UFOs - yes or no?

[flash gunner]

A friend further down the road has been in bed and has been unable to move due to a restrictive force holding her down. I get her Holy water from time to time and we have had a Vicar perform an exorcism there too.

There is an explaination for most things and this one is easily explained its called sleep paralysis and i have suffered 2 or 3 times in my life, there really is no need for exorcisms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

[StuartL]

I saw an elderly bloke in a white night shirt in my home one night. White beard and a night cap too. Just a glimpse, but more than a suggestion of an image.

Upstairs ? Downstairs ? In his night gown...




Wee Willie Winkie ?

(No offence intended TL)

[OneBardGooner]

obg, top londoner, more details on these shape shifters plz!

i agree there must be something very intelligent out there, but what and if its an 'alien as we think of it i dont know, but whatever it is i reckon there has been contact. i dont think alien technology hlped us go from motor car to spaceship, but maybe some advnaced military stuff as extraterristial help. realistically we havent a clue what goes on in military research bases. and also maybe aliens were involved in ancient times, like ancient egypyt and south america, and those civilisations massive advancement over everyone else at the time.

these things occur near bases probably, becuase maybe they are new super advanced military technology that is being tested, not 'aliens' but then again maybe its aliens having a look at whats going on at the bases, so thats why people see them nearby.

likewise there are too many witness reports by credible and sane people for it to be all BS (and i think this is the case in most weird happenings, ufos, nessie, bigfoot etc)

as for my ghost story flash, well im not certain, and its pretty boring, not at close quarters or anything.

but few years back when i was in my teens, i was on holiday in south devon with my couisins and aunt&uncle, near a place called bigbury on sea. they had a couple of canadian canoes, that we took out in a nearby river (the avon, not the famous avon, one of the many small ones that exist) that had a tidal road running alongside it for a few hundred yards that was submerged at the rivers high tide.
one afternoon we were approaching the tidal road bit, with the aim of parking up the other side and taking the canoes out, and the water was on either side of it, but not yet over it, not sure if it was going in or coming out. on approaching we saw an old man in white from about 200 yards away on the tidal road section to the left and ahead, 4 of us saw him in the first car, but upon looking again a few seconds later he had gone, when we got to the tidal bit itself he was nowhere to be seen, yet he had knowhere to go, there was water and tidal mud on either side, and he couldnt have got off the road in the time we looked and then looked again. baffled us all, and all we could conclude was that we all mistakenly saw the same thing initial, (mass hallucination) or that what we had seen had disappeared unexplianably, so must have been 'otherworldly' be it a ghost or some sort of time slippage or whatever. would have been interesting to look at the history of the road to see if there had ever been drownings or anything.

thankfully that and the big cat thing have been the only to 'supernatural' (not really the correct word, as the cat thing was defo real but cant think of anything better) that have happened to me, and thats enough for me. i was realily shitting myself over the cat thing.

was walking down a remote coombe a few years ago in the quantock hills in somerset above the village of east quantoxhead.
lots of sheep loose on those hills and we saw a carcass and jokingly commented about a 'beast'

a few minutes later in the coombe, that had dense chest high bracken/undergrowth one side of the past and a dense fir wood on the other, upon rounding a bend in the path we saw 2 'black big cat cubs' cross the path no more than 5 metres ahead of us. we froze they carried oninto the undergrwth not giving us a glance. we didnt see the 'parent' but were absolutely shitting it. they were defo not indigenous british wildlife as we were all familar with foxes, badges and the like, and most defnetely were not domestic cats. all i can say is they were black panther ubs. we decided to carry on down the path after picking up some decent sized stones (not that they would have done us much good but made us feel better) and get back to civilisation as soon as possible. interestingly the sheep in that area were behaving very differently to the other we had encountered, not feeding and 'bleating' alot and looking around seemingly spooked.

now call this BS but it was very real to me!

It is difficult to describe really, I use the term 'Shape Shift' - but it is the best term I can think of to describe what I (and two friends) witnessed, even though it is a term often used among Aboriginal Peoples (N. Americans often speak of one of their people - Medicine Woman or Man 'shapeshifting' - from human form into that of a animal - perhaps their Totem Animal ( a Totem being the Animal Spirit at the centre of a persons Circle/medicine wheel)....There are many stories/tales/books that describe this in great detail.

