THE WENGER THREAD

[northbank123]

Realistically when Wenger goes they'll probably bring in somebody like Moyes: another boring fucker who's good at achieving mediocrity on a limited budget.

[highburyJD]

Wass all this a page or so back going on about we only had Utd to compete with back in the glory years? Now there is Utd, City and Chelsea.

Nuh-Uh girlfriend.

Back in the day there was a lavishly spending Liverpool and the cocaine binge hooker fest that was Leeds. Both paid out vast sums to try and challenge for the league title and couldn't get past us.

Back then Wenger had an edge. Today he's lost it. Through fear of trying to at least complete, through sheer bloody mindedness or through down right arrogance? Little from column A a little from column B and a little from column C for this mother fucker.

With the right kind of decent investment, keeping the best of the squads together and shipping out the deadwood, I reckon there were at least 2 of the last 5 titles that were winnable had we added just an extra 20% more.

Easily.

Wengers had it mates.

I agree with most of your analysis (not the why the edge was lost bit - that I attribute partially to our stadium based change in circumstances happening at the same time as Chelski's, and now ManShittys)
but not your conclusion

still hope/believe Wenger can rekindle the old flame

[OneBardGooner]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... indow.html

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger aims to sign new striker in January transfer window
Arsène Wenger has asked his network of scouts to search for another new striker ahead of the January transfer window as Arsenal continue the process of replacing Robin van Persie.

Although encouraged at how the goals have been spread more evenly around the team this season, Wenger would ideally still like further back-up to Olivier Giroud as the main centre-forward in his 4-2-3-1 system.
Wenger has specifically told his scouts to be on the look-out for potential new attacking options over the coming months, with Fernando Llorente, Adrián López, Robert Lewandowski and Stevan Jovetic among those being monitored.
The interest in signing another striker reflects an understanding that Giroud cannot be expected to instantly adapt to the Premier League, although his development over the next three months will inform how Wenger approaches the January market. Giroud scored his first Premier League goal in the 3-1 win at West Ham on Saturday but there is a sense that he was signed as the long-term alternative to Van Persie, rather than as the Dutchman’s immediate replacement.
Arsenal's proactive approach to January suggests that Wenger believes his squad is now close to challenging Chelsea and the two Manchester clubs. However, their established back-up to Giroud in the main striker’s role is limited.
Gervinho has performed encouragingly in Van Persie’s old position so far this season while Theo Walcott has publicly told Wenger that he now feels ready to be given a chance in that position. Lukas Podolski is another option but, like Gervinho and Walcott, is considered most effective in wide positions.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... radar.html

"Arsene Wenger will open his chequebook to land Robin van Persie’s long-term successor when the transfer window re-opens.
The Arsenal manager has instructed his global network of scouts to start identifying realistic forward targets the club can go for in January.
And Wenger, together with his backroom team, will hold a series of technical meetings where those players identified will be discussed and formalised into a shortlist.
Wenger has in the region of £35million to splash at the turn of the year and has made a new world-class centre-forward his top priority.

The Frenchman accepts he has not sufficiently replaced Van Persie after the Holland international moved to Premier League rivals Manchester United.
Despite claims to the contrary, Olivier Giroud’s capture was always viewed as an option to supplement the Arsenal attack rather than spearhead it.
It was hoped that Giroud would hit the ground running after his arrival, but the France international has scored just once in the Premier League.
Wenger has also tried Gervinho in the central striker role - and while the Ivory coast forward has impressed at times - Wenger is not convinced he is the answer.
Likewise, Lukas Podolski can be deployed as a conventional No 9 but Wenger feels the Germany international is best suited to the left-sided role he currently occupies.

Early contenders are Atletico Madrid striker Adrian Lopez, a player who has already been scouted intensively by Arsenal spies.
Athletic Bilbao forward Fernando Llorente is also highly-rated by Wenger. The Spain international is out of contract at the end of the season meaning he could be available at a cut-price fee.
Another option is Fiorentina forward Stevan Jovetic who has been on Arsenal’s radar for over 12 months, while Palermo’s Abel Hernandez has also been watched.
As Sportsmail revealed on Tuesday, the Gunners are also in the running to sign Crystal Palace’s Wilfried Zaha - though the 19-year-old is not viewed as a centre-forward.
Arsenal are also in the market for a goalkeeper to challenge No 1 Wojciech Szczesny in January. Wenger is keen on Swansea’s Michel Vorm.

