As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
SteveO 35 wrote:So TV5 who played well last season but has not played well this season should be dropped in favour of.....
Koscielny who played well last season but has not played well this season.
That's me told.
Can't be bothered arguing the point anymore. If you think that improving our defence and the morale of the team will come from dropping our captain in favour of a bloke last seen scratching his head when Jason Roberts turned him inside out before scoring ANOTHER own goal, then fine. We'll leave it there. You'll get your wish in time because everyone is getting on Vermaelen's case and making him and Ramsey the two scapegoats for everything, and we'll come back here when the dream team of Mertesacker and Koscielny are putting their bodies on the line for the team and compare notes
Didn't notice that. I thought Wenger was to blame.
Now if you'd show me where I said anything about Rambo I might take you a bit more seriously...............
None of our three main centre backs are playing well.
Many questions:
Injuries would have had an effect but has a change in coaching caused the defensive drill to be deconstructed, but yet to be replaced by a well practiced new one?
Has Gooner.Ed got a point when he says Gallas was the last Arsenal player to effectively marshall our defence?
Should Vermaelen be tried next to Arteta in Wilshere's absence?
Should Vermaelen be used as left back until Gibbs returns?
Is Szczesny's absence causing the defence to be unsettled?
Is Zonal Marking a waste of time?
Right now I have few answers but I dislike Zonal Marking for our team as it does not seem to produce results.
Well done you - so you've brought up a quote from when a bloke was playing well last season !! So that automatically means we forget present form and stick him in the side now then
By that token, the next time Wilshere has a poor game we should drop him and bring in Rosicky because he played really well six months ago.
What's your point?
If we are going on present form then TV5 should deffo be dropped.
Fine - if we had a player to bring on who 'on present form' merited selection. When TV5 produces anything as shambolic as Koscielny served up at the Madejski, I will agree with you. Honestly, I'm genuinely not trying to big up Vermaelen here. I just think that Koscielny has looked even worse when he's played this season. That then leaves Djourou, Squidgy and Miquel
QuartzGooner wrote:None of our three main centre backs are playing well.
Many questions:
Injuries would have had an effect but has a change in coaching caused the defensive drill to be deconstructed, but yet to be replaced by a well practiced new one?
Has Gooner.Ed got a point when he says Gallas was the last Arsenal player to effectively marshall our defence?
Yes he has - there are no leaders in our defence whatsoever, but we all know that 'captaincy is overplayed'
Should Vermaelen be tried next to Arteta in Wilshere's absence?
Definitely not
Should Vermaelen be used as left back until Gibbs returns? Possibly yes, but it still won't strengthen the CB position
Is Szczesny's absence causing the defence to be unsettled? Possibly - Mannone made a couple of decent stops today but his judgement on coming off his line and at set plays is awful
Is Zonal Marking a waste of time? Not if it's done properly. One of the laziest arguments in football - as if man-to-man marking works everytime !
Right now I have few answers but I dislike Zonal Marking for our team as it does not seem to produce results.
Putting aside TV's own poor performances, I'm just as disappointed - if not more so - at his apparent lack of leadership skills. Where is the talking to and, when necessary, bollocking of the players? Where is the on-pitch organisational advice and demands for more effort from his team mates? Why isn't he taking charge of the on-field stuff like most good leaders do? Seems like, just as with his defensive abilities, we may well have mistakenly over-estimated them.
I Hate Hleb wrote:Putting aside TV's own poor performances, I'm just as disappointed - if not more so - at his apparent lack of leadership skills. Where is the talking to and, when necessary, bollocking of the players? Where is the on-pitch organisational advice and demands for more effort from his team mates? Why isn't he taking charge of the on-field stuff like most good leaders do? Seems like, just as with his defensive abilities, we may well have mistakenly over-estimated them.
Never mind all that nonsense, is he going to organise a ten pin bowling night for the boys to have a night out bonding ?
QuartzGooner wrote:None of our three main centre backs are playing well.
Woah woah woah.
Aside from the fact that I felt he was largely at fault for the manc second goal Mertesacker is and has been holding our backline together single handed. The rest of the team is an utter shambles defensively, Mertesacker is the main reason our defensive stats are misleadingly impressive.
I agree Mertesacker is doing the best of the three main centre backs, but he gets beaten in the air too easily for me.
