which striker (left back and backup goalie) should we buy?

[highburyJD]

Yeah and they tore Newcastle to shreds.

in the first 15 mins, after that Newcastle were well on top but missed lots of chances

I say they 'need' him because that's what the policy of the club is: we can't afford to let such a world class player piss off to another club when we could get him. I'd say that's been justified looking at how many points his goals have got them this season already, regardless of other areas that needed strengthening.

RVP has started well, I have no doubt in his abilities when fit.
On the other hand I do have significant doubt in his ability to stay fit.
They have given him a huge wage and a long term contract - would one good season justify 4 years at £10M each in wages alone? Especially when its almost guaranteed one of their other strikers will be forced out.

They are seriously light in central midfield - now reliant on perpetually ill Fletch, ancient Ginger ninja + paceless pervert winger, fat normally lame anderson and slightly under-rated Carrick (he's decent not shite). Buying a 4th striker 'regardless' screams board mismanagement to me

The only fucking market that Kroenke cares about is the Stock Exchange and the only statement he cares about is from his bank. We're going to get top 4 this year because Liverpool are even shitter than last year and Spurs lack quality and depth, plus we're a better team than last year. Explain to me why Kroenke would be compelled to allow tens of millions to be thrown around in Jan?

me and augie have both touched on it - what could compel Kroenke is commercial contract renewal. Theo is one of our most marketable players, and he may well leave. We need to strengthen the 'brand' internationally if we want to maximise shirt and sponsorship deals. Normally an unknown striker would be a little more our speed (and Wenger is arguably better at signing them) but if we want to squeeze the max out of sponsors a marque signing, a face, gives us some much needed extra leverage.

[green gooner]

I believe Michael Owen is attainable and allegedly is not happy at Stoke, owing to Tony Pullis being a complete fucking arsehole.

Have to say that stooping so low as to chase Michael Owen would be as humbling for the club as a video of Wenger getting spitroasted by RvP and Ferguson.

Jesus Christ, have IQ's fallen on here?

It was a fucking JOKE!

Christ...

It's they way you tell 'em

[highburyJD]

Holt, Lambert and Owen suggestions were all presumably 'jokes'
I'm with greengooner on this - the delivery was pretty weak

[northbank123]

Yeah and they tore Newcastle to shreds.

in the first 15 mins, after that Newcastle were well on top but missed lots of chances

I say they 'need' him because that's what the policy of the club is: we can't afford to let such a world class player piss off to another club when we could get him. I'd say that's been justified looking at how many points his goals have got them this season already, regardless of other areas that needed strengthening.

RVP has started well, I have no doubt in his abilities when fit.
On the other hand I do have significant doubt in his ability to stay fit.
They have given him a huge wage and a long term contract - would one good season justify 4 years at £10M each in wages alone? Especially when its almost guaranteed one of their other strikers will be forced out.

They are seriously light in central midfield - now reliant on perpetually ill Fletch, ancient Ginger ninja + paceless pervert winger, fat normally lame anderson and slightly under-rated Carrick (he's decent not shite). Buying a 4th striker 'regardless' screams board mismanagement to me

The only fucking market that Kroenke cares about is the Stock Exchange and the only statement he cares about is from his bank. We're going to get top 4 this year because Liverpool are even shitter than last year and Spurs lack quality and depth, plus we're a better team than last year. Explain to me why Kroenke would be compelled to allow tens of millions to be thrown around in Jan?

me and augie have both touched on it - what could compel Kroenke is commercial contract renewal. Theo is one of our most marketable players, and he may well leave. We need to strengthen the 'brand' internationally if we want to maximise shirt and sponsorship deals. Normally an unknown striker would be a little more our speed (and Wenger is arguably better at signing them) but if we want to squeeze the max out of sponsors a marque signing, a face, gives us some much needed extra leverage.

Fair point about the commercial contract deals, I'm just not convinced that splashing out £25m+ (minimum if you're talking about Llorente and double that for Falcao) AND £100k/w wages will significantly strengthen the value of Kroenke's shareholding in the mid- to long-term, although nobody on here is really in a position to say for sure. I would have said if he intended to do that though he might as well wait til next summer when he can balance it out by offloading players.

Regarding RvP, surely you're WUMing? I tried as much as anybody else to talk up the risks and still wish every day he picks up an injury that rules him out forever, but board mismanagement? Are you being serious? I try not to buy into this "without X's goals (and assists) Y would be Z points worse off" because it's a completely unrealistic statistic to throw around, but he's already single handedly won them games against Southampton and Cluj and scored ultimately decisive goals against Liverpool and Fulham and it's barely mid-October. Fair play there were (and are) risks involved in paying that fee and those wages for him but at the moment it's impossible to justify branding it "board mismanagement".

Talking about United's squad as a whole is bollocks because that's not what my point was about, it was responding to your claim that he was signed as a PR stunt. Lucky coincidence for them that he was the best player in Europe last year then (after Messi and Ronaldo) was it?

