bidders but more importantly, he is contracted to us and until such time as a club puts a deal on the table that is acceptable to all concerned then he should be made to honour that contract without exception. I dont care if he is fit enough to play much in asia because he should still be made to continue his pre season training with the rest of the team, a team that the last time I checked he was still captaining
It is time this club grew a pair and stood up to all concerned - tell rvp that he can go but only when a reasonable acceptable offer is on the table and 15m is not enough
I suppose they could argue that his presence would be a distraction.
If it's true..how can a professional footballer on a contract refuse to or be allowed to refuse to go on a pre-season tour. ???
What the f**k is happening to Arsenal..every day it gets worse.
Much was made of Van Persie not being in the catalog ...in reality Arsenal FC is a catalog in itself..real clubs with ambition pick the best that's available of our self sustaining shelves.
Van Persie should be on that plane tomorrow or in Boreham Wood today. He is an Arsenal player until Arsenal decide otherwise or until Summer 2013.
It makes me chuckle when people put the sole blame on one person, i.e. in this case, Wenger.
The whole ethos of the club from the owner, to the directors, to the CEO is rotten to the core.
You can't simply put the blame at the manager's door when the owner and the board of directors are pushing for the club to go into the direction it is headed. In a time like this we need the owner to pull his finger out, break his silence and come out and either use his power to keep RVP at the club, or to at least get in a suitable replacement if he does leave. We need the fuckers on the board to firstly, either say "right we will let him leave if he wants but we will get another quality player in" or to show their ambition to RVP and make him stay, and secondly, to sit down and have a long hard think about how this club is going to start being great again.
Fuck all this self-sustainability bullshit. If they are serious about making challenges for trophies the whole club needs to re-evaluate it's objectives. That will only start from the very top and not just the manager. Still i suppose it is just easier to say "Wenger out"....
MM99 the thing is Wenger is in it up to his neck with the owner and board. He has enough clout at the club and in world football if he was unhappy with things to say im out..... but he doesnt, why? because he has this utopian idea of football being fair and it isnt. You move with the times or get left behind and while we make cash the shareholders who dont give a fuck about what goes on on the pitch are happy and Mr. Wenger can carry on in his dream world and we are being left behind
MM99 wrote:It makes me chuckle when people put the sole blame on one person, i.e. in this case, Wenger.
The whole ethos of the club from the owner, to the directors, to the CEO is rotten to the core.
You can't simply put the blame at the manager's door when the owner and the board of directors are pushing for the club to go into the direction it is headed. In a time like this we need the owner to pull his finger out, break his silence and come out and either use his power to keep RVP at the club, or to at least get in a suitable replacement if he does leave. We need the fuckers on the board to firstly, either say "right we will let him leave if he wants but we will get another quality player in" or to show their ambition to RVP and make him stay, and secondly, to sit down and have a long hard think about how this club is going to start being great again.
Fuck all this self-sustainability bullshit. If they are serious about making challenges for trophies the whole club needs to re-evaluate it's objectives. That will only start from the very top and not just the manager. Still i suppose it is just easier to say "Wenger out"....
The one man who could expose the board is Wenger, but he won't because he too is lining his pockets at the expense of both success and the fans.
Wenger is a conniving liar, a willing puppet and fall guy for the board.
flash gunner wrote:MM99 the thing is Wenger is in it up to his neck with the owner and board. He has enough clout at the club and in world football if he was unhappy with things to say im out..... but he doesnt, why? because he has this utopian idea of football being fair and it isnt. You move with the times or get left behind and while we make cash the shareholders who dont give a fuck about what goes on on the pitch are happy and Mr. Wenger can carry on in his dream world and we are being left behind
It shouldn't be his responsibility to tell the board how to do their jobs even if he does have enough clout. Let's hold him accountable for his failings on the playing side and his tactics. That's fair enough. Maybe he doesn't make waves or say 'im out' because he would rather stay at Arsenal than move to another club. Either way why should it be him that puts his head in the guillotine? I probably wouldn't either if i was on the amount that he is and in his position, no matter how much i disagreed with my boss.
The bottom line is that the board of directors and the owner are responsible for determining the objectives, direction and success of the club, not the manager. Wenger should be held accountable for his footballing decisions, but should not take the flak off of the owner and the board.
Has anyone ever considered that Wenger doesn't want to rock the boat as he's an Arsenal man? Certainly he would have been aware of the financial restrictions on him, but the fact he offered to resign when Dein went shows he does have the balls to stand up to things he doesn't see as right.
No doubt he's got problems, but I agree that it is not just his thought.
flash gunner wrote:MM99 the thing is Wenger is in it up to his neck with the owner and board. He has enough clout at the club and in world football if he was unhappy with things to say im out..... but he doesnt, why? because he has this utopian idea of football being fair and it isnt. You move with the times or get left behind and while we make cash the shareholders who dont give a fuck about what goes on on the pitch are happy and Mr. Wenger can carry on in his dream world and we are being left behind
It shouldn't be his responsibility to tell the board how to do their jobs even if he does have enough clout. Let's hold him accountable for his failings on the playing side and his tactics. That's fair enough. Maybe he doesn't make waves or say 'im out' because he would rather stay at Arsenal than move to another club. Either way why should it be him that puts his head in the guillotine? I probably wouldn't either if i was on the amount that he is and in his position, no matter how much i disagreed with my boss.