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[Vinny1967]

Some interesting posts from peeps.

I reckon the vast majority of us agree that for the foreseeable future we will not be able to compete with the big spenders in the PL financially. We are not in a position to go out every year and spend 30/40/50 million a year. So we need someone who can compete while bringing youth thru and picking up bargains. IMO we have one of the the best in the world at that and I despair at the vitriol on here towards Wenger at times as its undeserving and a lot of the time without merit to be honest.

Personally I think Wenger went overboard with his youth project over the last few years in his belief that he could compete and win trophies and without a couple of injuries and a bit of luck we may have as we were competitive over that time.
The summer of 11 was an unmitigated disaster and I blame Wenger for not strengthening until the last day of the transfer window which led to a disaster of a season, especially the start. His faith he has put in goalkeepers is shoddy in the extreme and I wish he would have strengthened in the area down the years as Almunia et all are just not good enough. Goal keepers can win you a league and I can't remember a team winning the PL that has not had a class goalkeeper.

I also think his famous questionnaires don't accurately reflect a persons character. I believe we need leaders on the pitch and in previous years we have not had them. Do I want the Capt of the club sitting in the centre circle crying.........fuck no.

However I think Wenger has addressed some of these issues and his purchases this summer have been good. Now I look around the pitch and I see leaders from TV/Per to Pod/Santi & especially Arteta. The team seems to be gelling and developing as A Team and now we seem to have quality options throughout the squad.

I guess it all boils down to whether we believe that Wenger can reproduce the magic that he has brought us before or not.

I believe he can and I firmly believe he will not want his legacy at The Arsenal to end on a whimper.


P.S I fail to understand anyone calling for Moyes to replace him. Good manager but has spent more than Wenger in the transfer market without achieving his success.

[highburyJD]

+1
like
what he said
I'm with Vin

[SammyDroppedHisShorts]

Yes Vinny!!!

Sense

[DB10GOONER]

Ok, so some of you are prepared to hope he turns it around. Fair enough. How long exactly are you prepared to give him? He has failed to turn it around for 6 seasons now, making the same mistakes year after year. What's the cut off point? When he does a Cloughie on us?

Of course I don't believe he will get us relegated (before JD comes on here and takes that literally ) but my point is that alot of us have given up that hope some years ago and nothing has changed in the meantime. Wenger is past his sell by date as Arsenal manager.

Someone mentioned Moyes. Maybe he will be shit as a possible future Arsenal manager, maybe he'll be brilliant. No one knows. Personally I think he'd be shit. But that belief doesn't convince me we shouldn't try SOMEONE new. Wenger was a nobody when he joined us. Dein took a MASSIVE risk by appointing him and for 8 years it paid off handsomely. Who's to say the next "unknown" won't take the club to the next level? Or the one after that? The fact is Wenger has had 7 years since he last won a trophy and has failed year after year. Why should he be treated so leniently? Because of his early record with us? Makes no sense. In any other job repeated failure would not be condoned like this. I respect what he did with us in his first 8 years but those days are long gone.

We cannot sit innactive because we are paralysed by fear of the future.

[MM99]

With the current mentality that the Board has we will never win the premier league with or without Wenger.

Even if we got rid of Wenger and brought in a new man, we will never spend anything more than 20m on a single world class player. The best we would do is to buy decent players in the 15m region and ocassionally find a world class one in that region like we have with Cazorla. You can't win the league with decent players and 1 or 2 world class players. You need at least half the team to be world class.

Even if the new manager is given 2/3 years to put together a decent squad it will be the same old story just as the team begins to come good. Our best players will eventually leave for the lure of the big money or the club will get an offer it can't refuse.

As long as our rivals can go out in a transfer window and buy several world class players for 30m each whilst our record spending fee stays at 15-20m then nothing will change. We might win a cup or two but will never be a dominating force.

[g88ner]

You can't win the league with decent players and 1 or 2 world class players. You need at least half the team to be world class.