He is playing above average for me, sometimes 5, sometimes 6, sometimes 7 out of 10, but I think he is still short of putting in good performances on a consistent basis - no 8's, 9's, or 10's from me yet I am afraid.
TV has had one good season his first when he played alongside Gallas
last season he played alongside Kos and we conceded 49goals.TV's problem is his lack of defencive discipline.He's a CB not an attacking midfielder.At Norwich and Utd he was caught on the halfway line fucking about
The evidence shows both TV and Kos have been poor since Bould came in
I agree with QG on the Mert take a look at Utd's 2nd goal 6ft 7in totally missed the ball in the air and 4ft 6in Evra heads in
QuartzGooner wrote:I agree Mertesacker is doing the best of the three main centre backs, but he gets beaten in the air too easily for me.
He is playing above average for me, sometimes 5, sometimes 6, sometimes 7 out of 10, but I think he is still short of putting in good performances on a consistent basis - no 8's, 9's, or 10's from me yet I am afraid.
Agreed. Seems like you only have to be average to be highly praised as an Arsenal CB these days. He leaves Vermaelen to always do the rough stuff, often giving away a massive height advantage because the bloke doesn't fancy the rough stuff himself. I suppose it was Vermaelen's fault he was marking 2 players when Evra scored - where was Mertesacker? In the same daydream he was in when Huntelaar escaped him
Mert is shit in the air for such a big bloke, agreed. But on Saturday what really led to that second goal for me was this stupid fucking zonal marking shit Wenger is insisting on.
Is he doing it in some insidious way to make Bould look bad or something? Bouldy comes in and "Ey! Look at zis... we are ztill zhipping ze goals heh? Do yer wernt Urncle Arsene to zave ze day, huh? I am ze genius yer kner..."
But seriously, zonal ONLY works if you have incredibly well disciplined top drawer defenders to execute it. NONE of our defenders are any of those things.
DB10GOONER wrote:Mert is shit in the air for such a big bloke, agreed. But on Saturday what really led to that second goal for me was this stupid fucking zonal marking shit Wenger is insisting on.
Is he doing it in some insidious way to make Bould look bad or something? Bouldy comes in and "Ey! Look at zis... we are ztill zhipping ze goals heh? Do yer wernt Urncle Arsene to zave ze day, huh? I am ze genius yer kner..."
But seriously, zonal ONLY works if you have incredibly well disciplined top drawer defenders to execute it. NONE of our defenders are any of those things.
I just dont get this zonal bollocks either mate!!! What is so hard about picking up and marking a player and sticking with him? Its got to be the most simple thing to implement FFS..... Keeping things simple has got to be the first step
DB10GOONER wrote:Mert is shit in the air for such a big bloke, agreed. But on Saturday what really led to that second goal for me was this stupid fucking zonal marking shit Wenger is insisting on.
Is he doing it in some insidious way to make Bould look bad or something? Bouldy comes in and "Ey! Look at zis... we are ztill zhipping ze goals heh? Do yer wernt Urncle Arsene to zave ze day, huh? I am ze genius yer kner..."
But seriously, zonal ONLY works if you have incredibly well disciplined top drawer defenders to execute it. NONE of our defenders are any of those things.
I just dont get this zonal bollocks either mate!!! What is so hard about picking up and marking a player and sticking with him? Its got to be the most simple thing to implement FFS..... Keeping things simple has got to be the first step
Amen.
Zonal is shit. It's one of those things that came from fucking Europe or somewhere where some statastician or some other kúnt came up with it as a theory . It goes against a player's instincts to guard one area of pitch when in every other area/apect of the game they track/tackle/mark the oppo player. It's human nature to go for the player, not stand there and watch him get a running start at you. Fucking idiotic shit.
Where is the talking to and, when necessary, bollocking of the players? Where is the on-pitch organisational advice and demands for more effort from his team mates? Why isn't he taking charge of the on-field stuff like most good leaders do? 
Seems like, just as with his defensive abilities, we may well have mistakenly over-estimated them. 
. It goes against a player's instincts to guard one area of pitch when in every other area/apect of the game they track/tackle/mark the oppo player. It's human nature to go for the player, not stand there and watch him get a running start at you. Fucking idiotic shit. 