Some years ago - I was travelling in the US (West) I was driving through Arizona (in my early 20's) along a road and came across a very elderly woman and her 9 yr old grandson by the roadside - they were selling silver & turquoise jewellery they made, all laid out on a blanket - her son / his father was supposed to have picked them up 2 days gone - and they had no food and no water - I didn't know this till I stopped to look at their wares. To cut a long story short - I gave them a lift to a near Gas station - got them some food and water - and then drove them to their home (on the Res)...the son's truck had broken down and he couldn't get to them (there is no running water or electricity in these places) I ended up staying there for 6 weeks (as an invited guest - which I now realise was quite an honour for a white man - and whilst there I learnt and saw some amazing things...I was offered (and gladly accepted) a Healing from the elders there...and the injury I had been carrying for 6 months - literally went overnight along with any pain - That proved to be a major turning point in my life.....and I still have the 'gifts' they gave me...some fetishes etc.....so even though I had experienced 'seeing' all kinds of stuff whilst there, the experience on Salisbury Plains was still somewhat unsettling and not easy to come to terms with.............Seeing what I thought to be a ordinary bloke suddenly 'change' as if 'peeling their human form off...without using their hands etc...as if they transformed in some way - we all talked about it for some days/weeks after - before we mentioned it to our partners etc.. one of the guys with me - who was/is a strict R.Catholic ended up going to see his priest because it really shook him..apparently the priest said he should 'make confession' and ask for guidance from God. I haven't seen him for over 5 years now, but he made it very clear that we (the three of us) were not to discuss it any more in his presence...

I am of the opinion - yes wait for all the mickey taking - that many people 'witness' things beyond the 5 senses...and yet our logical minds (ego's) are unable to comprehend and pigeon hole these occurrences and so our logical self dismisses them.

So whilst I can understand some peoples scepticism, My own experiences have taught me to be more open minded about things.

But hey each to is/her own.

Edit: ps: I spoke about this to a well respected (Celtic) Shamanic Healer - and she said that it may well have been my experiences in Arizona that 'opened' me to be able to witness (and remember - as in not dismissing from my mind and memory) what I saw . <shrug>.

[QuartzGooner]

Seeing as how this thread has gone into the paranormal etc (and that is two hecks of experiences OneBard - Shapeshifting and Native Americans) I will add a very quick one.

One night when I was a teenager, I suddenly awoke in the middle of the night, and sat up in bed with the thought in my head that "Kenneth Williams is going to die soon".

The next day I was somewhere with the radio on and it announced on the news that "Carry On star Kenneth Williams was found dead in his flat today".

At the time I woke up, the news had not been made public, and I was at home in a totally quiet house.
The thought was in my head, and not "heard" externally.

I had never met Kenneth Williams, nor knew anyone who knew him.

I have since found out that part of the soul goes to heaven when we sleep; therefore it is possible that part of my soul met Kenneth Williams's soul en-route or in heaven.

[DB10GOONER]

Seeing as how this thread has gone into the paranormal etc (and that is two hecks of experiences OneBard - Shapeshifting and Native Americans) I will add a very quick one.

One night when I was a teenager, I suddenly awoke in the middle of the night, and sat up in bed with the thought in my head that "Kenneth Williams is going to die soon".

The next day I was somewhere with the radio on and it announced on the news that "Carry On star Kenneth Williams was found dead in his flat today".

At the time I woke up, the news had not been made public, and I was at home in a totally quiet house.
The thought was in my head, and not "heard" externally.

I had never met Kenneth Williams, nor knew anyone who knew him.

I have since found out that part of the soul goes to heaven when we sleep; therefore it is possible that part of my soul met Kenneth Williams's soul en-route or in heaven.

Sorry, have to stop you there, mate. You have since "found out" that part of the soul goes to heaven when we sleep? Found out? As in, for a fact? I think you'll find that is just someone's theory.

Also the "I had a feeling that someone would die before they died" thing? It is your mind re-organising the timeline of events. You most probably heard he'd died when you were tired or half asleep, subconciously registered it, then had a dream about it, but your mind has re-aligned the order of events. It is very common and the human mind is incredibly powerful and can convince us of almost anything. Crime investigators and psychologists have done experiments to show that subtle suggestion can convince eyewitnesses that they saw things that actually never happened.

