As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
DarylAFC wrote:I really like Fabregas but I would hate it if he came back to us. His heart belongs to Barca and if we sign him what's stopping him leaving again? Besides, in Midfield we have great plyaers like Wilshere and Santi, so why drop one of them for Farbegas?
Yeah it would be shit to watch one of the best midfielders to play for the club come back and be paired up with Cazorla wouldn't it. His heart may have belonged to Barca when Guardiola was there but he's like all players - if he ain't playing regularly the love will soon disappear, and he would be welcome back any day in my book
If he wanted to leave Barca I doubt he'd get his head turned 6 months later to go back...
I don't want to sound like a delusional Liverpool fan or whatever getting excited about players that have moved on to better things coming back but IF IF IF IF IF he did ever want to come back I would pay for him to come back (provided that he flew budget with Vuelta to Cardiff and then had a 16-25 Railcard for the train to Paddington - I'm not made of money).
His heart wasn't in it last 6 months and that let us down but the situation dragged on so long and he gave us years of fantastic service. Oh, and he's a fucking amazing footballer. But as I said I'm not kidding myself into thinking it's going to happen in the foreseeable future, a lot would have to change for him to leave Barca.
1989 wrote:
I include the wide positions as midfield positions. Even when Iniesta came off yesterday for Torres, Cesc was still not playing in his supposed 'favored' position, and it was Cazorla who actually moved into Iniesta's role, while Cesc was just floating about in a free role.
I should start by saying this isn't a pop at Cazorla but......
using that rationale you would have to say that Cesc is a better forward than Torres or Llorente as recently he gets picked ahead of them more often than not!! Also, you forget to mention that Cazorla wasn't even in the starting line-up yesterday as David Silva was preferred, whereas Cesc was and is obviously considered important enough and good enough to play in more than one role. His performances for Spain over the past few years prove he has the ability to do it.
1989 wrote:
I include the wide positions as midfield positions. Even when Iniesta came off yesterday for Torres, Cesc was still not playing in his supposed 'favored' position, and it was Cazorla who actually moved into Iniesta's role, while Cesc was just floating about in a free role.
I should start by saying this isn't a pop at Cazorla but......
using that rationale you would have to say that Cesc is a better forward than Torres or Llorente as recently he gets picked ahead of them more often than not!! Also, you forget to mention that Cazorla wasn't even in the starting line-up yesterday as David Silva was preferred, whereas Cesc was and is obviously considered important enough and good enough to play in more than one role. His performances for Spain over the past few years prove he has the ability to do it.
I think with the way Spain play, Del Bosque probably thinks Cesc is the ideal forward for their system, not that he's actually a better forward than Torres or Llorente. As for Cazorla not starting, I didn't realize that because I only started watching the game at around the 20th minute mark. I presume he came on for Silva very early on.
The point you seem to be ignoring is that he rarely starts in midfield for Barcelona either.
1989 wrote:
I include the wide positions as midfield positions. Even when Iniesta came off yesterday for Torres, Cesc was still not playing in his supposed 'favored' position, and it was Cazorla who actually moved into Iniesta's role, while Cesc was just floating about in a free role.
I should start by saying this isn't a pop at Cazorla but......
using that rationale you would have to say that Cesc is a better forward than Torres or Llorente as recently he gets picked ahead of them more often than not!! Also, you forget to mention that Cazorla wasn't even in the starting line-up yesterday as David Silva was preferred, whereas Cesc was and is obviously considered important enough and good enough to play in more than one role. His performances for Spain over the past few years prove he has the ability to do it.
I think with the way Spain play, Del Bosque probably thinks Cesc is the ideal forward for their system, not that he's actually a better forward than Torres or Llorente. As for Cazorla not starting, I didn't realize that because I only started watching the game at around the 20th minute mark. I presume he came on for Silva very early on.
That's a bit of a climb down from your original statements, isn't it?
