AST - Perks of the job

[RoscommonGooner]

Fuck off




Just kidding Tim. Welcome, now that wasn't hard, was it?

[arseofacrow]

Apology accepted Tim.

[flash gunner]

Apology accepted Tim.

Welcome to the forum Tim. As you've said in your post we don't all agree as Gooners with the direction the club is going i cant argue with what you've written even though you seem a lot happier with things than i am.

[DB10GOONER]

Howdy. I thought there were some things I should clear up about the old box invitation via the club for the Sunderland game. I wasn't invited because of my membership of the AST. I was invited in my capacity as a blogger, hence the e mail that came to me from the club also went to other bloggers. And that's dandy with me, I'm not a politician and I'm not looking to be one either. I'm unclear on what position it is some of you think I "hold" with the AST, I'm a member. I turn up at the meetings and that's about it.

I've explained many times and I'll repeat it here, my membership is borne of my own curiosity mainly. Finding out a bit more about what goes on at the club, particularly with the financials. In turn, that helps me out with the blogging, gives me a bit more material, helps me to be a bit better informed and broaden my thinking about what goes on with the club. Being exposed to lots of different opinions and ways of thinking. Football writing means 1,000,000 times more to me than being thought of as any kind of politician or activist. I'm not and I never said I wanted to be. I'm sure that will draw an opening slew of insults in response, but sh*t the bed, you know sometimes some people in life think a bit differently to you. Shocking I know.

So I'm a bit confused as to why so many of you want to criticise me for not carrying out your work? If you want to take the club down from the inside or whatever else, cool, do it. Why do you rage at me for not doing it for you? Why just sit on computers behind anonymous aliases, tossing insults at people? Why not join up and get what you want on the agenda, or else just carry out the work you want to see done yourself? I really don't get it. It's a bit like raging at the Green Party for not getting tough on immigration.

Some points of correction in closing too in response to this and other threads. I've no intention of speaking for Tim Payton because he can do that for himself, but he's been a season ticket holder since 1983. If you actually talk to the guy, he's not exactly Arsene Wenger's number 1 fan. This is my 21st year as a season ticket holder. That's 3/4 of my life. I've been going to every away game for over ten years, that's over a third of my life. And I do very much remember Copenhagen 94 thank you. I was there. I'm not as old as many of you, it's true. But I don't have to answer to anyone about my "credentials." Arsenal has been in my family since before the first world war.

You also don't all have to assume that everyone's opinions fit rigidly into "Arsene Knows" or "Arsene Out." Some people are capable of being nuanced and flexible in their thinking. Not necessarily wanting him shot in Dial Square doesn't mean I regard him as an infallible deity. Far from it. At this stage, I don't really think he should be sacked (yet), but I'm not convinced I'd give him another contract after this one either. With Gazidis, personally I think the 2014 is the ultimate judgement point for him, but I haven't really made my mind up on him yet. Just my personal viewpoint, I hold no beef with anyone that thinks differently. I don't and have never deigned to speak for anyone other than myself. Dividing people's opinions so rigidly across certain lines does any discussion a disservice, it does you a disservice too because it prevents you from digesting any kind of point. Basically, there's some shit the club does well, there's some shit the club does not so well. Not everyone is an extremist.

The bottom line is that if there is one thing I really am sick and tired of, it's Arsenal fans trying to fight each other and cause divisions. I know most of you are as hardcore as they come and love the club dearly and want what's best for it. That's what I want too. We might disagree on how that should happen (though probably not as radically as some of you have allowed yourselves to believe based on this caricature you've built up of me). But fuck it, you're entitled to think whatever you want and I'm entitled to the same. That's life, like I said, people have different opinions sometimes. Hopefully they can express them without being misquoted or insulted.

You don't have to like me, I don't give much of a shit whether you do or not. If you think I'm a prick, cool, that's up to you. I would appreciate it if, as happened on another thread, my missus wasn't insulted. I'm not sure how that's constructive but it is bang out of order because she's never said or done a thing to any of you. I totally recognise, having read it back, that I came off as a bit of a knob on the "ArsenalFCnotPlc" thread on Vital Arsenal. I stand by the questions and criticisms I raised, but see in retrospect I could have raised them in a much more cordial manner. So you have my apologies, not for what I said, but certainly how I said it. But balls to it, if you want to keep coating me off from this point, be my guest. I've said my piece now. I recognise I put my opinions out there and taking the flack is all part of it, which I accept. But do leave my loved ones out of it if you would be so kind and hopefully I've been able to correct some of your misconceptions. UTA.