[flash gunner]

Blimey this thread is getting out of hand

Im not calling anyone liars as i think you believe the stuff youve written but its all too far fetched for me

[OneBardGooner]

Blimey this thread is getting out of hand

Im not calling anyone liars as i think you believe the stuff youve written but its all too far fetched for me

What!!!??? Ohhhhh! you mean in the same way the TV remote is out of your reach when you're sat on one of your many sofa's!?

[flash gunner]

Blimey this thread is getting out of hand

Im not calling anyone liars as i think you believe the stuff youve written but its all too far fetched for me

What!!!??? Ohhhhh! you mean in the same way the TV remote is out of your reach when you're sat on one of your many sofa's!?

How do you know about my many sofas?

[OneBardGooner]

Seeing as how this thread has gone into the paranormal etc (and that is two hecks of experiences OneBard - Shapeshifting and Native Americans) I will add a very quick one.

One night when I was a teenager, I suddenly awoke in the middle of the night, and sat up in bed with the thought in my head that "Kenneth Williams is going to die soon".

The next day I was somewhere with the radio on and it announced on the news that "Carry On star Kenneth Williams was found dead in his flat today".

At the time I woke up, the news had not been made public, and I was at home in a totally quiet house.
The thought was in my head, and not "heard" externally.

I had never met Kenneth Williams, nor knew anyone who knew him.

I have since found out that part of the soul goes to heaven when we sleep; therefore it is possible that part of my soul met Kenneth Williams's soul en-route or in heaven.

Sorry, have to stop you there, mate. You have since "found out" that part of the soul goes to heaven when we sleep? Found out? As in, for a fact? I think you'll find that is just someone's theory.

Also the "I had a feeling that someone would die before they died" thing? It is your mind re-organising the timeline of events. You most probably heard he'd died when you were tired or half asleep, subconciously registered it, then had a dream about it, but your mind has re-aligned the order of events. It is very common and the human mind is incredibly powerful and can convince us of almost anything. Crime investigators and psychologists have done experiments to show that subtle suggestion can convince eyewitnesses that they saw things that actually never happened.

Sorry, I have to stop you there DB ole mucker!

I can Totally understand your questioning of what Quartz has said - Not because he is making anything up - we both know he is not. However, I have read of and spoken with people that have had the same thing happen with them. They have dreamt, or in full waking consciousness had a thought come to them that such and such has happened - be it the death of someone (unrelated or otherwise) or of a disaster of some kind. I'm sure pyschoanalysts and psychologists have terms to describe this, but (for me) it is a form of pre-cognitive 'dreaming'.
There are many 'theories' - yes THAT word, claiming that we humans have the ability to do this or that or whatever - but there are all kinds of theories that talk of Astral Planing (when either our soul/spirit or part of it) travels on a higher frequency than the physical plane.

There are other theories that talk of one's Energy or Dream Body (an energetic mirroring of the physical self) - and it is this that can do all kinds of things whether we be conscious/awake/sleeping/dreaming etc(Castaneda talks about the Dream Body and how there are specific - will determined - exercises one can do to build the Dream Body) - Part of those theories speak of how the Physical Self and The Dream/Energy Body - are inextricably linked and only (Fully) separate at the point of Death, which might be why there are so many reports of 'Near Death Experiences'.

There are many traditions in all the ancient civilisations and cultures (Australian Aboriginal/N.American Indian/European and Celtic Aboriginal Peoples/ Siberian and Tibetan Peoples) that have written evidence of specific "Dreaming Practices" that enabled them to dream in a conscious way (what we tend to refer to in this age as Lucid Dreaming - a state of being fully asleep, whilst Dreaming Consciously - that is as real as the 'wakened state', except one can do extra-ordinary things, because the 'laws of the physical world do not apply - so walking through walls, or swim underwater and breathe are all possible.

The ancient Greeks used to have specially designed Dreaming Temples - usually next to the Theatres and Hospitals - where something called Dream Incubation could be learnt/carried out ( dreaming with extreme lucidity).