You said "I can tell you now Santi is ahead of Cesc in midfield" and that "Cesc isn't trusted in midfield anymore", yet now you're admitting that "Del Bosque probably thinks Cesc is the ideal forward for their system"... so perhaps it's not that he's not trusted in midfield, it's more that Del Bosque thinks he's the IDEAL FORWARD for their system? - that's a very different thing, mate.
Basically, the way Cesc is used is pretty much the same way Barcelona use Messi, as a false number 9. That could be for many reasons, it could be for his suitability to play in that role for the system Spain play, or for a lack of trust in him carrying out his midfield duties in the manner required. I think it's a combination of both. I remember Guardiola saying that Cesc was too careless in midfield and had no defensive awareness or tactical discipline. Cesc is used as a back up for Messi in the false 9 role for Barcelona as well, that's why he finds himself warming the bench for them these days. They even pick Thiago ahead of him when Xavi or Iniesta are unavailable.
1989 wrote:Basically, the way Cesc is used is pretty much the same way Barcelona use Messi, as a false number 9. That could be for many reasons, it could be for his suitability to play in that role for the system Spain play, or for a lack of trust in him carrying out his midfield duties in the manner required. I think it's a combination of both. I remember Guardiola saying that Cesc was too careless in midfield and had no defensive awareness or tactical discipline. Cesc is used as a back up for Messi in the false 9 role for Barcelona as well, that's why he finds himself warming the bench for them these days. They even pick Thiago ahead of him when Xavi or Iniesta are unavailable.
Ok, I concede, I was wrong (Cesc was moaning about not getting games a few weeks ago so I assumed he was being benched). But my point about him being behind Santi in the Spanish midfield pecking order stands.
DarylAFC wrote:I really like Fabregas but I would hate it if he came back to us. His heart belongs to Barca and if we sign him what's stopping him leaving again? Besides, in Midfield we have great plyaers like Wilshere and Santi, so why drop one of them for Farbegas?
Yeah it would be shit to watch one of the best midfielders to play for the club come back and be paired up with Cazorla wouldn't it. His heart may have belonged to Barca when Guardiola was there but he's like all players - if he ain't playing regularly the love will soon disappear, and he would be welcome back any day in my book
IMO a midfield with Oxo, Arteta, Wilshere and Cazorla is worth risking not resigning cesc in my book. As I said, I'm a big Cesc fa but what's the point of bringing him back if it's always going to be in hismin that "I failed at Barca". Arsenal, to Cesc, is like the fat bird you shag when the love of your life dumps you. I really hope cesc makes it at Barca, really do. But if IF he comes back to us, I;d welcome hi, but I;d always be worrying that his mindset and heart isn't in it.
DarylAFC wrote:I really like Fabregas but I would hate it if he came back to us. His heart belongs to Barca and if we sign him what's stopping him leaving again? Besides, in Midfield we have great plyaers like Wilshere and Santi, so why drop one of them for Farbegas?
Yeah it would be shit to watch one of the best midfielders to play for the club come back and be paired up with Cazorla wouldn't it. His heart may have belonged to Barca when Guardiola was there but he's like all players - if he ain't playing regularly the love will soon disappear, and he would be welcome back any day in my book
IMO a midfield with Oxo, Arteta, Wilshere and Cazorla is worth risking not resigning cesc in my book. As I said, I'm a big Cesc fa but what's the point of bringing him back if it's always going to be in hismin that "I failed at Barca". Arsenal, to Cesc, is like the fat bird you shag when the love of your life dumps you. I really hope cesc makes it at Barca, really do. But if IF he comes back to us, I;d welcome hi, but I;d always be worrying that his mindset and heart isn't in it.
I don't see it like that at all. Bergkamp was average at Inter, Henry was less than average at Juventus, Vieira didn't make the grade at AC Milan. Its hardly a disgrace to go to probably the finest club side in the modern era, win a few cups but not quite be up to the standards of some of the finest midfielders to play the game
In my view Cesc genuinely cares about Arsenal. Barca fans even gave him a bit of stick when he first joined because he talked about us a lot.