I'm not so sure.

United last season really should have won the league - they gifted it away in the final weeks.

And who were their world class players? - Rooney, yes. And, erm....?

Ferdinand, I suppose, although his bones seem to be creaking and he's getting on a bit. Vidic only made 6 appearances due to injury; Scholes made 14 starts. Evra, I suppose although United fans reckon he's not what he once was... Carrick? 37 year old Giggs? Nani? Ashley Young? Valencia?

I think United had 2 or 3 world class players, and lots of decent players. I reckon they made up for lack of star quality by having Fergie in charge - a man who seems to motivate and get the best out of his players.

[Number 5]

You can't win the league with decent players and 1 or 2 world class players. You need at least half the team to be world class.

I'm not so sure.

United last season really should have won the league - they gifted it away in the final weeks.

And who were their world class players? - Rooney, yes. And, erm....?

Ferdinand, I suppose, although his bones seem to be creaking and he's getting on a bit. Vidic only made 6 appearances due to injury; Scholes made 14 starts. Evra, I suppose although United fans reckon he's not what he once was... Carrick? 37 year old Giggs? Nani? Ashley Young? Valencia?

I think United had 2 or 3 world class players, and lots of decent players. I reckon they made up for lack of star quality by having Fergie in charge - a man who seems to motivate and get the best out of his players.

Single best thing I've ever read that didn't begin with:

I know everybody thinks these stories are made up, and so did I until one day me and my mate Dave were out on a delivery.............................

[MM99]

I'm not so sure.

United last season really should have won the league - they gifted it away in the final weeks.

And who were their world class players? - Rooney, yes. And, erm....?

Ferdinand, I suppose, although his bones seem to be creaking and he's getting on a bit. Vidic only made 6 appearances due to injury; Scholes made 14 starts. Evra, I suppose although United fans reckon he's not what he once was... Carrick? 37 year old Giggs? Nani? Ashley Young? Valencia?

I think United had 2 or 3 world class players, and lots of decent players. I reckon they made up for lack of star quality by having Fergie in charge - a man who seems to motivate and get the best out of his players.

I don't buy into this whole 'gifted it away' argument or any other excuses as to why one team won the league and the other didn't. Using your logic Arsenal 'should have' won the league in 2008 but for Eduardo's injury so does that mean Wenger actually has won a league title in the past seven years? Of course not.

Ultimately, Utd blew a massive lead they had over City and the team wasn't strong enough to win the league. Perhaps if they had a few more world class players then they would have won it comfortably.

Let us instead look at the team that actually did win it and the amount of world class players they had.
Hart, Kompany, Yaya Toure, Silva, Aguero, Tevez, Balotelli, Dzeko etc... That's 8 players off the top of my head that are real quality players.

If you can show me a team that has won the league in recent years with just one or two world class players i'll accept your argument.

[flash gunner]

I'm not so sure.

United last season really should have won the league - they gifted it away in the final weeks.

And who were their world class players? - Rooney, yes. And, erm....?

Ferdinand, I suppose, although his bones seem to be creaking and he's getting on a bit. Vidic only made 6 appearances due to injury; Scholes made 14 starts. Evra, I suppose although United fans reckon he's not what he once was... Carrick? 37 year old Giggs? Nani? Ashley Young? Valencia?

I think United had 2 or 3 world class players, and lots of decent players. I reckon they made up for lack of star quality by having Fergie in charge - a man who seems to motivate and get the best out of his players.

I don't buy into this whole 'gifted it away' argument or any other excuses as to why one team won the league and the other didn't. Using your logic Arsenal 'should have' won the league in 2008 but for Eduardo's injury so does that mean Wenger actually has won a league title in the past seven years? Of course not.

Ultimately, Utd blew a massive lead they had over City and the team wasn't strong enough to win the league. Perhaps if they had a few more world class players then they would have won it comfortably.

Let us instead look at the team that actually did win it and the amount of world class players they had.
Hart, Kompany, Yaya Toure, Silva, Aguero, Tevez, Balotelli, Dzeko etc... That's 8 players off the top of my head that are real quality players.

