THE WENGER THREAD

[Steve_I]

Fair points well said North although I have to disagree regarding Wenger neglecting the FA Cup throughout his reign. Winning it 4 times if neglecting it makes me think he is even better than I think

[northbank123]

I was talking about the League Cup mate, I thought that was what you were on about. I'd love to win either, we're not above them as our barren run shows. But Wenger has always treated the League Cup as the Reserves Cup and has never really been that concerned about the FA Cup.

Deep down we all know he'd rather finish 4th than win the FA Cup, and over the last few years he's put out mixed sides shall we say from the 3rd round onwards, which has resulted in our dismal record. People on here have talked up how easy it is to win, especially if you get an easy run, but in the past 7 seasons we've made one semi-final in which we typically failed to turn up at. I'm not going to go through every year but suffice to say we haven't lost to the likes of United, City, Chelsea, Liverpool etc every season. Chances are we'll ease through the first round or two against lower-league opposition, draw a competitive PL team away in the 5th round, which will be around the time of CL knockout matches and key PL fixtures, and we'll put half a team out and get rolled over. Fact is there's more money from CL advancement then FA Cup glory.

[Chippy]

In hindsight the embarrassment of how we played in 2005 was a harbinger of the end of the Wenger reign. Sad its going to take at least 8 years to kill off.

[SteveO 35]

The FA Cup and League Cup are only 'not important' to 3 clubs in this country i.e. the ones that have a genuine chance of winning something bigger

For the other 89 clubs in the league they should mean something.

We will never ever win the PL or CL under this ownership structure and management team, so its beyond me how anyone could even begin to turn their nose up at a real piece of silverware. I've yet to attend a cup final that wasn't enjoyable and that includes defeats to Luton and Birmingham Still a more enjoyable and memorable day out than trekking around Europe watching us get rolled over in a last 16 game in a competition we'll never win

[flash gunner]

The FA Cup and League Cup are only 'not important' to 3 clubs in this country i.e. the ones that have a genuine chance of winning something bigger

For the other 89 clubs in the league they should mean something.

We will never ever win the PL or CL under this ownership structure and management team, so its beyond me how anyone could even begin to turn their nose up at a real piece of silverware. I've yet to attend a cup final that wasn't enjoyable and that includes defeats to Luton and Birmingham Still a more enjoyable and memorable day out than trekking around Europe watching us get rolled over in a last 16 game in a competition we'll never win

Who's turning their nose up?

[highburyJD]

not since Stoke have we been KO'd with a weakened team
just checked - we were top

You don't even realise when you've contradicted yourself do you?

No,
when?

[highburyJD]

I've seen us KOd from Europe in away games many times,
every single one better than losing at Wembley

[Clash]

The FA Cup and League Cup are only 'not important' to 3 clubs in this country i.e. the ones that have a genuine chance of winning something bigger

For the other 89 clubs in the league they should mean something.

We will never ever win the PL or CL under this ownership structure and management team, so its beyond me how anyone could even begin to turn their nose up at a real piece of silverware. I've yet to attend a cup final that wasn't enjoyable and that includes defeats to Luton and Birmingham Still a more enjoyable and memorable day out than trekking around Europe watching us get rolled over in a last 16 game in a competition we'll never win

I wholeheartedly agree with you mate

And interesting how you talk about cup finals being enjoyable and memorable days. Something that bugs me constantly is how many of those kind of days we have been denied in the last 5 years. We haven’t failed in the cups because the team weren’t good enough to win them. It’s because of this nonsense prioritising thing.

Football is all about creating memories to look back on and about anticipation of what’s to come. Arsenal fans are to a large extent, being robbed of both at the moment. You can’t have either when you know your club isn’t serious about certain games.

Its not even just about finals, it’s about all the rounds. One of the most enjoyable nights while Wenger was manager was the 2003 replay win at Chelsea when Lauren scored the decisive goal. Cracking game, our big away following behind the goal and a sizzling atmosphere.

I refuse to believe that taking both the domestic cups seriously would have jeopardised our chances of finishing in a CL position in recent years so I see no justification for it at all. There is no evidence for this, it’s just something a lot of people have bought into because of Wenger. On the contrary I think losing cup games has proved to be harmful to our overall performances. Our league campaign fell apart after losing 4-0 at Man United 2008 for example. Momentum was lost.

