WALCOTT - which position is best etc?

[the moog]

really, he's shown that given any longer he's crap. he came on last night when the greeks were shot. could you really see him doing that in the first half?.

you say he's worth keeping but at what price? his contract would be worth at least £8million and he's just not worth that. people need to realise that the lad will never be the player he was hyped to be.

you need to start delivering at 23 and he ain't

If, as you say, his contract would cost "at least £8 million" surely that is reason enough to sign him - who on earth would replace him for £8m inclusive of transfer fees and wages?!!

You say "people need to realise hat the lad will never be the player he was hyped to be" which may be true but the media hype any young player, it is up to the spporters to be intelligent enough to cast their own judgement and expectancy on a player. Or do you blindly believe everything you read in the press?!

Your last line "You need to start delivering at 23 and he ain't" is hilarious - 2010/11 he scored 13 goals, 2011/12 he scored 11 goals plus 12 assists! Also 4 goals already this season where he has only started one game thus far. In total this 23 year old has already scored 46 first team goals for Arsenal! What more do you want? He has regularly expressed his desire to become more consistant in the press, and every season he has shown a definite improvement in his final ball and finishing.I have defended Theo to the hilt on this forum but I am concerned with Theo's stance on playing up front - it obviously undermines Wenger as manager. And if it is true he wants to be played as a striker, how many chances does he want if it doesn't work? Does he expect AW to play him there indefinitely until it does work to the detrement of the team's results? Also it would set a precedent for other players - imagine for example Vermaelen demanding to play as striker too!

I have read fans saying he should be given a chance up front, but surely the same fans would soon be calling for both AW's and Theo's heads to roll if it ended in failure?

please never quote the assist stat to me, its a load of crap. also the highlighted bit just shows that you really don't watch Arsenal matches.

[northbank123]

When he plays he plays as a wing striker (because he does fuck all tracking back) so I'd expect far better return figures than that. At the end of the day he could be an extremely useful player for Arsenal if he had the hunger he had when he came on Saturday, but he's been in and around the team for years now and doesn't show it enough, he'll have 3 or 4 'inspired' performances a year and the rest is total dross. Has he justified £75k/w? No. £100k/w? Not a fucking chance. Call me crazy but I don't reckon we should go awarding 5-year contracts on wages like that to a player who's underperformed perenially and before Saturday's cameo had done nothing to suggest he was battling to prove he was worth it.

[hugh jardon]

really, he's shown that given any longer he's crap. he came on last night when the greeks were shot. could you really see him doing that in the first half?.

you say he's worth keeping but at what price? his contract would be worth at least £8million and he's just not worth that. people need to realise that the lad will never be the player he was hyped to be.

you need to start delivering at 23 and he ain't

If, as you say, his contract would cost "at least £8 million" surely that is reason enough to sign him - who on earth would replace him for £8m inclusive of transfer fees and wages?!!

You say "people need to realise hat the lad will never be the player he was hyped to be" which may be true but the media hype any young player, it is up to the spporters to be intelligent enough to cast their own judgement and expectancy on a player. Or do you blindly believe everything you read in the press?!

Your last line "You need to start delivering at 23 and he ain't" is hilarious - 2010/11 he scored 13 goals, 2011/12 he scored 11 goals plus 12 assists! Also 4 goals already this season where he has only started one game thus far. In total this 23 year old has already scored 46 first team goals for Arsenal! What more do you want? He has regularly expressed his desire to become more consistant in the press, and every season he has shown a definite improvement in his final ball and finishing.I have defended Theo to the hilt on this forum but I am concerned with Theo's stance on playing up front - it obviously undermines Wenger as manager. And if it is true he wants to be played as a striker, how many chances does he want if it doesn't work? Does he expect AW to play him there indefinitely until it does work to the detrement of the team's results? Also it would set a precedent for other players - imagine for example Vermaelen demanding to play as striker too!

I have read fans saying he should be given a chance up front, but surely the same fans would soon be calling for both AW's and Theo's heads to roll if it ended in failure?

please never quote the assist stat to me, its a load of crap. also the highlighted bit just shows that you really don't watch Arsenal matches.

Dennis Bergkamp provided 116 assists and Thierry Heny assisted 106 times in their Arsenal careers - are their assists stats also "a load of crap" as you say?

I watch Arsenal home, away and overseas mate. Since 1986 to present - and I've seen a lot worse wearing an Arsenal shirt than Walcott, including many in the current squad.