I think that's really cool quartz - your waking up and knowing something had happened - only to then discover it has - I occasionally had those kind of experiences when I was a child - I recall asking my grandmother if (Mrs Careless) a good friend of hers would go to heaven or hell..and she asked me why? and I told her that Mrs Careless was dead (I just knew she was dead). She gave me a somewhat surprised look...an hour or so later a neighbour called round to tell my Grandmother the sad news.

When we sleep part of us (dream body/consciousness?) journey's or leaves our bodies - and so it is entirely possible you may have discovered that about Kenneth Williams - your essences/or consciences met/passed each other.

Also; as to part of our soul/essence going to heaven when we sleep - I get that totally, though I have a bit of a different slant on it.
We all have a spirit/soul/essence - call it what you will!? - When we suffer a trauma, be it physical eg: Car crash, or emotional - Loss of a loved one, or both; being assaulted. Part of our essence/soul breaks off - - what the ancients referred to as "Soul Loss" (it is a term that has re-appeared in our lexicon over the past decade with the re-emergence of Shamanism). And the reason part of us breaks off, is that it is a survival thing, so that we do not die from the trauma - I'm sure we've heard of someone dying from a broken heart - well I'm sure that's entirely possible - the grief/trauma is too much and they suffer Total Soul Loss.
Which is why the Medicine Men and Women of the early peoples (also called Shaman's) used to do 'Soul Retrieval' medicine. They would do a shamanic journey on behalf of the person and bring the soul part/essence back.

simples

[OneBardGooner]

Blimey this thread is getting out of hand

Im not calling anyone liars as i think you believe the stuff youve written but its all too far fetched for me

What!!!??? Ohhhhh! you mean in the same way the TV remote is out of your reach when you're sat on one of your many sofa's!?

How do you know about my many sofas?

It's called Remote Viewing Flash!...btw: those drapes definitely do match the new wall paper!

[DB10GOONER]

Sorry Onebard but you are presenting theory and belief as fact. And there is not one piece of scientifically proven evidence for any of those beliefs. They are just beliefs.

The problem for alot of you "believers" is that you try and justify your beliefs within our modern setting by refering to "ancient indians" and "ancient theories" as if that is proof sacrosanct, but you fail to realise (or possibly accept) that these stories passed down from these Ancient peoples are often just an uneducated explanation that these (mostly) ignorant peoples tried to give for things they did not or could not understand. You also fail to take into context that these peoples were often led by corrupt "holy men" and/or chieftens that used these beliefs to retain power and control over their people.

[Top Londoner]

OBG, re: beyond the five senses. I was once viewing a youtube clip on a forum and read through the comments. I noticed that nobody had referred to seeing some disturing subliminal messaging happeing. I left a message and another reader slowed the video down several dozen times and, sure enough, he validated what I had seen.
When asked how I saw it, I could only reply that it was my third eye.


Quartz. re: Kenneth Willaims and the soul leaving the body. I have read somewhere that it may have something to do with the solar plexus?

[flash gunner]

Sorry Onebard but you are presenting theory and belief as fact. And there is not one piece of scientifically proven evidence for any of those beliefs. They are just beliefs.

The problem for alot of you "believers" is that you try and justify your beliefs within our modern setting by refering to "ancient indians" and "ancient theories" as if that is proof sacrosanct, but you fail to realise (or possibly accept) that these stories passed down from these Ancient peoples are often just an uneducated explanation that these (mostly) ignorant peoples tried to give for things they did not or could not understand. You also fail to take into context that these peoples were often led by corrupt "holy men" and/or chieftens that used these beliefs to retain power and control over their people.

Spot on DB10

Another thing re. Quartz' Kenneth Williams story is there are some times ive had a thought about someone dying or a worry a loved one is hurt for example only to find they arent or a person hasnt died and you'll forget about that instantly yet the time you were right you'll think fuck me im psychic.... Similar to spiritulists they throw 100 different suggestions out during a meeting and you remember the 1 that applies to you and you think fuck me im talking to the dead.... All bollocks im afraid

[DB10GOONER]

Sorry Onebard but you are presenting theory and belief as fact. And there is not one piece of scientifically proven evidence for any of those beliefs. They are just beliefs.