Welcome to the forum. Good post, mate. This forum, much the same as every interweb forum I’d imagine, has its share of extremist posters. Alot of stuff posted on here is also “off-the-cuff” or posted for effect, so try not to take the more extremist insults too seriously.

We are also actively working to cut down the amount of personal abuse on here.

I accept your position that you aren’t trying to represent anyone by being a member of AST. But I would say that if someone nominates themselves for a position whereby they are “in effect” representing other Gooners without being asked to do so, they do make a rod for their own back. I’m not accusing you of this as I don’t know you, but I’m sure you have come across the type of “superfan” I’m referring to.

Would also say that everyone is entitled to an opinion and that they do not have to join the AST or any organisation to have their opinion validated. Some people are joiners some aren’t.

Broader reading of this forum will demonstrate that we are not all of the Wenger is a brigade. There are people here that want him gone, there are those that want him to stay because he is Jesus Christ incarnate, there are those that admit he has got it wrong but still want him to stay, there are those that hate him, there are those (like me) that love him, respect what he has achieved for us but now want him gone as he has stagnated over the last 7 seasons and we need a new man in there with new ideas.

A good mix. It just seems that sometimes the loudest, most extreme voices are all that’s heard on this forum but they are not representative of all members here.

[Little Dutch]

Howdy. I thought there were some things I should clear up about the old box invitation via the club for the Sunderland game. I wasn't invited because of my membership of the AST. I was invited in my capacity as a blogger, hence the e mail that came to me from the club also went to other bloggers. And that's dandy with me, I'm not a politician and I'm not looking to be one either. I'm unclear on what position it is some of you think I "hold" with the AST, I'm a member. I turn up at the meetings and that's about it.

I've explained many times and I'll repeat it here, my membership is borne of my own curiosity mainly. Finding out a bit more about what goes on at the club, particularly with the financials. In turn, that helps me out with the blogging, gives me a bit more material, helps me to be a bit better informed and broaden my thinking about what goes on with the club. Being exposed to lots of different opinions and ways of thinking. Football writing means 1,000,000 times more to me than being thought of as any kind of politician or activist. I'm not and I never said I wanted to be. I'm sure that will draw an opening slew of insults in response, but sh*t the bed, you know sometimes some people in life think a bit differently to you. Shocking I know.

So I'm a bit confused as to why so many of you want to criticise me for not carrying out your work? If you want to take the club down from the inside or whatever else, cool, do it. Why do you rage at me for not doing it for you? Why just sit on computers behind anonymous aliases, tossing insults at people? Why not join up and get what you want on the agenda, or else just carry out the work you want to see done yourself? I really don't get it. It's a bit like raging at the Green Party for not getting tough on immigration.

Some points of correction in closing too in response to this and other threads. I've no intention of speaking for Tim Payton because he can do that for himself, but he's been a season ticket holder since 1983. If you actually talk to the guy, he's not exactly Arsene Wenger's number 1 fan. This is my 21st year as a season ticket holder. That's 3/4 of my life. I've been going to every away game for over ten years, that's over a third of my life. And I do very much remember Copenhagen 94 thank you. I was there. I'm not as old as many of you, it's true. But I don't have to answer to anyone about my "credentials." Arsenal has been in my family since before the first world war.

You also don't all have to assume that everyone's opinions fit rigidly into "Arsene Knows" or "Arsene Out." Some people are capable of being nuanced and flexible in their thinking. Not necessarily wanting him shot in Dial Square doesn't mean I regard him as an infallible deity. Far from it. At this stage, I don't really think he should be sacked (yet), but I'm not convinced I'd give him another contract after this one either. With Gazidis, personally I think the 2014 is the ultimate judgement point for him, but I haven't really made my mind up on him yet. Just my personal viewpoint, I hold no beef with anyone that thinks differently. I don't and have never deigned to speak for anyone other than myself. Dividing people's opinions so rigidly across certain lines does any discussion a disservice, it does you a disservice too because it prevents you from digesting any kind of point. Basically, there's some shit the club does well, there's some shit the club does not so well. Not everyone is an extremist.

The bottom line is that if there is one thing I really am sick and tired of, it's Arsenal fans trying to fight each other and cause divisions. I know most of you are as hardcore as they come and love the club dearly and want what's best for it. That's what I want too. We might disagree on how that should happen (though probably not as radically as some of you have allowed yourselves to believe based on this caricature you've built up of me). But fuck it, you're entitled to think whatever you want and I'm entitled to the same. That's life, like I said, people have different opinions sometimes. Hopefully they can express them without being misquoted or insulted.