I think if he ever did come back he'd give it nothing but his very best. He's a decent fella in my book
DarylAFC wrote:I really like Fabregas but I would hate it if he came back to us. His heart belongs to Barca and if we sign him what's stopping him leaving again? Besides, in Midfield we have great plyaers like Wilshere and Santi, so why drop one of them for Farbegas?
Yeah it would be shit to watch one of the best midfielders to play for the club come back and be paired up with Cazorla wouldn't it. His heart may have belonged to Barca when Guardiola was there but he's like all players - if he ain't playing regularly the love will soon disappear, and he would be welcome back any day in my book
IMO a midfield with Oxo, Arteta, Wilshere and Cazorla is worth risking not resigning cesc in my book. As I said, I'm a big Cesc fa but what's the point of bringing him back if it's always going to be in hismin that "I failed at Barca". Arsenal, to Cesc, is like the fat bird you shag when the love of your life dumps you. I really hope cesc makes it at Barca, really do. But if IF he comes back to us, I;d welcome hi, but I;d always be worrying that his mindset and heart isn't in it.
I don't see it like that at all. Bergkamp was average at Inter, Henry was less than average at Juventus, Vieira didn't make the grade at AC Milan. Its hardly a disgrace to go to probably the finest club side in the modern era, win a few cups but not quite be up to the standards of some of the finest midfielders to play the game
In my view Cesc genuinely cares about Arsenal. Barca fans even gave him a bit of stick when he first joined because he talked about us a lot.
I think if he ever did come back he'd give it nothing but his very best. He's a decent fella in my book
Agree with this. Looking back at all the players who ultimately showed complete ambivalence to AFC or even shafted us, Fabregas never saw us as a cash cow or a stepping stone. You could tell from the way he used to get in pricks faces, the likes of Cole, Lampard and Ferdinand especially, and how animated he always was, that he cared about the club (and still does). Without him in the side 2007-2010 we would have been fucking shite and awful to watch (and to the negative ones out there I mean proper shite not 3rd/4th place shite). He carried us for years, in that period we had a few good months off Adebayor, Nasri and Arshavin and that was really it other than Cesc being consistently world class. I fucking love Fabregas, he's absolutely world class and a Gooner, adopted or not, there are very very few players I would rather sign. Arteta is 30, the Ox is still an unknown quantity in central midfield (and generally long-term) and I would just be happy if Wilshere stays more or less fit for the next 18 months so I think you're mental if you wouldn't take him back on the basis of our current options looking to the future.
Think people are crazy almost writing him off as a failure there. He went to a club with Xavi and Iniesta still in the process of pissing on all and sundry across Europe and because he didn't immediately take one of their places and narrowly missed out on La Liga and the Champions League he's a failure? Get some perspective.
He's starting regularly now in a key role for them, they already have La Liga more or less tied up before November, he was an integral player in Spain winning the Euros and who wouldn't bet against him racking up numerous CL and LL titles in a more settled and familiar role, particularly when Xavi finally moves on?
DarylAFC wrote:I really like Fabregas but I would hate it if he came back to us. His heart belongs to Barca and if we sign him what's stopping him leaving again? Besides, in Midfield we have great plyaers like Wilshere and Santi, so why drop one of them for Farbegas?
Yeah it would be shit to watch one of the best midfielders to play for the club come back and be paired up with Cazorla wouldn't it. His heart may have belonged to Barca when Guardiola was there but he's like all players - if he ain't playing regularly the love will soon disappear, and he would be welcome back any day in my book
IMO a midfield with Oxo, Arteta, Wilshere and Cazorla is worth risking not resigning cesc in my book. As I said, I'm a big Cesc fa but what's the point of bringing him back if it's always going to be in hismin that "I failed at Barca". Arsenal, to Cesc, is like the fat bird you shag when the love of your life dumps you. I really hope cesc makes it at Barca, really do. But if IF he comes back to us, I;d welcome hi, but I;d always be worrying that his mindset and heart isn't in it.