[the moog]

[quote="hugh]please never quote the assist stat to me, its a load of crap. also the highlighted bit just shows that you really don't watch Arsenal matches.[/quote]

Dennis Bergkamp provided 116 assists and Thierry Heny assisted 106 times in their Arsenal careers - are their assists stats also "a load of crap" as you say?
I watch Arsenal home, away and overseas mate. Since 1986 to present - and I've seen a lot worse wearing an Arsenal shirt than Walcott, including many in the current squad.[/quote]

if you really think that the player who last touchs the ball prior to the scorer should be given a credit then you and the other opta junkies are deluded. be it walnut or DB10 the assist stat is crap and is just used by agents to get more dough.

and if you watch Arsenal you will have seen that walnut has constantly failed to breakdown defenses and was for the most part shocking last season. he's found his best position this season.

[Cockerill's chin]

Dismissing the assist stat as irrelevant is just as naive as over relying on it. Of course it has some relevance in judging a player's value.

Walcott's pace has unlocked quite a few defences in his time at Arsenal and he has contributed some important goals. Everybody is fully aware he can be frustrating but I think he wil be a quality player for Arsenal or somebody else. I hope he stays but feel conflicted about £100k per week. We don't pay those wages and when we do it is for proven and consistent talent. Then again, young English talent commands a premium and the Arseanl will make money from a marketable player like Theo. Also, there will be other clubs willing to pay it and we often complain the Arsenal don't compete at the current inflated market level. This isn't the same as over-paying Average Al or B52. There will be Champions League level takers for Theo.

Hope he stays, and the Gazidis inspired accountant in me hopes it will be for the 75k offered.

[northbank123]

Dismissing the assist stat as irrelevant is just as naive as over relying on it. Of course it has some relevance in judging a player's value.

Walcott's pace has unlocked quite a few defences in his time at Arsenal and he has contributed some important goals. Everybody is fully aware he can be frustrating but I think he wil be a quality player for Arsenal or somebody else. I hope he stays but feel conflicted about £100k per week. We don't pay those wages and when we do it is for proven and consistent talent. Then again, young English talent commands a premium and the Arseanl will make money from a marketable player like Theo. Also, there will be other clubs willing to pay it and we often complain the Arsenal don't compete at the current inflated market level. This isn't the same as over-paying Average Al or B52. There will be Champions League level takers for Theo.

Hope he stays, and the Gazidis inspired accountant in me hopes it will be for the 75k offered.

The fact that somebody else is willing to pay it is irrelevant really. Question is is he worth £100k/w to us (as a squad player)?

[rigsby]

if you really think that the player who last touchs the ball prior to the scorer should be given a credit then you and the other opta junkies are deluded.

Really mate? Really?

[Cockerill's chin]

The fact that somebody else is willing to pay it is irrelevant really. Question is is he worth £100k/w to us (as a squad player)?

I don't think it is irrelevant as it gives an indication of his market value. If we were to pay it then we would not be stuck with a player on an inflated contract as we have been with B52, Squillaci, Al and others. Theo will have his suitors in spite of a 75-100k contract. I agree with you though that the overiding concern for the management is if 100k per week represents value. It is frustrating that they have got us thinking like them though isn't it?

[northbank123]

The fact that somebody else is willing to pay it is irrelevant really. Question is is he worth £100k/w to us (as a squad player)?

I don't think it is irrelevant as it gives an indication of his market value. If we were to pay it then we would not be stuck with a player on an inflated contract as we have been with B52, Squillaci, Al and others. Theo will have his suitors in spite of a 75-100k contract. I agree with you though that the overiding concern for the management is if 100k per week represents value. It is frustrating that they have got us thinking like them though isn't it?

Don't want to trot out the standard reply but by that token market value of Jordan Henderson and Santi Cazorla are the same etc. Perhaps not entirely irrelevant but I don't think it's necessarily a comprehensive argument because perhaps his particular attributes offer more value to another club who want to play kick-and-rush football perhaps, or because as everybody knows most of our competitors are willing to pay twice what a player is worth in wages and transfer fee.

Do agree about thinking like Gazidis etc though. Although it's perfectly rational given that a wage increase for Theo would leave a hole needing to be plugged and probably result in us refusing to offer a quality player an attractive deal.

[Cockerill's chin]

I know this may be pedantic but I think Henderson/Cazorla transfers is widening the discussion. I have been talking about wages/contracts and how paying players over-inflated wages means they have been difficult to move on irrespective of transfer fee (AA hawked around on a free with only Zenit sniffing). Paying 100k per week to Theo is not over his market value and therefore would not leave us in the position that many other contracts have. I agree his value is not only based on talent, the lad is a marketable asset for any club.

I also agree that transfer fees are feral with bizarre variables influencing outcomes. When Carrol goes for 35m and Fabregas moves for 25.6m, trying to establish market value through the size of a transfer fee is pissing in the wind.

