Wenger Out Banner

[northbank123]

They've got no right to kick anybody out the ground for displaying that banner, I'd be amazed if the T&Cs extended towards publicly criticising the management. They'll make you take it down especially as it'll cause a fuss with other supporters.

[SWLGooner]

I know it has probably been asked before (maybe even by me ) but what legal right has the club to expel a member from the grove for displaying a banner ?

As far as i'm aware none, providing it isn't offensive/racist/sexist etc. But then again, maybe free speech doesn't exist in the Pravda-dome.

Didn't Sammy say you'd have the banner confiscated and nothing more? - could be wrong.

I've looked into this via legal advice - the club have the legal right to eject anyone from the ground without providing a reason.

[dPmunky]

I've looked into this via legal advice - the club have the legal right to eject anyone from the ground without providing a reason.

Seems to be standard operating procedure at venues like the emirates. In the states they can eject you for pretty much whatever they want...

if you wear green sneakers and they say get out....you're out!

[Arsenal Till I Die]

I know it has probably been asked before (maybe even by me ) but what legal right has the club to expel a member from the grove for displaying a banner ?

As far as i'm aware none, providing it isn't offensive/racist/sexist etc. But then again, maybe free speech doesn't exist in the Pravda-dome.

Didn't Sammy say you'd have the banner confiscated and nothing more? - could be wrong.

I've looked into this via legal advice - the club have the legal right to eject anyone from the ground without providing a reason.

It is basically the same as wanting someone out of your house. It is their establishment they can do as they wish. As long as they don't discriminate against race, sexuality, orientation etc then they have power.

Will always be the way.

[OneBardGooner]

What Banner!??? Have I missed somefink???

Come on guys FFS Lighten up - WE (yes, I said) "WE" (Gooners) are all on the same side - well except those brainless dimwit fucks who still think wenker walks on water - And things are just beginning to go our way - ie: The cracks are really beginning to show...


So, public airing of The Banner (or any other anti-board/wenker/etc banner) needs to be timed correctly, because if it were to be made public at a game that we actually won (and played well) it would lose it's 'power and effectiveness'.

Yes it DOES need to be made public, but think about 'when and where' - agree on that and I'm sure it can be put in the hands of those people willing to face bans/fines or whatever else the Arsenal Legal bod *word censored* will throw at them....BUT!..those Gooners MUST Realise they will likely get a long (even lifetime) ban from the bowl...there are all kinds of rules and more importantly 'LAWS' that are in existence for those people attending games - and Arsenal the Club - WILL Prosecute and do all they can to crush, silence and take revenge on anyone who causes even the slightest negative publicity - even though it be done for all the right and honourable reasons...

And so, regardless of any misubderstandings or differences of opinions, whatever - rather than allow things to fracture opinion and support, we MUST stick together - there will be those who don't want to incur the wrath of Arsenals legal team etc and others who do not give a flying fuck...so :

a) CHILL
b) DIscuss who wants to do what and who does not
c) Arrange and Organise the BEST time for the Banner to have the Maximum Impact with the LEAST harm to those showing/holding the Banner...

FFS we ARE The Arsenal - Not a load of scum toilet supporters!

There's no such thing as a perfect time....its subjective but have to be honest if I had paid into the banner I would expect some right to show it regardless, the shareholding of this is worse than the arsenal board itself!!!!! Armchair should be given the bloody banner if the majority of banners payers agree....not sure of the history but someone needs to sort it or organise a new one, the chelski showed one within a week of the Fat Spanish waiter commencing service....

I did not and never have said there was. However in any strand of life/sport/business etc "Timing Is Everything" and so there is such a thing as the worst time to do/say something...and there is a more 'impacting and profitable' time to do/say something....which is why it has to be given plenty of forethought and then acted upon.

ps: DB10_TH14

[SWLGooner]

I'd like to clear this particular issue up.

You asked me for it the week before Tottenham home, with no concrete plan to show it at a defined game.

For me to give it to you then without you giving me a sensible plan for you to show it would be ridiculous - how could I be sure you hadn't gone totally mad and were hoping to show it at the Derby?

Seeing as this isn't gonna work via PM, I'll respond on here.

Yes good idea lets clear this up.
You know fuckin well I wouldn't show it at the derby or against Manure. How? Because I have PM'd you about this numerous times and told you thats how. So dont come that bollox with me

I don't know you well enough to take that risk -- you did assure me you wouldn't show it against Spurs or United, but you also raised the possibility of collecting the banner off of us before the game, which seemed somewhat suspicious from my point of view.

Anyway as far as I'm concerned its not up to you who shows it or where its shown. You, who wouldn't show it expect me who would, to ask you permission where or when to do it?

Seeing as any repercussions come back to me, I'd like a better idea of when you're going to show it that 'an undefined point in the future' - my original response to you was that I am happy to give it to you when you would like to show it with a concrete plan to do so, and that I would be happy to help you in person to the extent it's possible or simply in terms of logistics.

Whats your "sensible plan"? Leave it lying in someones shed?

PM's are supposed to be private but if you like I'll post every one on here where I've asked to help you hold the banner and more recentely asking you to give me the banner to organise getting it shown myself. I've been trying to get this banner shown from October 2011 and have the PMs to prove it so for you to come on here with that "I'm afraid you'll show it at the derby" shit is fucking insulting.

We've not spoken on this subject since meeting pre-game in April. If you can provide evidence to the contrary, I'm willing to accept I'm wrong on the specific date, but you haven't explicitly asked for it with intent to show it before Sunday 11 November, which being 6 days before Spurs home I was inclined to stall on.

