An urgent plea to Arsene supporters..

[DB10GOONER]

as I said, not going anywhere (and as I said amazed by the lack of curiosity about Wengers statement that year)

it was small details saw us lose the cup finals

With the amount of embarrassing, silly things Wenger has said, I'd imagine most of us just try to forget it tbh...

[highburyJD]

suggesting the league was fixed is WAAAY beyond anything I've ever heard ANY Prem manager say ever

[g88ner]

I think it's small details that have stopped us winning trophies in the famous 7 years

Maybe there were "small details" at the beginning of this 7 year baron spell (i.e. Henry's missed 1 on 1 in the CL final in 2006, and possibly the 2007/08 title run in) but after that? - what small details in the last 4 seasons?

2008/09 - finished 4th; 18pts behind the champions. FA Cup? we lost a semi-final to the chavs after Wenger droped in form Arshavin because... wait for it... he wanted to prove to the other players they could win without him!!! (love that one! )... and in the champions league, we got hammered by United

Small details? hmm... not in the league or CL, that's for sure! maybe in the FA Cup, but we were well beaten really. And anyway, dropping Arshavin was ridiculous considering his form at the time. So, that "small detail" was WENGER!

2009/10 - 3rd in the league and hammered in the CL by Barca 4-1 at the Nou Camp. FA Cup? lost with a weakened team at Stoke... so again, the "small detail" was perhaps playing a weakened team!

2010/2011 - 4th in the league, knocked out by Barca in the CL and swept aside by United in the FA Cup. The only "small detail" was Bendtner missing his Michael Thomas moment at the Nou Camp, but as it was only the first knockout round, I think it's a stretch to say it was a "small detail" that prevented us from winning it

2011/2012 - 19pts behind the champions, and out the title race in October. Hammered by Milan at the San Siro and limped out the FA Cup at Sunderland.

And this season.... out of the league by October, again. Lets hope we get these "small details" right in the CL and FA Cup this season

(by the way, I've ignored the League Cup because it's a reserve cup for Arsenal, United and many others. But again, I accept "small details" prevented us from beating relegated Birmingham in the final).

[Clash]

Great post g88ner!

[highburyJD]

you accept the 3, small, trophy stopping details I was thinking of:

- Titi scores 1 on 1 that small detail could have won us the CL (or an offside flag for their equaliser)
- 07/08 title challenge very close
- League cup final fekup by Szczezza and Kos (it's a proper trophy, the smallest, least relevant one but indisputably a trophy)

[Clash]

We had a good side in 2007/08 who got a high number of points in total but I've never considered that season to be a proper title challenge. Not like 1999 and 2003 for instance.

When the pressure was really on the team didnt handle it well and we dropped far too many points against inferior sides. Those are the games title winning sides find something extra. After we were out of the running (with 4 or 5 games to go) we put a run of wins together that closed to gap at the top and made it look closer than it was. To say we challenged is misleading in my view.

Also a lot is made of the Eduardo injury but for me the injuries to Sagna and Flamini were more costly. Eudardo to be fair, might have turned some of those draws into wins but we'll never know. The real crime was not building on what that side did the following season.

[northbank123]

Agree about the CL final JD and the Henry finish/offside goal, but in 2007/08 we ran out of steam in February/early March because of gaping deficiencies in our squad. Might have been a couple of points but we weren't really close in the same way as 1999 say.

[MK Gould]

.....this Forum really really needs you to join up and bring other views to the table. There's no point getting away from the fact that 99% of posters on here are anti-Wenger and want him out along with the board but clearly this is not the percentage at games, on phone-ins etc.
I for one can't see that a Forum is doing what it's supposed to do unless it generates good debate without resorting to insults. I am genuinely interested in hearing why he is still the man for you, why 1996-2005 is enough to justify giving him more time, and why you think that other managers couldn't do a better job than he's doing.
I'm convinced there must be thousands who read the content on here but don't think it's worth getting involved due to the overwhelming anti-Wenger stance adopted. Go on, put the other side of the argument to us!

