As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Mike1 wrote:In general our fans were terrific again at OT and as someone has pointed out, they deserve so much better.
However, some of the songs directed at our former player crossed the line in my opinion. I don't believe we can complain about some of the songs sung at our manager over the years if we're then going to lower ourselves to their level by singing songs making suggestions of rape and paedophilia.
We lost the moral high ground yesterday in my opinion. The quote which if often attributed to Rocky - Remember who we are and who we represent - applies to the fans just as much as the players. Perhaps more so, because we're the ones who stick around.
When I aired this view on Twitter yesterday, I quickly got told I was a "modern fan" by someone who was 19 and it was "banter". If that's what people regard as banter thesedays then society is in a lot of trouble. Fortunately, I don't think that is the majority view, but it's amazing how loud the minority can be at times.
I'm not ashamed to say I was one of many who joined in with "that" song.
To me, it's not just banter, but expressing our feeling for that prick. Last year, we loved him. He was our hero and our Talisman. Then he leaves for "footballing reasons" but he respects the fans. OK fair enough. But then e joing United? Really? In his 8 years at the club, 7 years sat on the treatment table, did he not realise that maybe Arsenal and united slightly hate each other! By singing that to him, it shows him how little he means to us now, How little we respect him. This is how I view it anyway.
For me posts like this show how bitter gooners have become over this issue, quite frankly I think some of the chants we directed at RVP where way out of order and show a complete lack of class. As someone else said how can we complain about the wenger chants that come from manure and spurs fans. RVP has exposed the fundamental problems in our club we should direct our anger at the board not ex players who quite frankly have the right to play where they want. We are not any sort of competition for manure at the moment so why make a big deal out of it. RVP also has never criticised gooners even aftare the abuse he got on saturday. Hes no cashley, ade or nasri so have a bit of respect.
Bitter and proud me
I hate the . I don't hate him for leaving, but going to them lot is unforgiveable. Only going to Tottscum would be worse in my eyes.
So Cashley going to the Chav's is alright then?
Time get over it and to move on we sound like the Spuds who still go on about Sol
Mike1 wrote:In general our fans were terrific again at OT and as someone has pointed out, they deserve so much better.
However, some of the songs directed at our former player crossed the line in my opinion. I don't believe we can complain about some of the songs sung at our manager over the years if we're then going to lower ourselves to their level by singing songs making suggestions of rape and paedophilia.
We lost the moral high ground yesterday in my opinion. The quote which if often attributed to Rocky - Remember who we are and who we represent - applies to the fans just as much as the players. Perhaps more so, because we're the ones who stick around.
When I aired this view on Twitter yesterday, I quickly got told I was a "modern fan" by someone who was 19 and it was "banter". If that's what people regard as banter thesedays then society is in a lot of trouble. Fortunately, I don't think that is the majority view, but it's amazing how loud the minority can be at times.
I'm not ashamed to say I was one of many who joined in with "that" song.
To me, it's not just banter, but expressing our feeling for that prick. Last year, we loved him. He was our hero and our Talisman. Then he leaves for "footballing reasons" but he respects the fans. OK fair enough. But then e joing United? Really? In his 8 years at the club, 7 years sat on the treatment table, did he not realise that maybe Arsenal and united slightly hate each other! By singing that to him, it shows him how little he means to us now, How little we respect him. This is how I view it anyway.
For me posts like this show how bitter gooners have become over this issue, quite frankly I think some of the chants we directed at RVP where way out of order and show a complete lack of class. As someone else said how can we complain about the wenger chants that come from manure and spurs fans. RVP has exposed the fundamental problems in our club we should direct our anger at the board not ex players who quite frankly have the right to play where they want. We are not any sort of competition for manure at the moment so why make a big deal out of it. RVP also has never criticised gooners even aftare the abuse he got on saturday. Hes no cashley, ade or nasri so have a bit of respect.
Bitter and proud me
I hate the . I don't hate him for leaving, but going to them lot is unforgiveable. Only going to Tottscum would be worse in my eyes.
So Cashley going to the Chav's is alright then?
Time get over it and to move on we sound like the Spuds who still go on about Sol
how do u know rvp didnt release that stement to force the clubs hand over signing better players? had he wanted cash he would have gone to city. what he said was true. its reached a point where he had to say it, otherwise he would just be sat at arsenal with 0 chance of winning anything in his career.