The bottom line is that the board of directors and the owner are responsible for determining the objectives, direction and success of the club, not the manager. Wenger should be held accountable for his footballing decisions, but should not take the flak off of the owner and the board.
Dont you think if he disagreed with the direction of the club he would do something about it? Its not like me and you were we need our jobs to pay the mortgage or feed the kids..... he is risking everything on it? His reputation is getting lower by the season, He COULD stop it and lets face it this isnt a new thing Kroenke has carried on the same mantra that the previous owners of the club had. When asked what he would do with £50 million to spend 2 years back Wenger said 'i'd hand it back' and this was before Kroenke. Wenger is as culpable with the demise of Arsenal as anyone at the club top to bottom
Wenger speaking out and leaving isn't like the rest of us doing the same. The guy is a millionaire, and would walk into a number of top level club and national jobs. He wouldn't be taking the same risks.
flash gunner wrote:MM99 the thing is Wenger is in it up to his neck with the owner and board. He has enough clout at the club and in world football if he was unhappy with things to say im out..... but he doesnt, why? because he has this utopian idea of football being fair and it isnt. You move with the times or get left behind and while we make cash the shareholders who dont give a fuck about what goes on on the pitch are happy and Mr. Wenger can carry on in his dream world and we are being left behind
It shouldn't be his responsibility to tell the board how to do their jobs even if he does have enough clout. Let's hold him accountable for his failings on the playing side and his tactics. That's fair enough. Maybe he doesn't make waves or say 'im out' because he would rather stay at Arsenal than move to another club. Either way why should it be him that puts his head in the guillotine? I probably wouldn't either if i was on the amount that he is and in his position, no matter how much i disagreed with my boss.
The bottom line is that the board of directors and the owner are responsible for determining the objectives, direction and success of the club, not the manager. Wenger should be held accountable for his footballing decisions, but should not take the flak off of the owner and the board.
Dont you think if he disagreed with the direction of the club he would do something about it? Its not like me and you were we need our jobs to pay the mortgage or feed the kids..... he is risking everything on it? His reputation is getting lower by the season, He COULD stop it and lets face it this isnt a new thing Kroenke has carried on the same mantra that the previous owners of the club had. When asked what he would do with £50 million to spend 2 years back
Wenger said 'i'd hand it back' and this was before Kroenke. Wenger is as culpable with the demise of Arsenal as anyone at the club top to bottom
His reputation has gotten lower certainly in the eyes of many Arsenal fans but generally in the footballing world he's still regarded as a world class coach and many teams would still employ him. Managers all over the world are constantly finding new jobs even ifthey've performed poorly in their previous and in all honesty Wenger would be employed by a number of big clubs/national sides if he was to leave tomorrow. So in that regards it doesn't really affect him whether a few posters on the online gooner think he's past it as he could easily land another top job tomorrow.
The £50m again comes back to my previous point that if the whole ethos of the club is "self-sustainability" and promoting this idea that we will only live within our means, and this is drummed out at every opportunity, by the owner, by the directors, by the CEO; then why would you expect the manager to come out and say otherwise?
Flash, if you held a high profile role in your company and your company had been constantly harping on about a core value that they marketed, (let's face it Arsenal do try and market the fact that we are the only 'big' club that is self reliable), and that core value was seen an integral part of your company's future, would you come out in the national papers and go against that? If the message of Arsenal Football Club is one of self-sutainability and not spending big money then what message would it send if the manager went against that publically and said he would spend 50m on a single player if given the chance? Of course he's going to say he'd give it back as its not 'the arsenal way' of doing things. In the same way you see cabinet ministers desperately trying to defend the policies of their government even if they don't agree with them, Wenger will toe the line for his employers. It's naive to think he would come out and contradict them. Like i said before anyway, it's not his responsibility to be making those decisions. That lies with the owner and the board of directors.
I dont doubt Wenger could get another job elsewhere and that only backs up my thoughts on why does he stay if he is being held back by policies made above him?????
Another thing is in this hypothetical situation where i were a millionaire and was high up in an organsiation but were being held back from moving the company on by that organisation i would have NO hesitation in leaving especially if i could stroll into any other job i wanted within my field and didnt have to worry about the mortgage or food for the kids.....
When you consider the above Wenger HAS to be in it with Kroenke and the board, why would he stay? there is virtually no reasons
SPARKSY wrote:Why does it feel a whole lot worse if VP was to go to United?
We stopped being rivals many years ago but as much as it gets up your nose if he goes to City, United would be a whole lot worse?
Not sure why really.
Try living in Ireland and listening to the *word censored* who know sweet fuck all about football but are United till they die
It reaches a point where being angry does nothing but give indigestion and then the absolute horror of it going on and on and on...just drives me beyond depression and I end up just thinking 'fuck it'....I don't care any more..