The problem for alot of you "believers" is that you try and justify your beliefs within our modern setting by refering to "ancient indians" and "ancient theories" as if that is proof sacrosanct, but you fail to realise (or possibly accept) that these stories passed down from these Ancient peoples are often just an uneducated explanation that these (mostly) ignorant peoples tried to give for things they did not or could not understand. You also fail to take into context that these peoples were often led by corrupt "holy men" and/or chieftens that used these beliefs to retain power and control over their people.

Spot on DB10

Another thing re. Quartz' Kenneth Williams story is there are some times ive had a thought about someone dying or a worry a loved one is hurt for example only to find they arent or a person hasnt died and you'll forget about that instantly yet the time you were right you'll think fuck me im psychic.... Similar to spiritulists they throw 100 different suggestions out during a meeting and you remember the 1 that applies to you and you think fuck me im talking to the dead.... All bollocks im afraid

Exactofuckingmundo, Flash.

The selectiveness of memory is also often used to cover what is essentially coincidence and/or to retroactively shape the incident to fit the (now corrupted) memory.

I point back to tests by criminologists. They have shown people often remember things incorrectly. Good reading here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_memory

[OneBardGooner]

Sorry Onebard but you are presenting theory and belief as fact. And there is not one piece of scientifically proven evidence for any of those beliefs. They are just beliefs.


The problem for alot of you "believers" is that you try and justify your beliefs within our modern setting by refering to "ancient indians" and "ancient theories" as if that is proof sacrosanct, but you fail to realise (or possibly accept) that these stories passed down from these Ancient peoples are often just an uneducated explanation that these (mostly) ignorant peoples tried to give for things they did not or could not understand. You also fail to take into context that these peoples were often led by corrupt "holy men" and/or chieftens that used these beliefs to retain power and control over their people.

I know what you're saying mate, and yes - because these 'things' are not of our everyday, physical world - and furthermore because they are not part of the majorities collective concensus - they can only be 'theories, opinions or as you say 'beliefs'.

I have seen some truly inexplicable things - not just 'seen' but experienced - and having 'explored' various 'spiritual' and what is now (sadly) the new buzz word "Shamanic" paths, I find myself - having had experiences of very real situations etc - unable to dismiss them - as I once used to do. I was once the biggest sceptic you could ever meet, but having travelled extensively (off the beaten path) and shared time with quite a number of indigenous people/s, All my instincts tell me there is more than the world of the five senses.

And you are right there have been many charlatans, still are and always will be. But also there are many 'honourable' people who are healers/sages/' seers. The thing is the way the media works - always has - Bad news sells...and so all the 'good stuff' isn't readily reported, whereas when someone has taken a load of innocent/trusting people for a ride and fleeced them etc...then that gets reported straight away big time.

Also there are these 'cult' leaders, I have no time for these types (so called Guru's) who take advantage of people's desire to find 'something' to believe in, or follow.

I have always gone by my own 'instincts' and if it feels right to me, then I go with that.

The established religions - though they are a font and anchor for many people and their live's...could also be said to be guilty of a form of manipulation - they use 'God' (and their claims of being his representative/s on earth) as a means by which to exercise power over people. So it could be argued that they are equally guilty. I mean the pope lives in 10 star luxury - as do his attendants etc - whilst hundreds of people (many of them children) are dying from starvation, which in my book is hypocrisy.

There is a chap by the name of Eckhart Tolle - he was once a academic - PhD type, who had what at the time was something of a 'melt down' - and ended up living on park benches for a year or so, having rejected the regular/nornal way of life. But he has come forward with some extra-ordinary (yet simple and basic) proposals about how we live...in that he (I'm putting this simply ) He says that 99.9% of the human race do not live in the fullness of themselves, in that we either are thinking (Living in) of the Past or (In) of the future - so few of us are living in the "Now" - In the moment (the way that very young children and animals do).

I went to hear him speak (about 4 years ago ) in London, the morning before a home game - and what he spoke of made total sense - to both my instinctual nature, and my logical self.

He has written many books on it - and yes is now loaded - but one I would recommend to anyone is "Practising The Power Of Now" - could probably get it from a library, so no need to spend any wonga!.

Anyway the essentials of what he says (at least for me) is that we are more than just a physical being, and he goes into great detail on how this can be experienced and so proven to the self.