THE WENGER THREAD

[I Hate Hleb]

DB the worst about the Highbury flats was they could have sold them all prior to them being built,and then the whole financial structure of the loan could have been altered leaving us in a far better financial position than we are today , but Fizman held on trying as always to squeeze the last ounce out of the deal and held back on further sales as the market went up !

I remember a certain american individual advocating such a policy and getting slaughtered. Wonder where he is now? I for one miss his input. It's all DB10's fault!!

[OneBardGooner]

My belief of the situation is that the move from Highbury was largely based on the projected income from the luxury flats at the old stadium and new homes which are being built now. Now if the real income from these ventures falls below the level that was expect at the top end of the housing boom then the club will not realise the funds it hoped to obtain.

I'm not putting this forward as an excuse but it was how I think it was sold to us.

To a certain extent I think you are right GG. The Board anticipated a huge return on the flats and didn't foresee the economic downturn. But that is something that really irks me - they risked the mid to long term future of the team's chances of competing on a housing venture, when history shows that economies based on the housing market go in cycles of boom and subsequent collapse. The Board are as guilty in their area of responsibility as the bankers that fucked all our economies through their own greed and reliance upon risk.

Nobody did (foresee the econiomic downturn) well n obody except blahblahtunde - I mean he knows 'everything' well of course being a teenager he would wouldn't he!

[kiwomya]

Wenger and the owners have allowed us to become a grade B club, charging grade A prices. The overselling of the stadium move was unforgiveable in my view. Chelsea were a known force when that stadium move was planned and United were already richer, so to my mind the one change on English football's landscape has been Manchester City.

The stadium was planned WELL in advance of Chelsea winning the Russian lottery mate. How could anyone have ever thought they would spend like that?

[Vinny1967]

Wenger and the owners have allowed us to become a grade B club, charging grade A prices. The overselling of the stadium move was unforgiveable in my view. Chelsea were a known force when that stadium move was planned and United were already richer, so to my mind the one change on English football's landscape has been Manchester City.

The stadium was planned WELL in advance of Chelsea winning the Russian lottery mate. How could anyone have ever thought they would spend like that?

Correct.
Abrahamovich bought Chelsea in 2003 and Arsenal applied for planning in 2000 having started planning for same in 1997.

[SteveO 35]

Wenger and the owners have allowed us to become a grade B club, charging grade A prices. The overselling of the stadium move was unforgiveable in my view. Chelsea were a known force when that stadium move was planned and United were already richer, so to my mind the one change on English football's landscape has been Manchester City.

The stadium was planned WELL in advance of Chelsea winning the Russian lottery mate. How could anyone have ever thought they would spend like that?

Correct.
Abrahamovich bought Chelsea in 2003 and Arsenal applied for planning in 2000 having started planning for same in 1997.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. Yes, the planning process had started but the buy up of all the Ashburton Grove estate from individual property owners / businesses had certainly not taken place, and there were still a lot of planning hoops that had to be confirmed and various appeals in play by local residents well into the 2003/04 season when Abramovich was already in play. He spent over £100m in his first season.

The club still had time to abort the project if they deemed it too risky. Sure some cash would have been spent on planning and fees but the land that had been purchased would have still held value in that area. They certainly did not have all the debt finalised, nor were they committed to the most significant stage of expenditure

[Vinny1967]

Wenger and the owners have allowed us to become a grade B club, charging grade A prices. The overselling of the stadium move was unforgiveable in my view. Chelsea were a known force when that stadium move was planned and United were already richer, so to my mind the one change on English football's landscape has been Manchester City.

The stadium was planned WELL in advance of Chelsea winning the Russian lottery mate. How could anyone have ever thought they would spend like that?

Correct.
Abrahamovich bought Chelsea in 2003 and Arsenal applied for planning in 2000 having started planning for same in 1997.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. Yes, the planning process had started but the buy up of all the Ashburton Grove estate from individual property owners / businesses had certainly not taken place, and there were still a lot of planning hoops that had to be confirmed and various appeals in play by local residents well into the 2003/04 season when Abramovich was already in play. He spent over £100m in his first season.

The club still had time to abort the project if they deemed it too risky. Sure some cash would have been spent on planning and fees but the land that had been purchased would have still held value in that area. They certainly did not have all the debt finalised, nor were they committed to the most significant stage of expenditure

Am not sure of the exact time scale Steve but if memory serves we put off turning the sod in 2003 due to refinancing for the project so I would have thought a lot of the properties would have been purchased by then. Am not sure. According to Wiki construction work started in Feb 2004. Either way I think it was a project worth pursuing and puts us ahead of a lot of other clubs. While I don't think we see the benefits now, we will in the future. As for the economic downturn. there were a hell of a lot of very bright people did not see that coming so I don't think the club or anyone there are necessarily at fault for not seeing this coming. Just unfortunate timing.