I personally don't think he deserves all the abuse he got. He is not in the same league as the others who left under a cloud. I get the argument about us standing by him when injured, but is his part of the bargain to stay with us and accept he will never win a trophy? Lets not forget who sold him to the highest bidder.....we held the cards here and chose to sell him to Manure....
It seems that alot of people on here are saying it’s EITHER VanJudas OR Wenger that are to blame and only one of them has fucked us over.
For me it’s BOTH of them.
Wenger for selling our best player to what should be (but obviously isn’t anymore) one of our rivals, and particularly one that we’ve had some bitter history with over the last 15 years or so, and whose “fans” are some of the cuntiest mong wankers on the planet.
VanJudas shares in the blame for taking a huge wage for 7 years of non-stop injury, contributing barely fuck all, then having one fantastic season and SUDDENLY deciding that we are not good enough anymore and conflict with his ideas on how the club is run and our vision for the future etc. Why could he not decide that and look for a move two or three years ago? We are in the exact same position now more or less as then. Why now? Why not then? Oh, is it because suddenly you have had one blinding season and no recent long term injuries and your price/choice of new employers is on the up? Of course it fucking is.
Anyone that thinks VanJudas is innocent in this is being just a bit naive I reckon.
Van Persie was injured alot 2 years ago & therefore has no right to improve his situation.
He has a payrise. He is at a better club. He is playing for the most successful manager in history who doesn't accept 2nd best. His team-mates include the likes of Rooney, Vidic, Scholes & Giggs.
SouthCoastArsenal wrote:Van Persie was injured alot 2 years ago & therefore has no right to improve his situation.
Wake up. He is not a 'Judas'.
No one said that though did they? And it's not actually fully true either is it?
Out of his 8 seasons with us he spent a large part of 7 seasons injured. He gave us only ONE full PL season and only ONCE scored more than 20 PL goals. That is a terrible return for the huge wage we paid him. Yet still Arsenal (and the frustrated fans) stood loyal by him even though his contribution for many of those seasons was next to nothing. FFS - for 4 of those injury prone seasons he scored less than 10 PL goals per season!
He certainly has the right to improve his situation, but that doesn't change the fact he manipulated a move away from the club that stood by him through his non-performance, paid him huge wages for not much return, the same club he was always talking up as "his" club. If that is not the work of a Judas I'm fucked if I know what is!
Loyalty cuts both ways.
As I said, I also blame Wenger for this, but to portray VanJudas as some sort of decent chap that only left for pure and honourable reasons is bullshit.
I get your points DB10, but I can't understand some fans rationale with players having 'loyalty'.
There is no such thing in Football, it died years ago.
With regards to RVP, it could be argued that injuries have deprived him of the best part of his career & therefore he is trying to grasp the opportunity to reap the success his ability deserves before he retires.
And unfortunately, we all know that he has a much better chance of doing that in Manchester than here
SouthCoastArsenal wrote:I get your points DB10, but I can't understand some fans rationale with players having 'loyalty'.
There is no such thing in Football, it died years ago.
With regards to RVP, it could be argued that injuries have deprived him of the best part of his career & therefore he is trying to grasp the opportunity to reap the success his ability deserves before he retires.
And unfortunately, we all know that he has a much better chance of doing that in Manchester than here
I see what you mean. I agree there is no loyalty in the modern game.
But I do reserve the right to be offended and pissed off by these modern day mercenary bastards, mate!
One thing we surely all agree on is that its fucking heartbreaking seeing him carrying on last season's form for that lot isn't it?
I just wonder the next time we'll see another Arsenal striker make that sort of impact in a season. We haven't produced of our own in that department in the whole of Wenger's reign, the days when we could pinch the top kids like Anelka have gone and I just can't see us ever shelling out for a Falcao, Benzema etc.
I know its a very simplistic argument but Van Perise is the reason why United can be challenging on all fronts this season as opposed to last season, and the reason why we are going to be worse off. That's why top strikers still command £24m at 29 yrs old with 12 months left on their contract. United were prepared to pay that money knowing that injuries permitting they had a guy that would take their team up a level. There's no real difference in financial reward between 1st and 2nd - about £800K in prize money - but United will not settle for 2nd. We on the other hand look at it from a pure economic view and if we are comfortable we'll still finish 4th then why spend any more money coming 1st?