You don't have to like me, I don't give much of a shit whether you do or not. If you think I'm a prick, cool, that's up to you. I would appreciate it if, as happened on another thread, my missus wasn't insulted. I'm not sure how that's constructive but it is bang out of order because she's never said or done a thing to any of you. I totally recognise, having read it back, that I came off as a bit of a knob on the "ArsenalFCnotPlc" thread on Vital Arsenal. I stand by the questions and criticisms I raised, but see in retrospect I could have raised them in a much more cordial manner. So you have my apologies, not for what I said, but certainly how I said it. But balls to it, if you want to keep coating me off from this point, be my guest. I've said my piece now. I recognise I put my opinions out there and taking the flack is all part of it, which I accept. But do leave my loved ones out of it if you would be so kind and hopefully I've been able to correct some of your misconceptions. UTA.

Welcome to the forum. Good post, mate. This forum, much the same as every interweb forum I’d imagine, has its share of extremist posters. Alot of stuff posted on here is also “off-the-cuff” or posted for effect, so try not to take the more extremist insults too seriously.

We are also actively working to cut down the amount of personal abuse on here.

I accept your position that you aren’t trying to represent anyone by being a member of AST. But I would say that if someone nominates themselves for a position whereby they are “in effect” representing other Gooners without being asked to do so, they do make a rod for their own back. I’m not accusing you of this as I don’t know you, but I’m sure you have come across the type of “superfan” I’m referring to.

Would also say that everyone is entitled to an opinion and that they do not have to join the AST or any organisation to have their opinion validated. Some people are joiners some aren’t.

Broader reading of this forum will demonstrate that we are not all of the Wenger is a brigade. There are people here that want him gone, there are those that want him to stay because he is Jesus Christ incarnate, there are those that admit he has got it wrong but still want him to stay, there are those that hate him, there are those (like me) that love him, respect what he has achieved for us but now want him gone as he has stagnated over the last 7 seasons and we need a new man in there with new ideas.

A good mix. It just seems that sometimes the loudest, most extreme voices are all that’s heard on this forum but they are not representative of all members here.

I've not nominated myself for anything. Nor am I of the opinion that membership of the AST validates anyone's opinion one way or the other. In fact, I've never breathed a word in a meeting myself. Whether or not people want to join is totally up to them and I've never made the slightest inference otherwise. Those that think otherwise have completely misconceived and I'm not responsible for that. I'd been blogging for over 5 years by the time I joined up, I didn't join in an attempt to make my opinion feel more weighted or give it more kudos in my own mind. Like I said, I wanted to learn a bit more and expose myself to different opinions too.

Alls I'm saying is that the AST represents its membership through survey, frankly, I think of you're not in it, you needn't worry about what's being said because it doesn't represent you. So I don't think there's much need to get angry. If it still makes you angry after that, you can join and get your own input. It's the same with a lot of things, you can either get in on it or you can just ignore it. I wouldn't advise anyone to do either really, it's up to them. But sitting idly and getting angry isn't really that productive. Everyone's entitled to their opinions and that goes for the membership of the AST too.

[Deise Gooner]

See that's what irks people Tim when you there is no need to worry about the AST if your not a member as it doesn't represent you. Forgive me if I'm wrong but surely the point of it is to represent the wider views of all fans not just those who have the opportunity or time to join the AST. That is the kind of thing that smacks of somehow claiming to be a Superfan because they put in the time when others can't.

[flash gunner]

See that's what irks people Tim when you there is no need to worry about the AST if your not a member as it doesn't represent you. Forgive me if I'm wrong but surely the point of it is to represent the wider views of all fans not just those who have the opportunity or time to join the AST. That is the kind of thing that smacks of somehow claiming to be a Superfan because they put in the time when others can't.

I kind of understand what youre saying Deise but at the same time how can an organisation represent people that arent in that organisation? They cant represent EVERYONE and their views, there are probably 1001 different views on Wenger, the board and general 21st century Arsenal. They can only be expected to represent the views of their membership, surely?

[REB]

as tim pointed out on his post, he is a member but not in a comittee position so doesnt really have to come on here and explain himself or defend the AST. i asked him too on twitter and hopefully he might consider a thread explaining the merits and pros of joining the AST.but i guess if he did all he will get is more abuse from one or two on here and anyway
but im sure if people want to know anything they can go on the website for themselves.