[SteveO 35]

Well we are where we are with it now, and I agree that the club could not have envisaged the economic collapse to the extent that it happened......anymore than the executives running Lehman Brothers or many other businesses around the world

In many ways the stadium move was very bold commercially - which makes me wonder now having taken that bold step, that the club has retreated into its shell. This happened before Kroenke's takeover. Debt relative to earnings is pretty moderate even by today's standards

We knew that Manchester United would always be a threat. Personally I think we knew Chelsea were a threat when we pushed through with the refinancing of the club in 2005, so my argument is that domestically only Manchester City's emergence has really changed the landscape. Spurs and Liverpool are still where they are - arguably worse off because they both envisaged stadium moves would be well underway by now and are running into huge problems. The Mickeys have suffered a couple of lost years under Gillett and Hicks too in that time. I think we could have pushed well ahead of those two had we reinvested only 50m-80m over the past 2 years, to the extent that the top 4 was a closed shop once more (albeit with different entrants).

I really think with our earnings stream we should be positioning ourselves up squadwise to be 15-20 points clear of the 5th placed club. 3 players of 15-20m each this Summer would have made that a certainty

[Vinny1967]

Well we are where we are with it now, and I agree that the club could not have envisaged the economic collapse to the extent that it happened......anymore than the executives running Lehman Brothers or many other businesses around the world

In many ways the stadium move was very bold commercially - which makes me wonder now having taken that bold step, that the club has retreated into its shell. This happened before Kroenke's takeover. Debt relative to earnings is pretty moderate even by today's standards

We knew that Manchester United would always be a threat. Personally I think we knew Chelsea were a threat when we pushed through with the refinancing of the club in 2005, so my argument is that domestically only Manchester City's emergence has really changed the landscape. Spurs and Liverpool are still where they are - arguably worse off because they both envisaged stadium moves would be well underway by now and are running into huge problems. The Mickeys have suffered a couple of lost years under Gillett and Hicks too in that time. I think we could have pushed well ahead of those two had we reinvested only 50m-80m over the past 2 years, to the extent that the top 4 was a closed shop once more (albeit with different entrants).

I really think with our earnings stream we should be positioning ourselves up squadwise to be 15-20 points clear of the 5th placed club. 3 players of 15-20m each this Summer would have made that a certainty

Yeah I agree it was a pretty bold move and our debt is very manageable from what I have read. (On this issue would it be an idea for a thread on our finances as I read posts by Quartz and others that seem very knowledgeable on this issue and it might be an idea to share this knowledge so simpletons like me could understand them more, Might do some research myself).

I read on RAWK that Liverpool have already spent over 50 million on plans for a new stadium and that is without purchasing any premises/properties. Am not sure how true that is. Either way I would guess that with construction starting in Feb 2004, we would have lost a large amount of monies if we had of shelved the project based on Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea 7 months previously. Am not sure I agree with you about foreseeing what he has done since as being foreseeable but it is arguable.

I'm feeling pretty confident that we could compete for the championship this season if we are lucky with injuries. With JW due back I think we could have a midfield at least as good as anyone else in the League and if our defence continue to show the same organisation and workrate we could compete. What worries me is upfront as I think we are short. A lot depends on Giroud and if he fails or gets injured we are left with Cham/Pod or Feo. Taking Pod from the middle may effect us as I'm loving his workrate and physicality.

[OneBardGooner]

Well we are where we are with it now, and I agree that the club could not have envisaged the economic collapse to the extent that it happened......anymore than the executives running Lehman Brothers or many other businesses around the world

In many ways the stadium move was very bold commercially - which makes me wonder now having taken that bold step, that the club has retreated into its shell. This happened before Kroenke's takeover. Debt relative to earnings is pretty moderate even by today's standards

We knew that Manchester United would always be a threat. Personally I think we knew Chelsea were a threat when we pushed through with the refinancing of the club in 2005, so my argument is that domestically only Manchester City's emergence has really changed the landscape. Spurs and Liverpool are still where they are - arguably worse off because they both envisaged stadium moves would be well underway by now and are running into huge problems. The Mickeys have suffered a couple of lost years under Gillett and Hicks too in that time. I think we could have pushed well ahead of those two had we reinvested only 50m-80m over the past 2 years, to the extent that the top 4 was a closed shop once more (albeit with different entrants).

I really think with our earnings stream we should be positioning ourselves up squadwise to be 15-20 points clear of the 5th placed club. 3 players of 15-20m each this Summer would have made that a certainty

Yeah I agree it was a pretty bold move and our debt is very manageable from what I have read. (On this issue would it be an idea for a thread on our finances as I read posts by Quartz and others that seem very knowledgeable on this issue and it might be an idea to share this knowledge so simpletons like me could understand them more, Might do some research myself).