I don't see it like that at all. Bergkamp was average at Inter, Henry was less than average at Juventus, Vieira didn't make the grade at AC Milan. Its hardly a disgrace to go to probably the finest club side in the modern era, win a few cups but not quite be up to the standards of some of the finest midfielders to play the game
In my view Cesc genuinely cares about Arsenal. Barca fans even gave him a bit of stick when he first joined because he talked about us a lot.
I think if he ever did come back he'd give it nothing but his very best. He's a decent fella in my book
Agree with this. Looking back at all the players who ultimately showed complete ambivalence to AFC or even shafted us, Fabregas never saw us as a cash cow or a stepping stone. You could tell from the way he used to get in pricks faces, the likes of Cole, Lampard and Ferdinand especially, and how animated he always was, that he cared about the club (and still does). Without him in the side 2007-2010 we would have been fucking shite and awful to watch (and to the negative ones out there I mean proper shite not 3rd/4th place shite). He carried us for years, in that period we had a few good months off Adebayor, Nasri and Arshavin and that was really it other than Cesc being consistently world class. I fucking love Fabregas, he's absolutely world class and a Gooner, adopted or not, there are very very few players I would rather sign. Arteta is 30, the Ox is still an unknown quantity in central midfield (and generally long-term) and I would just be happy if Wilshere stays more or less fit for the next 18 months so I think you're mental if you wouldn't take him back on the basis of our current options looking to the future.
Think people are crazy almost writing him off as a failure there. He went to a club with Xavi and Iniesta still in the process of pissing on all and sundry across Europe and because he didn't immediately take one of their places and narrowly missed out on La Liga and the Champions League he's a failure? Get some perspective.
He's starting regularly now in a key role for them, they already have La Liga more or less tied up before November, he was an integral player in Spain winning the Euros and who wouldn't bet against him racking up numerous CL and LL titles in a more settled and familiar role, particularly when Xavi finally moves on?
Just to clarify, if we signed Cesc I wouldn't be upset by it, infact you'd be hard pressed to find someone happier. There is not question over his support or commitment when he was with us at first. I dont doubt that he'd give it 110% with us if he does return. My only fear is that he wont be as good as he was first time around. Though in reality we will never find out as we wont resign him
Bitter or not (and I don't think we really should be), we'd be fools not to take Cesc back, especially if we got him relatively cheap. He is world class. Cazorla has been fantastic for what, a month or two? Cesc was a proven competitor for season after season. Would take him back in a heart beat. Frankly the two of them together would be sensational.
Barriecuda wrote:Bitter or not (and I don't think we really should be), we'd be fools not to take Cesc back, especially if we got him relatively cheap. He is world class. Cazorla has been fantastic for what, a month or two? Cesc was a proven competitor for season after season. Would take him back in a heart beat. Frankly the two of them together would be sensational.
Hmmmm. I reckon that a swap Cazorla/Fabregas plus cash might happen sometime. >shit stirrer<
Barriecuda wrote:Bitter or not (and I don't think we really should be), we'd be fools not to take Cesc back, especially if we got him relatively cheap. He is world class. Cazorla has been fantastic for what, a month or two? Cesc was a proven competitor for season after season. Would take him back in a heart beat. Frankly the two of them together would be sensational.
I agree Barriecuda - I hold no grudge against Cesc, he was a shining light for many seasons in amongst a cess pool of shit and he single handedly kept us competitive for bout 3 seasons.
I think he will return, but sadly not for another 3/4 seasons.
I can't believe how much bitterness some have for Cesc. We all knew he would go back to Barca, if we had signed some class players to share the burden we may have won a trophy or two along the way and we may look back with better memories.
Also, you forget to mention that Cazorla wasn't even in the starting line-up yesterday as David Silva was preferred, whereas Cesc was and is obviously considered important enough and good enough to play in more than one role. His performances for Spain over the past few years prove he has the ability to do it.