It would help if there was proper debate rather than the poster of any positive comment about present day Arsenal being immediately slagged off as being AKB, dilussional, not a true supporter etc..... I've said it before and I'll say it again, some of the posters on here have allowed their hatred of Wenger to outweigh their love of the club - as if the former is a prerequisite of the latter! That's especially true when we do get a good result and people immediately say it is a bad thing and just "papering over the cracks". Same will be true tomorrow if we win tonight and qualify for the knock out phase!! I can understand why many have stopped posting!

[flash gunner]

.....this Forum really really needs you to join up and bring other views to the table. There's no point getting away from the fact that 99% of posters on here are anti-Wenger and want him out along with the board but clearly this is not the percentage at games, on phone-ins etc.
I for one can't see that a Forum is doing what it's supposed to do unless it generates good debate without resorting to insults. I am genuinely interested in hearing why he is still the man for you, why 1996-2005 is enough to justify giving him more time, and why you think that other managers couldn't do a better job than he's doing.
I'm convinced there must be thousands who read the content on here but don't think it's worth getting involved due to the overwhelming anti-Wenger stance adopted. Go on, put the other side of the argument to us!

It would help if there was proper debate rather than the poster of any positive comment about present day Arsenal being immediately slagged off as being AKB, dilussional, not a true supporter etc..... I've said it before and I'll say it again, some of the posters on here have allowed their hatred of Wenger to outweigh their love of the club - as if the former is a prerequisite of the latter! That's especially true when we do get a good result and people immediately say it is a bad thing and just "papering over the cracks". Same will be true tomorrow if we win tonight and qualify for the knock out phase!! I can understand why many have stopped posting!

To be fair i think its the Arsene supporters that throw the 'youre not a true supporter' stuff about. Its about having the ball to stand up for what you think if youre pro Arsene and youve got good argument for saying so then come here and here tell everyone why. I think the problem is there is less and less for a pro Wenger supporter to say so its easier to say nothing, even JD is resorting to saying we werent allowed to win the league in 2008 which if its the case we might as well give it all up now and close down the league

[MK Gould]

.....this Forum really really needs you to join up and bring other views to the table. There's no point getting away from the fact that 99% of posters on here are anti-Wenger and want him out along with the board but clearly this is not the percentage at games, on phone-ins etc.
I for one can't see that a Forum is doing what it's supposed to do unless it generates good debate without resorting to insults. I am genuinely interested in hearing why he is still the man for you, why 1996-2005 is enough to justify giving him more time, and why you think that other managers couldn't do a better job than he's doing.
I'm convinced there must be thousands who read the content on here but don't think it's worth getting involved due to the overwhelming anti-Wenger stance adopted. Go on, put the other side of the argument to us!

It would help if there was proper debate rather than the poster of any positive comment about present day Arsenal being immediately slagged off as being AKB, dilussional, not a true supporter etc..... I've said it before and I'll say it again, some of the posters on here have allowed their hatred of Wenger to outweigh their love of the club - as if the former is a prerequisite of the latter! That's especially true when we do get a good result and people immediately say it is a bad thing and just "papering over the cracks". Same will be true tomorrow if we win tonight and qualify for the knock out phase!! I can understand why many have stopped posting!

To be fair i think its the Arsene supporters that throw the 'youre not a true supporter' stuff about. Its about having the ball to stand up for what you think if youre pro Arsene and youve got good argument for saying so then come here and here tell everyone why. I think the problem is there is less and less for a pro Wenger supporter to say so its easier to say nothing, even JD is resorting to saying we werent allowed to win the league in 2008 which if its the case we might as well give it all up now and close down the league

You've just proved my point.....straight away we are in to "pro Arsene" and "Arsene supporters". I for one like to think of myself as just a supporter of ARSENAL!

[DB10GOONER]

I think the original point of the thread was for people that still think Arsene is the right man to manage us to put forward their reasons, so I suppose they are "Arsene supporters" to some extent? I don't think the OP meant it as a derogatory or insulting term.

[flash gunner]

.....this Forum really really needs you to join up and bring other views to the table. There's no point getting away from the fact that 99% of posters on here are anti-Wenger and want him out along with the board but clearly this is not the percentage at games, on phone-ins etc.
I for one can't see that a Forum is doing what it's supposed to do unless it generates good debate without resorting to insults. I am genuinely interested in hearing why he is still the man for you, why 1996-2005 is enough to justify giving him more time, and why you think that other managers couldn't do a better job than he's doing.
I'm convinced there must be thousands who read the content on here but don't think it's worth getting involved due to the overwhelming anti-Wenger stance adopted. Go on, put the other side of the argument to us!