Regarding your comment on his suitability to other clubs, I think TW is well suited to the Arsenal. His pace down the flanks is useful when teams push up and compact the middle of the park. How many times have we been frustrated by trying to move the ball through the eye of the needle through the centre? If/when his contract is sorted Theo will be much more than a squad player.

[northbank123]

I'm very wary I'm talking Wengerish here but in this case the "market value" refers to the market of clubs like Liverpool, City and Chelsea who are notorious for paying well over the odds for both wages and transfer fees. At the end of the day I'm desperate for investment in the squad but not in spunking away what resources are going to be made available like those clubs do.

Imagine we gave Walcott £100k/w, what do you think the likes of Arteta who took a pay cut from Everton and has been our most consistent performer since joining would think? Do you think Feo deserves to be more our less our highest paid player? If we gave him that Wenger would rightly have a queue of players demanding huge wage increases.

Regardless of how much money we spunk away at the moment we should not be paying £100k/w to squad players.

[the moog]

Dismissing the assist stat as irrelevant is just as naive as over relying on it. Of course it has some relevance in judging a player's value.Walcott's pace has unlocked quite a few defences in his time at Arsenal and he has contributed some important goals. Everybody is fully aware he can be frustrating but I think he wil be a quality player for Arsenal or somebody else. I hope he stays but feel conflicted about £100k per week. We don't pay those wages and when we do it is for proven and consistent talent. Then again, young English talent commands a premium and the Arseanl will make money from a marketable player like Theo. Also, there will be other clubs willing to pay it and we often complain the Arsenal don't compete at the current inflated market level. This isn't the same as over-paying Average Al or B52. There will be Champions League level takers for Theo.

Hope he stays, and the Gazidis inspired accountant in me hopes it will be for the 75k offered.

so are corners assists? are throw-ins assists do they go to judging a players value. should we also count deliveries from from free kicks as well? is a defense spliting pass not worth more than a five yard square ball (as this would be the assist). its a joke stat.

the second bit always makes me laugh, so now were expected to pay more for a birth certificate than actual talent.

[the moog]

if you really think that the player who last touchs the ball prior to the scorer should be given a credit then you and the other opta junkies are deluded.

Really mate? Really?

yea really

[LDB]

Dismissing the assist stat as irrelevant is just as naive as over relying on it. Of course it has some relevance in judging a player's value.Walcott's pace has unlocked quite a few defences in his time at Arsenal and he has contributed some important goals. Everybody is fully aware he can be frustrating but I think he wil be a quality player for Arsenal or somebody else. I hope he stays but feel conflicted about £100k per week. We don't pay those wages and when we do it is for proven and consistent talent. Then again, young English talent commands a premium and the Arseanl will make money from a marketable player like Theo. Also, there will be other clubs willing to pay it and we often complain the Arsenal don't compete at the current inflated market level. This isn't the same as over-paying Average Al or B52. There will be Champions League level takers for Theo.

Hope he stays, and the Gazidis inspired accountant in me hopes it will be for the 75k offered.

so are corners assists? are throw-ins assists do they go to judging a players value. should we also count deliveries from from free kicks as well? is a defense spliting pass not worth more than a five yard square ball (as this would be the assist). its a joke stat.

the second bit always makes me laugh, so now were expected to pay more for a birth certificate than actual talent.

Radford, out of curiosity why have you changed your name? Is it so you could drop all the third person stuff?

But yeah, fuck theo

[the moog]

Dismissing the assist stat as irrelevant is just as naive as over relying on it. Of course it has some relevance in judging a player's value.

Walcott's pace has unlocked quite a few defences in his time at Arsenal and he has contributed some important goals. Everybody is fully aware he can be frustrating but I think he wil be a quality player for Arsenal or somebody else. I hope he stays but feel conflicted about £100k per week. We don't pay those wages and when we do it is for proven and consistent talent. Then again, young English talent commands a premium and the Arseanl will make money from a marketable player like Theo. Also, there will be other clubs willing to pay it and we often complain the Arsenal don't compete at the current inflated market level. This isn't the same as over-paying Average Al or B52. There will be Champions League level takers for Theo.

Hope he stays, and the Gazidis inspired accountant in me hopes it will be for the 75k offered.

will we make money by giving him a fabulous contract? will we sell him for more than we paid for him? as others have said should he be on more money than the other current first team players? you say other CL teams will take him who eaxctly? theres is no reason for the arabs, russians or the munichs to sign him. they can and have proved that they will sign better players. as for him going abroad (not that you mentioned it), do me a favour. we need to write the theo theo experiment off as an overall loss and look to the future.