It's all a load of Cannonballs in here! This is the virtual Arsenal pub where you can chat about anything except football. Be warned though, like any pub, the content may not always be suitable for everyone.
Simple Fact No.1 - If the scousers had turned up on time there would have been no panic outside and no crush outside which led to the gates being opened
Simple Fact No. 2 - If thousands of ticketless scousers hadnt of turned up and started forcing their way in then there would have been no crush outside and no overcrowding inside
I'm no fan of the cops and without doubt they made some big mistakes there but some people are hung up on their hatred of cops and would rather blame this whole thing on the cops rather than look at things in a balanced way and this whole sad event was initiated by scousers and scousers alone
“Consistent with Lord Justice Taylor’s findings, the Panel found no evidence among the vast number of disclosed documents and many hours of video material to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans. There was no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium and force entry, and no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying. Documents show that fans became frustrated by the inadequate response to the unfolding tragedy. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in rescuing and evacuating the injured and the dead.”
This report was about all the things that happened after the event ie. police opening doors, lack of medical cover to save 41 or so people, cover ups, newspaper lies etc the list goes on but what id like to see is a report on what happened before the event. Why was so many people there? Why did the police think opening the gate would be a good idea? We know the answers its because liverpool fans were there too late and were pushing to get in, there is CCTV footage of it but this has been covered up by liverpool fan groups. Have you ever seen the CCTV footage Skizz? Some of the deaths would have happened outside the ground had the police not opened the doors
There is an almost mafia like strangle hold over differing views to their own which was highlighted when Alan Davies made comments on his podcast which were not wrong but doesnt tow the line. He received death threats on him and his wife and child from liverpool fans and when he tried to make amends by donating to the Hillsbrough fund was told they wouldnt accept his money.
Football fans in a crowd are noisy, have a fair share of drunks and are hyped up.
But anyone who used to go to games in the 80's will tell you that the police treated us as an "enemy"; by Hillsborough there had been over 20 years of aggro at games and the police dislike of fans lead to them treating us like animals.
I some instances they were right to think of fans like that, but in others they were not and the result was innocent people died.
Anyone who was in the away end at the Littlewoods semi-final second leg at WHL 1987 will remember how we were packed into cages and came close to a Hillsborough that day.
flash gunner wrote:This report was about all the things that happened after the event ie. police opening doors, lack of medical cover to save 41 or so people, cover ups, newspaper lies etc the list goes on but what id like to see is a report on what happened before the event. Why was so many people there? Why did the police think opening the gate would be a good idea? We know the answers its because liverpool fans were there too late and were pushing to get in, there is CCTV footage of it but this has been covered up by liverpool fan groups. Have you ever seen the CCTV footage Skizz? Some of the deaths would have happened outside the ground had the police not opened the doors
There is an almost mafia like strangle hold over differing views to their own which was highlighted when Alan Davies made comments on his podcast which were not wrong but doesnt tow the line. He received death threats on him and his wife and child from liverpool fans and when he tried to make amends by donating to the Hillsbrough fund was told they wouldnt accept his money.
This is why there needs to be a full inquiry to be honest, the last one was a load of bollocks that was set up to absolve the police of guilt. I think all parties have a degree of responsibility (Liverpool fans included) and the whole situation needs to just be dealt with now - full inquest, inside and outside the ground, no bullshit police statements, no cover ups etc.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I dont think Alan pushed the boat out either but my main issue is that, until this shit is cleared up once and for all, safe standing will NEVER happen in the UK. This report isnt enough to convince the government/FA to even trial it IMO...why would they?
QuartzGooner wrote:Football fans in a crowd are noisy, have a fair share of drunks and are hyped up.
But anyone who used to go to games in the 80's will tell you that the police treated us as an "enemy"; by Hillsborough there had been over 20 years of aggro at games and the police dislike of fans lead to them treating us like animals.
I've always found scousers to be very honest, trustworthy and decent law abiding people, so if they claim they have done no wrong in these events. Then I have no reason to doubt their word. I trust this is more acceptable
goonersid wrote:I can sense a protest march.
I can sense another memorial
I can sense a day of remembrance
I can sense tribute t-shirts
I can sense a minutes silence
But most of all I can sense claims for compo
skizz_b wrote:the families barely got enough compensation to pay for the funerals. several police officers got £1.2m shared between them because of the "trauma they had to witness" that they caused in the first place!!!money shouldnt be the root of it, i cant help but think knowing what truly happened that day should be the closure they need.
Sorry but no. The cops played a role in it no doubt, but caused it? I would have thought the thousands of Mousers that turned up without tickets and proceeded to push their way in also played a fucking huge role in it. Shit they still do, let's not forget.
Exactly my thoughts, there will never be justice for those families because they will never be able to track down all the murderers that turned up without a ticket and tried to get in causing the reaction from the Police.
skizz_b wrote:the families barely got enough compensation to pay for the funerals. several police officers got £1.2m shared between them because of the "trauma they had to witness" that they caused in the first place!!!money shouldnt be the root of it, i cant help but think knowing what truly happened that day should be the closure they need.
Sorry but no. The cops played a role in it no doubt, but caused it? I would have thought the thousands of Mousers that turned up without tickets and proceeded to push their way in also played a fucking huge role in it. Shit they still do, let's not forget.
Exactly my thoughts, there will never be justice for those families because they will never be able to track down all the murderers that turned up without a ticket and tried to get in causing the reaction from the Police.
One thing in addition to my earlier post, is that whilst the Liverpool fans will rightly say they have proved a point about policing, is that they of all the clubs have a following who try and get in without tickets.
They have done it at our ground, and they infamously did it in Istanbul.
QuartzGooner wrote:One thing in addition to my earlier post, is that whilst the Liverpool fans will rightly say they have proved a point about policing, is that they of all the clubs have a following who try and get in without tickets.
They have done it at our ground, and they infamously did it in Istanbul.
It makes watching a game a lot more unsafe.
And Athens too. As well as rushing the turnstiles they mugged their own fans for tickets in Athens. A ST holding lifelong Mouser supporting workmate was there and was appalled by what he saw. He's never travelled away with them since.
Money shouldn't come into this, regardless of what compensation people may think the families deserve then it would undermine their whole campaign over the last 23 years if that was deemed justice. I do agree that this isn't justice in its full sense, it's merely disclosure but there's no actual accountability been imposed. Personal convictions are the final step.
Does the report contain written apologies to the families of the dead from the fans that turned up without tickets yet forced they way into the ground that day? Do they admit that they were at the back doing the pushing and causing the crowd surge? If the report doesn't then I don't see how this can bring justice for the 96.
PM David Cameron's speech in the House of Commons today
"Todays report is Black and White
The Liverpool fans were not the cause of the disaster
The panel found no evidence in support of allegations of exceptional levels of drunkness,ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans,no evidence that fans conspired to arrive late at the stadium and no evidence they stole from the dead"