It would help if there was proper debate rather than the poster of any positive comment about present day Arsenal being immediately slagged off as being AKB, dilussional, not a true supporter etc..... I've said it before and I'll say it again, some of the posters on here have allowed their hatred of Wenger to outweigh their love of the club - as if the former is a prerequisite of the latter! That's especially true when we do get a good result and people immediately say it is a bad thing and just "papering over the cracks". Same will be true tomorrow if we win tonight and qualify for the knock out phase!! I can understand why many have stopped posting!

To be fair i think its the Arsene supporters that throw the 'youre not a true supporter' stuff about. Its about having the ball to stand up for what you think if youre pro Arsene and youve got good argument for saying so then come here and here tell everyone why. I think the problem is there is less and less for a pro Wenger supporter to say so its easier to say nothing, even JD is resorting to saying we werent allowed to win the league in 2008 which if its the case we might as well give it all up now and close down the league

You've just proved my point.....straight away we are in to "pro Arsene" and "Arsene supporters". I for one like to think of myself as just a supporter of ARSENAL!

I was using the term in reply to your use of AKB, dillusional, true suppporter stuff, that is what this thread is all about and there is no getting away from it all Arsenal fans of which we both are have opinions on Wenger, some are rabid haters others think its time for a change and other think he's still as good now as he was 10 years ago but ultimately there appear to be 2 opinions with varying degrees within those opinions..... We all support Arsenal agreed but we all have opinions how to become a better team

[armchair]

It really is quite simple.............
If you think Wenger should leave or be sacked you're WOB......
If you dont you're AKB.

Now I dont mind being called WOB but it seems theres AKB's who dont like being called AKB. In fact I've yet to meet an AKB who admits it. They always say......."I'm not an AKB but.........."


Now I know theres those who may say.."I know Wenger isn't perfect. Not good with tactics. Defence. Plan B, etc etc , I recognise these failings so therefore I am not an AKB"
Well yes, literally you know that Arsene doesn't always "know" but in my opinion you're still an "AKB" if you want him to stay.

Now dont get me wrong. I disagree with the AKB and their opinions but I'll fight to the death for their right to have those beliefs.

OK - carry on........

[MK Gould]

It really is quite simple.............
If you think Wenger should leave or be sacked you're WOB......
If you dont you're AKB.

Now I dont mind being called WOB but it seems theres AKB's who dont like being called AKB. In fact I've yet to meet an AKB who admits it. They always say......."I'm not an AKB but.........."


Now I know theres those who may say.."I know Wenger isn't perfect. Not good with tactics. Defence. Plan B, etc etc , I recognise these failings so therefore I am not an AKB"
Well yes, literally you know that Arsene doesn't always "know" but in my opinion you're still an "AKB" if you want him to stay.

Now dont get me wrong. I disagree with the AKB and their opinions but I'll fight to the death for their right to have those beliefs.

OK - carry on........

I don't know whether it is as simple as people being on one side of the fence or the other. There are many things I don't like about Wenger. Tactical awareness, stubborness (which has cost us at least one title)..... But I still believe that he is one of the best Manager's around. Would I prefer AVB, Mancini or Rafa? Er, no. Would I prefer Ferguson, Mourinho or Guardiola? Maybe - and a definite maybe - but we're not going to get them anyway!

To qualify for the CL 13 years in a row is - like it or not - a massive achievement. To then qualify to the knock out stage every one of those years is more massive still! The guy must be doing something right. Lets face it, in some of those seasons we've looked at the threadbare squad (and I think that our current squad is the strongest in years!) in August and truly believed that we would struggle to stay up. And yet by May we have another top 4 - and even the odd challenge for the title.

The trouble is with Arsenal and Wenger is that the Board have given him too much responsibility. In the early days he said he wanted Sol, and Dein said I'll go and get him. Job done. Nowadays nothing happens at the club without Wenger's approval - and that is too much for one man. If Gazidis did his job, if we started spending some of the war chest, then yes, I believe that Wenger is still the best man for the job. Not perfect, just the best.

[highburyJD]

great post MK
I hope and believe this winter and summer there will be shift in how we do business