SteveO 35 wrote:One thing we surely all agree on is that its fucking heartbreaking seeing him carrying on last season's form for that lot isn't it?
I just wonder the next time we'll see another Arsenal striker make that sort of impact in a season. We haven't produced of our own in that department in the whole of Wenger's reign, the days when we could pinch the top kids like Anelka have gone and I just can't see us ever shelling out for a Falcao, Benzema etc.
I know its a very simplistic argument but Van Perise is the reason why United can be challenging on all fronts this season as opposed to last season, and the reason why we are going to be worse off. That's why top strikers still command £24m at 29 yrs old with 12 months left on their contract. United were prepared to pay that money knowing that injuries permitting they had a guy that would take their team up a level. There's no real difference in financial reward between 1st and 2nd - about £800K in prize money - but United will not settle for 2nd. We on the other hand look at it from a pure economic view and if we are comfortable we'll still finish 4th then why spend any more money coming 1st?
It's ridiculous how much he's carried them already this season. I never really buy into all that "worst United team ever" because apart from 3 when we were quality and Chelsea were as well they're always right up there. But he's carried them so much already this season, worth so much more than £24m.
SteveO 35 wrote:One thing we surely all agree on is that its fucking heartbreaking seeing him carrying on last season's form for that lot isn't it?
I just wonder the next time we'll see another Arsenal striker make that sort of impact in a season. We haven't produced of our own in that department in the whole of Wenger's reign, the days when we could pinch the top kids like Anelka have gone and I just can't see us ever shelling out for a Falcao, Benzema etc.
I know its a very simplistic argument but Van Perise is the reason why United can be challenging on all fronts this season as opposed to last season, and the reason why we are going to be worse off. That's why top strikers still command £24m at 29 yrs old with 12 months left on their contract. United were prepared to pay that money knowing that injuries permitting they had a guy that would take their team up a level. There's no real difference in financial reward between 1st and 2nd - about £800K in prize money - but United will not settle for 2nd. We on the other hand look at it from a pure economic view and if we are comfortable we'll still finish 4th then why spend any more money coming 1st?
It's ridiculous how much he's carried them already this season. I never really buy into all that "worst United team ever" because apart from 3 when we were quality and Chelsea were as well they're always right up there. But he's carried them so much already this season, worth so much more than £24m.
But not in Stan and Ivan's basic financial model. Difference between finishing 1st and 3rd last season in terms of prize money around £1.7m. So if you can make tens of millions in transfer profits then why reinvest if you keep repeating the trick. Winning the CL will take substantial investment which will never come and rarely do we get beyond the QF stage. So keep it safe, make a profit, store it as a contingency fund in case you don't qualify and if you do then award yourself a large dividend (which will come if we qualify again)
High scoring strikers are worth their weight in gold.
The difference between Rednose and Arsene is Arsene tries so hard to show he is a genius by "developing" players over a 5 to 6 year period that it's often to the detriment of the team when it turns out his faith in them was misplaced and they are nothing more than average or even shit. He seems incapable of thinking I need a striker to get us through this season so I'll sign one. Arsene seems to believe that some mythical day in the far future all these average players he has signed and persisted with will somehow miraculously come good - and all at the same time - and we'll suddenly dominate world football because we try to play attractive football and thus the world owes us something. He's a fantasist.
Rednose on the other hand is a pragmatist, and is capable of seeing the bigger picture, and on a short term basis when needed. If he is lacking a top scorer but there are no really top quality long term options available to him, he'll take a risk on splashing £24 Million on an injury prone short term option striker like VanJudas, fully knowing that he is currently at the peak of his game, and even if he only gets one great season out of him he'll probably be one of the main reasons that his team win the PL or the CL, making them a more attractive proposition for other top players to then sign.
What does modern Arsenal under Wenger offer as an inducement to top class players? "Hey come and play inneffective tippy tappy with average players who've won fucking nothing, at a club whose manager honestly thinks finishing 4th is better than all but 2 of the available 4 trophies".
and it was "banter". If that's what people regard as banter thesedays then society is in a lot of trouble. Fortunately, I don't think that is the majority view, but it's amazing how loud the minority can be at times.
. I don't hate him for leaving, but going to them lot is unforgiveable. Only going to Tottscum would be worse in my eyes.