If you can show me a team that has won the league in recent years with just one or two world class players i'll accept your argument.

united 2011

[highburyJD]

Flash is right only great players in that team are Vidic and Rooney
But they had two absolute genius puppet masters creating the perfect scenarios for ManUre wins:
SlurAlex and Mike ManYoo Riley.

[MM99]

united 2011

Van Der Sar, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand (as he was back then), Scholes, Giggs, Berbatov, Rooney

That's more than two mate.

[Vinny1967]

Ok, so some of you are prepared to hope he turns it around. Fair enough. How long exactly are you prepared to give him? He has failed to turn it around for 6 seasons now, making the same mistakes year after year. What's the cut off point? When he does a Cloughie on us?

Of course I don't believe he will get us relegated (before JD comes on here and takes that literally ) but my point is that alot of us have given up that hope some years ago and nothing has changed in the meantime. Wenger is past his sell by date as Arsenal manager.

Someone mentioned Moyes. Maybe he will be shit as a possible future Arsenal manager, maybe he'll be brilliant. No one knows. Personally I think he'd be shit. But that belief doesn't convince me we shouldn't try SOMEONE new. Wenger was a nobody when he joined us. Dein took a MASSIVE risk by appointing him and for 8 years it paid off handsomely. Who's to say the next "unknown" won't take the club to the next level? Or the one after that? The fact is Wenger has had 7 years since he last won a trophy and has failed year after year. Why should he be treated so leniently? Because of his early record with us? Makes no sense. In any other job repeated failure would not be condoned like this. I respect what he did with us in his first 8 years but those days are long gone.

We cannot sit innactive because we are paralysed by fear of the future.

How long is a piece of string

Firstly re your contention that he has failed year on year. This seems to be trotted out with the usual bile about the man. How does one measure success and failure ? Failed at what and failed who ? His employers are fcuking delighted with him. Comparatively speaking it is hard to think of someone who has managed at the top level and achieved what he has. His Nett spend on transfers is something like 0 over the last ten years. We have been outspent by nearly everyone in the PL yet we still qualify for the CL. That's not failure. Failure is looking at Liverpool, Leeds, Villa, Newcastle and all these so called large clubs that we are outperforming year on year, while we are paying off debt. I would guarantee that the majority of supporters of these clubs would be delighted to have him as a manager.

I take your point about Moyes as no one knows whether he would be a success or not. However it is easier to compare Wenger to Moyes as they have longevity in the same league and Wenger has outperformed him consistently.

Personally I think his legacy will not be fully appreciated until long after he has gone. To steer the club thru the Grove with the finances involved and kept us competitive over that time has been phenomenal. I like that we are trying to pay off the stadium debt so future generations will feel the benefit of the work that is being done at the moment. That will be one of the legacies that he will have left us and again if you look at so called bigger clubs they are looking at us enviousy. Liverpool have spunked a couple of hundred million in the same time yet they are going backwards.

I think because of his frugality and stubborn trait's his mistakes are highlighted more. I wonder about people's attitudes if he spunked 30 million on a flop, spunked countless millions on big name signings that did not work out, fell out with two major shareholders, who he thought he could bully, which led the club down the road of 600 million in debt, oversaw a devon loch last season, spunked 7 million on a player he has not even watched and failed to qualify from the easiest group in CH League last year..............Oh yeah that's Ol Red nose. He is human and he has made mistakes and will continue to do so. The facts of the matter is Baba could have a field day on any football forum about the manager and the club in any league you can care to mention. Its not an exact science.

Do I like the youth structure under Wenger..........hell yeah. The team of 89/91 had 5/6 players that came thru our youth ranks and I loved that and hope we continue to concentrate on youth. (Although Graham and Arsenal never got the credit that Manure subsequently recd).
Do I want our club with a loan note from Abrahamavich for 4/5 hundred million........No thanks, not for me, but I can understand some wanting it.

Again it comes down to whether people believe he can still compete. I certainly dont think we have a divine right to win anything. I grew up watching Arsenal under Terry Neill and Don Howe
But I would like to think we can compete. I still believe the guy is a winner and he can bring us trophies again.
Whether we believe he can or not I certainly don't think he deserves some of the vitriol thrown at him.

COYG