[flash gunner]

Tim the link you posted on twitter of a thread off of here was over 3 months old and many of the people posting abuse have been dealt with, slightly unfair example of feelings towards you. I think the posts since your reply is a better representation of thoughts on here now

[Gunnersaurus]

Good post Tim and very few can argue with any of it.

I do wonder why the club are trying to keep the bloggers sweet though, I guess they are worried that the pen is mightier than the sword so to speak.

[REB]

Tim the link you posted on twitter of a thread off of here was over 3 months old and many of the people posting abuse have been dealt with, slightly unfair example of feelings towards you. I think the posts since your reply is a better representation of thoughts on here now

we went on a banning spree

we even like redaction thesedays

[Reg Niseth]

Howdy. I thought there were some things I should clear up about the old box invitation via the club for the Sunderland game. I wasn't invited because of my membership of the AST. I was invited in my capacity as a blogger, hence the e mail that came to me from the club also went to other bloggers. And that's dandy with me, I'm not a politician and I'm not looking to be one either. I'm unclear on what position it is some of you think I "hold" with the AST, I'm a member. I turn up at the meetings and that's about it.

I've explained many times and I'll repeat it here, my membership is borne of my own curiosity mainly. Finding out a bit more about what goes on at the club, particularly with the financials. In turn, that helps me out with the blogging, gives me a bit more material, helps me to be a bit better informed and broaden my thinking about what goes on with the club. Being exposed to lots of different opinions and ways of thinking. Football writing means 1,000,000 times more to me than being thought of as any kind of politician or activist. I'm not and I never said I wanted to be. I'm sure that will draw an opening slew of insults in response, but sh*t the bed, you know sometimes some people in life think a bit differently to you. Shocking I know.

So I'm a bit confused as to why so many of you want to criticise me for not carrying out your work? If you want to take the club down from the inside or whatever else, cool, do it. Why do you rage at me for not doing it for you? Why just sit on computers behind anonymous aliases, tossing insults at people? Why not join up and get what you want on the agenda, or else just carry out the work you want to see done yourself? I really don't get it. It's a bit like raging at the Green Party for not getting tough on immigration.

Some points of correction in closing too in response to this and other threads. I've no intention of speaking for Tim Payton because he can do that for himself, but he's been a season ticket holder since 1983. If you actually talk to the guy, he's not exactly Arsene Wenger's number 1 fan. This is my 21st year as a season ticket holder. That's 3/4 of my life. I've been going to every away game for over ten years, that's over a third of my life. And I do very much remember Copenhagen 94 thank you. I was there. I'm not as old as many of you, it's true. But I don't have to answer to anyone about my "credentials." Arsenal has been in my family since before the first world war.

You also don't all have to assume that everyone's opinions fit rigidly into "Arsene Knows" or "Arsene Out." Some people are capable of being nuanced and flexible in their thinking. Not necessarily wanting him shot in Dial Square doesn't mean I regard him as an infallible deity. Far from it. At this stage, I don't really think he should be sacked (yet), but I'm not convinced I'd give him another contract after this one either. With Gazidis, personally I think the 2014 is the ultimate judgement point for him, but I haven't really made my mind up on him yet. Just my personal viewpoint, I hold no beef with anyone that thinks differently. I don't and have never deigned to speak for anyone other than myself. Dividing people's opinions so rigidly across certain lines does any discussion a disservice, it does you a disservice too because it prevents you from digesting any kind of point. Basically, there's some shit the club does well, there's some shit the club does not so well. Not everyone is an extremist.

The bottom line is that if there is one thing I really am sick and tired of, it's Arsenal fans trying to fight each other and cause divisions. I know most of you are as hardcore as they come and love the club dearly and want what's best for it. That's what I want too. We might disagree on how that should happen (though probably not as radically as some of you have allowed yourselves to believe based on this caricature you've built up of me). But fuck it, you're entitled to think whatever you want and I'm entitled to the same. That's life, like I said, people have different opinions sometimes. Hopefully they can express them without being misquoted or insulted.