I read on RAWK that Liverpool have already spent over 50 million on plans for a new stadium and that is without purchasing any premises/properties. Am not sure how true that is. Either way I would guess that with construction starting in Feb 2004, we would have lost a large amount of monies if we had of shelved the project based on Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea 7 months previously. Am not sure I agree with you about foreseeing what he has done since as being foreseeable but it is arguable.

I'm feeling pretty confident that we could compete for the championship this season if we are lucky with injuries. With JW due back I think we could have a midfield at least as good as anyone else in the League and if our defence continue to show the same organisation and workrate we could compete. What worries me is upfront as I think we are short. A lot depends on Giroud and if he fails or gets injured we are left with Cham/Pod or Feo. Taking Pod from the middle may effect us as I'm loving his workrate and physicality.

Agree. I know he has yet to score/take his chances etc - But if he does settle in - which would make that a three out of three for AW - Then he could be a real asset...just needs a good goal to cement his confidence...it'll come....fingers crossed.

[MyOldMan]

Interesting to look at this thread I started 4 years ago.Only RVP showing form last season has changed

[defleppardisking]

4 yrs has gone by and my thinking still remains the same. WENGER OUT!!!!!!!!

[augie]

Four fcuking seasons ago we had the same genuine issue's in central midfield that we do today and yet there are still some that demand wenger gets our unconditional support cos to do otherwise is a show of not supporting the club

[Babatunde]

I read an interview with Cristiano Ronaldo this morning and when asked about moving to Citeh he said quote:
'I would never ever join them, especially knowing everything that Alex Ferguson has done for my career and everything I won in Manchester.'

Ferguson inspires that in his players.
Wenger on the other hand, inspires contempt to the extent his players don't think twice about buggering off before they've won anythig with him. He is a complete joke and this Arsenal squad mark my words, is even weaker than last season. It's going to take a Podolski/Chesney/Cazorla injury to expose the brittle underbelly of shite this imposter has assembled.

WENGER OUT.

8 years, no trophies, still a tactical imbecile, as Augie said the exact same issues 4 years on.
He sold Arsenal's last world-class player to Man United!
He's continued to make cash for the board by selling Nasri, Fabregas etc.
He lies to the fans on a constant basis. No respect for the fans who pay his inflated wage.
Could go on.

Wenger OUT

[supergeorgegraham]

You have to admit that many players praise Wenger for what he did for their career but this selling players has made a huge difference.
I dont think any manager would improve on what we are doing unless we had a new owner. Look at Liverpool.
Also big signings are not always the answers.
Carrol 32 Million = Fail
Torres 50 Million = Fail
5 or 6 City big signings = Fail

[DB10GOONER]

Well we are where we are with it now, and I agree that the club could not have envisaged the economic collapse to the extent that it happened......anymore than the executives running Lehman Brothers or many other businesses around the world

In many ways the stadium move was very bold commercially - which makes me wonder now having taken that bold step, that the club has retreated into its shell. This happened before Kroenke's takeover. Debt relative to earnings is pretty moderate even by today's standards

We knew that Manchester United would always be a threat. Personally I think we knew Chelsea were a threat when we pushed through with the refinancing of the club in 2005, so my argument is that domestically only Manchester City's emergence has really changed the landscape. Spurs and Liverpool are still where they are - arguably worse off because they both envisaged stadium moves would be well underway by now and are running into huge problems. The Mickeys have suffered a couple of lost years under Gillett and Hicks too in that time. I think we could have pushed well ahead of those two had we reinvested only 50m-80m over the past 2 years, to the extent that the top 4 was a closed shop once more (albeit with different entrants).

I really think with our earnings stream we should be positioning ourselves up squadwise to be 15-20 points clear of the 5th placed club. 3 players of 15-20m each this Summer would have made that a certainty

Yeah I agree it was a pretty bold move and our debt is very manageable from what I have read. (On this issue would it be an idea for a thread on our finances as I read posts by Quartz and others that seem very knowledgeable on this issue and it might be an idea to share this knowledge so simpletons like me could understand them more, Might do some research myself).I read on RAWK that Liverpool have already spent over 50 million on plans for a new stadium and that is without purchasing any premises/properties. Am not sure how true that is. Either way I would guess that with construction starting in Feb 2004, we would have lost a large amount of monies if we had of shelved the project based on Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea 7 months previously. Am not sure I agree with you about foreseeing what he has done since as being foreseeable but it is arguable.

I'm feeling pretty confident that we could compete for the championship this season if we are lucky with injuries. With JW due back I think we could have a midfield at least as good as anyone else in the League and if our defence continue to show the same organisation and workrate we could compete. What worries me is upfront as I think we are short. A lot depends on Giroud and if he fails or gets injured we are left with Cham/Pod or Feo. Taking Pod from the middle may effect us as I'm loving his workrate and physicality.

NOT a good idea. We had a financial thread on here before and it was utter shite. Too many ITK's that actually knew fuck all pontificating about stuff they knew fuck all about. A kúnt to moderate too.