In my view, the defeatist negativity of the manager is depriving us of far more than he is providing.

[highburyJD]

Last two seasons its been our first team knocked out.
That game at the Bridge was awesome. My memory may be somewhat affected by the mists of time (among other things)
but I'm pretty sure we were under pressue, down to ten men, it looked like they were swamping us
so Paddy picked up the ball and just held it, on his own, for ten mins
whilst the Chavs bounced off him one by one
Immense

[SteveO 35]

I've seen us KOd from Europe in away games many times,
every single one better than losing at Wembley

Because you seem to take pleasure in some 'statto' style of running up as many away games at different grounds as possible. Fine, that's your choice. You'd rather play a dead rubber matchday six game in Greece, I'd prefer to see my team at Wembley

[SteveO 35]

Last two seasons its been our first team knocked out.
That game at the Bridge was awesome. My memory may be somewhat affected by the mists of time (among other things)
but I'm pretty sure we were under pressue, down to ten men, it looked like they were swamping us
so Paddy picked up the ball and just held it, on his own, for ten mins
whilst the Chavs bounced off him one by one
Immense

In the FA Cup it was our first choice team (ish) last season.

In the League Cup and sat and watched a half decent performance against City ruined by the fact that Park and Chamakh were up front, whilst the defence consisted of Djourou, Koscileny, Squidgy and Miquel. Benayoun was captain, Flapper in goal etc

You know as well as I do that 9 times out of 10 the domestic cups are sacrificed in pursuit of the virtual trophy.

[northbank123]

Last two seasons its been our first team knocked out.
That game at the Bridge was awesome. My memory may be somewhat affected by the mists of time (among other things)
but I'm pretty sure we were under pressue, down to ten men, it looked like they were swamping us
so Paddy picked up the ball and just held it, on his own, for ten mins
whilst the Chavs bounced off him one by one
Immense

In the FA Cup it was our first choice team (ish) last season.

In the League Cup and sat and watched a half decent performance against City ruined by the fact that Park and Chamakh were up front, whilst the defence consisted of Djourou, Koscileny, Squidgy and Miquel. Benayoun was captain, Flapper in goal etc

You know as well as I do that 9 times out of 10 the domestic cups are sacrificed in pursuit of the virtual trophy.

We also risk the earlier FA Cup rounds with weakened sides. I know you can't play your strongest side (i.e. last year van Staplecunt) every game but we made substantial changes we would never have made for a league game and were awful against Leeds, even though the game provided one of my favourite match experiences. Likewise when we scraped a home draw against them previously.

[Clash]

The problem is I think that even when it has been the 1st team (or close to it) in the latter stages of the FA Cup, it has been the 1st team with the wrong mind set. There has been an attitidue that the game isnt important. The likes of Fabregas played in that 4-0 defeat at OT, it was a strong side. But every one of them except Lehmann was awful and it looked like the game an inconvenience for them. I was so angry that I've never travelled to an Arsenal away game outside of London since.

[SteveO 35]

The problem is I think that even when it has been the 1st team (or close to it) in the latter stages of the FA Cup, it has been the 1st team with the wrong mind set. There has been an attitidue that the game isnt important. The likes of Fabregas played in that 4-0 defeat at OT, it was a strong side. But every one of them except Lehmann was awful and it looked like the game an inconvenience for them. I was so angry that I've never travelled to an Arsenal away game outside of London since.

I felt the same way after clogging it up to Stoke for the 1-3 defeat (which could have been 1-8). Took the whole family up there, sat in row 2, got pissed on all game, watched Flapper come charging out and miss the ball from the long throw in the first minute, suffered Vela and Eastmond trying to influence the game against the most physical side in the country etc

Only Sol Campbell offered any resistance and that's because we're talking about a guy who was brought up in a culture where winning cups was important

It was a fucking miserable experience and if the club can't be arsed why should I ?

[augie]

Steve O I dont think people are turning their noses up at the cups as such - what you have is one group that believes that winning a league cup alone doesnt make it a good season (I am in that group) and you have another (somewhat deluded group) that believe that winning the virtual cup and being in champs league is more important than winning a domestic cup I have always argued that leaving out half of our first team for cup games sends a very bad message out to the remaining players that actually line up in the game and we then cannot have a go at them not being motivated for the game if it isnt important to the manager