You don't have to like me, I don't give much of a shit whether you do or not. If you think I'm a prick, cool, that's up to you. I would appreciate it if, as happened on another thread, my missus wasn't insulted. I'm not sure how that's constructive but it is bang out of order because she's never said or done a thing to any of you. I totally recognise, having read it back, that I came off as a bit of a knob on the "ArsenalFCnotPlc" thread on Vital Arsenal. I stand by the questions and criticisms I raised, but see in retrospect I could have raised them in a much more cordial manner. So you have my apologies, not for what I said, but certainly how I said it. But balls to it, if you want to keep coating me off from this point, be my guest. I've said my piece now. I recognise I put my opinions out there and taking the flack is all part of it, which I accept. But do leave my loved ones out of it if you would be so kind and hopefully I've been able to correct some of your misconceptions. UTA.

Welcome to the forum. Good post, mate. This forum, much the same as every interweb forum I’d imagine, has its share of extremist posters. Alot of stuff posted on here is also “off-the-cuff” or posted for effect, so try not to take the more extremist insults too seriously.

We are also actively working to cut down the amount of personal abuse on here.

I accept your position that you aren’t trying to represent anyone by being a member of AST. But I would say that if someone nominates themselves for a position whereby they are “in effect” representing other Gooners without being asked to do so, they do make a rod for their own back. I’m not accusing you of this as I don’t know you, but I’m sure you have come across the type of “superfan” I’m referring to.

Would also say that everyone is entitled to an opinion and that they do not have to join the AST or any organisation to have their opinion validated. Some people are joiners some aren’t.

Broader reading of this forum will demonstrate that we are not all of the Wenger is a brigade. There are people here that want him gone, there are those that want him to stay because he is Jesus Christ incarnate, there are those that admit he has got it wrong but still want him to stay, there are those that hate him, there are those (like me) that love him, respect what he has achieved for us but now want him gone as he has stagnated over the last 7 seasons and we need a new man in there with new ideas.

A good mix. It just seems that sometimes the loudest, most extreme voices are all that’s heard on this forum but they are not representative of all members here.

I've not nominated myself for anything. Nor am I of the opinion that membership of the AST validates anyone's opinion one way or the other. In fact, I've never breathed a word in a meeting myself. Whether or not people want to join is totally up to them and I've never made the slightest inference otherwise. Those that think otherwise have completely misconceived and I'm not responsible for that. I'd been blogging for over 5 years by the time I joined up, I didn't join in an attempt to make my opinion feel more weighted or give it more kudos in my own mind. Like I said, I wanted to learn a bit more and expose myself to different opinions too.

Alls I'm saying is that the AST represents its membership through survey, frankly, I think of you're not in it, you needn't worry about what's being said because it doesn't represent you. So I don't think there's much need to get angry. If it still makes you angry after that, you can join and get your own input. It's the same with a lot of things, you can either get in on it or you can just ignore it. I wouldn't advise anyone to do either really, it's up to them. But sitting idly and getting angry isn't really that productive. Everyone's entitled to their opinions and that goes for the membership of the AST too.

Having been to AST meetings myself I can vouch for the fact Tim has not spoken at a meeting (well not the ones I've attended). However, I do believe he was the AST spokesman when explaining the results of the survey to a reporter during the meeting back in July. Apologies if I'm wrong.

[flash gunner]

Tim the link you posted on twitter of a thread off of here was over 3 months old and many of the people posting abuse have been dealt with, slightly unfair example of feelings towards you. I think the posts since your reply is a better representation of thoughts on here now

we went on a banning spree

we even like redaction thesedays

I wouldn't go that far

[Little Dutch]

Good post Tim and very few can argue with any of it.

I do wonder why the club are trying to keep the bloggers sweet though, I guess they are worried that the pen is mightier than the sword so to speak.

No doubt, I know the dig. It's about fostering good relations, but clearly blogging is the only information that regularly goes out about the club that they don't control (the programme and the magazine are very corporate nowadays). They probably wouldn't mind if it kept people sweet too. Simple PR.

[Reg Niseth]

Good post Tim and very few can argue with any of it.

I do wonder why the club are trying to keep the bloggers sweet though, I guess they are worried that the pen is mightier than the sword so to speak.

No doubt, I know the dig. It's about fostering good relations, but clearly blogging is the only information that regularly goes out about the club that they don't control (the programme and the magazine are very corporate nowadays). They probably wouldn't mind if it kept people sweet too. Simple PR.

It's obvious PR, just like the staue unveiling and medical room tour. An increasing number of fans are aware something is not right behind the scenes at the club and are concerned that bloggers they respect could fall for the PR bullshit and fail to criticise through fear of missing out on this kind of event. Sadly,a trap many think AISA have fallen into.