[highburyJD]

Fair point about the commercial contract deals, I'm just not convinced that splashing out £25m+ (minimum if you're talking about Llorente and double that for Falcao) AND £100k/w wages will significantly strengthen the value of Kroenke's shareholding in the mid- to long-term, although nobody on here is really in a position to say for sure. I would have said if he intended to do that though he might as well wait til next summer when he can balance it out by offloading players.

you're right that its difficult to quantify direct impact on negotiations (and, I think, wrong in your Llorente cost estimate)
but there's def a compound benefit if the additional squad depth enables us to push on and finally win a domestic cup
its that Feb/March cluster of CL/FA and League Cup games where our squad weakness has exposed us in the last few years

Regarding RvP, surely you're WUMing?

no, and despite being wrong loads I've never posted anything I didn't think when I posted it
find the suggestion slightly irritating tbh

I tried as much as anybody else to talk up the risks and still wish every day he picks up an injury that rules him out forever, but board mismanagement? Are you being serious?

totally - they are in desperate need of a solid midfielder. Even if they start to play Rooney deeper that effects the Kagawa and Powell signings - put those two wide (not where they've played before) and you displace Nani, Young and Valencia. They have a gaping hole in central midfield. Fergie, like Wenger, is fully locked into the owners now - their high wages include criticism deflection. But if that wasnt the case I think we'd be hearing a Benitezesque rant about wanting a sofa and being bought a lamp.

I try not to buy into this "without X's goals (and assists) Y would be Z points worse off" because it's a completely unrealistic statistic to throw around, but he's already single handedly won them games against Southampton and Cluj and scored ultimately decisive goals against Liverpool and Fulham and it's barely mid-October.

and the reason those stats are unrealistic is because if he wasn't playing somebody else would have been - its not impossible to imagine Rooney/Wellbeck/Chicarito killing off Cluj or Soton is it?

Fair play there were (and are) risks involved in paying that fee and those wages for him but at the moment it's impossible to justify branding it "board mismanagement".

obviously time will tell, maybe the Glazers are willing to go out and splash the cash - if in Jan they go out and buy Sneijder and Tiote as well then its more understandable (still think they needed mids in the summer). Personally I can't see it happening. So they have bought a world class striker, but they already had one that's nearly as good - Rooney, a natural finisher in Hernandez and a tireless worker in Wellbeck. They will now lose one of them. They will also overplay some ancient, injured or average midfielders.

Talking about United's squad as a whole is bollocks because that's not what my point was about,

but the whole squad is the whole point, manUre are not manShitty, they have finite resources - budget expended on vanStaplecunt cannot be spend where it's really needed, midfield

it was responding to your claim that he was signed as a PR stunt. Lucky coincidence for them that he was the best player in Europe last year then (after Messi and Ronaldo) was it?

never disputed his quality
up till his miss at 3-0 v Milan (early March) he was unstoppable, faded badly after that but what a season
Still see his signing as PR based not because RVPs no good - simply because their midfield is no good and their strikeforce was fine. Allocating resources is a key part of management, I think ManUre's squad is unbalanced.

[augie]

northbank123 can I just point out that Llorente will not cost anywhere near 25m in a transfer fee (excluding wages cos you talked about transfer fee) - that is not me advocating buying him but the facts are that he will have less than 6 months left on his contract and will be free to negotiate with any non spanish clubs from jan 1st

[DB10GOONER]

Holt, Lambert and Owen suggestions were all presumably 'jokes'
I'm with greengooner on this - the delivery was pretty weak

Take.

A.

Day.

Off.

[highburyJD]

judging by your hilarious jokes, japes and wisecracks
(we should sign Michael Owen.....
not really)
its you who needs the time off
can I suggest you spend it here http://comedycrashcourse.com/

newbie

[highburyJD]

augie's right about the fee, I don't think Bilbao pay huge wages either

[northbank123]

Duly noted about the purchase price of Llorente, didn't realise he was in the last 6 months of his contract. Surprised he stayed this summer to be honest. Surely he must be on our radar then? Although I doubt we'd be the only ones in for him if he was going cheap!

JD - No point in continuing down this blind alley. I was just challenging the assertion that RvP was a PR buy. I have no wish to debate the strengths and weaknesses of the United squad in great detail because I'm not a United fan. I would say that in my view your attitude is reflective of the current Arsenal board: instead of seeing a world-class player who genuinely can make the difference between winning things and not, you only see problems and where it will take money away from.

You know what, fuck finite resources. Buy the players you need AND a world-class player if he suddenly becomes available, give yourself every chance to win something and recoup the money next summer on transfers when you have a stronger squad (hopefully the player will pay for himself anyway). Yes, Chelsea, City, PSG & co have moved the goalposts blah blah, but we're a football club who turn a generally healthy profit and have limited leveraged debt compared with competitors. We don't have to balance the books every summer.

I fucking hate talking up United and saying we should be following their lead, it really hurts me to say something like that, but fact is they've been the benchmark for two decades while we've been off the radar for the last 7 years.

[I Hate Hleb]

Personally think Llorente is over-rated but a reason I doubt we'll buy him is that we've already got Giroud as the big, target man type and their styles are very similar.

[mikeyb772001]

If we dont try to get Llorente i wil be pissed off. He will be available for average money and no Huge club will be that fussed. The guy is good but Chavs, Citeh for example will be setting thier targets higher

[highburyJD]

I agree with IHH we already have Giroud as a targetman type striker
and despite being a bit of a 'name' Lllorente is hardy a big star, only a sometimes sub for Spain

the only real super star available is Falcao
and I think he's going for over 3x what we've ever paid for a player

need more painkillers - were has my barmy optimism gone?

[northbank123]

Falcao cost 40-47 million Euros, and he's been absolutely outstanding since moving to Atletico. They could rightly put 50% on top of that price.

Saying that, I remember seeing they are in ridiculous debt (to the tax authorities I think). Amazing how the tax authorities there seem happy to accept vague repayment plans over years but here the first sniff of an unpaid bill and they'll try and wind you up.

[highburyJD]

think at Atleti board member is basically touting him in the press for €60M but saying summer
maybe the £/€ exchange can also move in our favour