RE: slating my "sensible plan" - please direct me to where I've said I have a 'sensible plan'; I've not said such a thing on this topic. Those who know me personally or drink where I do will know of subsequent events that validate my belief that banners to be shown against the board and manager are much better off kept on a need to know basis, and I've acted in this way since.


The bottom line is you took money from forum members on the premis that you'd show this banner. You have reneged and are refusing to show it. (You have perfectly legitimate reasons but frankly thats your problem. When you were organising this you said you knew there may be some agro but were prepared for it)
Not only are you refusing to show it but more incredibly you have refused to give it to those who will show it!

I have contacted 5 other forum members who contributed. The amount we put in collectively is £100. Add frank butcher who put in £50 and we have more than half the cost of the banner.

I spoke to Frank Butcher today pre game in one of the pubs around the ground - I have his support in doing as I feel is right with the banner: if you're going on a purely one-pound-one-vote basis I can account for more than a majority of those who paid as people who'll back me. Myself, ex-AA23, Frankbutcher and others who I know personally and have spoken to today account for more than half of the money paid in, and I have checked that against the records of money received.

I do however accept your contention that you've contributed to the banner and thus should have a large part in determining its future; like I said, if you want to show it then you are entitled to do so and providing you give me a reasonable plan that I can ensure will take place as you say it will, it's all yours.

If you'd like to speak to arrange something, you have my mobile number, or you know that I'm at pretty much every game and always available to meet over a beer and talk civilly about it -- ad hominem attacks on an open forum won't get you anywhere, and you won't see me bite beyond setting out my side of the story - I rarely go on here any more beyond sorting tickets so I'm not really too worried about the perception, beyond those whom I know personally or have contributed to the printing of the banner.

Very poor form in my opinion.

[mcdowell42]

I know it has probably been asked before (maybe even by me ) but what legal right has the club to expel a member from the grove for displaying a banner ?

As far as i'm aware none, providing it isn't offensive/racist/sexist etc. But then again, maybe free speech doesn't exist in the Pravda-dome.

Didn't Sammy say you'd have the banner confiscated and nothing more? - could be wrong.

I've looked into this via legal advice - the club have the legal right to eject anyone from the ground without providing a reason.

It is basically the same as wanting someone out of your house. It is their establishment they can do as they wish. As long as they don't discriminate against race, sexuality, orientation etc then they have power.
Will always be the way.

So we just need an gay asian/black /irish lesbian dwarf in a wheelchair

[Arsenal Till I Die]

It is basically the same as wanting someone out of your house. It is their establishment they can do as they wish. As long as they don't discriminate against race, sexuality, orientation etc then they have power.
Will always be the way.

So we just need an gay asian/black /irish lesbian dwarf in a wheelchair

The highlighted ones could be the love child of our own DB10Gooner and BrazilianGooner

[northbank123]

Difference is that you (or certainly I) don't ask people to pay vast sums of money to come to enter your house. You can't enter into a contract with somebody where you sell them something and then renege on your end of the agreement unless that's specifically provided for. I imagine they have ensured that they have some pretty wide powers though, I'm sure there'll be some T&Cs available somewhere setting out the scenarios in which they can remove someone, although that doesn't mean they'll use them.

I would be pretty amazed if they tried to remove you for displaying an anti-Wenger banner. The stewards are hardly heavy-handed and do you really think that the club would rather make a fuss trying to remove somebody which would drag everyone's attention towards it and be ridiculed than asking them to take the banner down?

This is how the stewards' reactions would be viewed:

One man asked to take down a Wenger Out banner - who cares? To the rest of the world that seems pretty reasonable on behalf of the stewards and handled in an appropriate manner. Hardly ridiculous to ask him to take down a banner that goes against most of the fans' view.

Somebody gets dragged out shouting for daring to oppose the manager - absolute dictatorship, fans who pay vast sums every year aren't allow to voice displeasure in the face of constant poor performance etc etc, as well as probably drawing dissent from some other nearby fans.

Face it, the stewards would probably ask you to take the banner down but they wouldn't go straight to dragging you out. The real problem is the other fans, and if it causes a bit of a ruckus with people around you then that's gonna compel the stewards to act.

[SWLGooner]

Based on personal existence, the latter would happen.

[armchair]

I don't know you well enough to take that risk -- you did assure me you wouldn't show it against Spurs or United, but you also raised the possibility of collecting the banner off of us before the game, which seemed somewhat suspicious from my point of view.
You didn't care about knowing me well enough to accept my (and others) money on the premis that you'd show this banner. I didn't know you either but I took you on face value and wasn't "suspicious" and handed over my money in good faith. I reckon you should have afforded me the same courtesy.


Seeing as any repercussions come back to me, I'd like a better idea of when you're going to show it that 'an undefined point in the future' - my original response to you was that I am happy to give it to you when you would like to show it with a concrete plan to do so, and that I would be happy to help you in person to the extent it's possible or simply in terms of logistics.
Just have to repeat that me, (who was willing to show it), does not need permission from you, (who is not willing to show it). I need to have it in my possession before I can start making "concrete plans", getting people together etc. I cant be relying on you to show up on the day with it. I have to have it in my hand first, then I start planning. Surely you should know that? You've had it for over a year.



We've not spoken on this subject since meeting pre-game in April. If you can provide evidence to the contrary, I'm willing to accept I'm wrong on the specific date, but you haven't explicitly asked for it with intent to show it before Sunday 11 November, which being 6 days before Spurs home I was inclined to stall on
Thats quite simply not true mate. I have asked you to let me have it as far back as January, so you're wrong on that one. I asked you to let me take it into the Emirates on your behalf and also to take it to aways. I have this on PM but dont really want to post PMs on here. So on this one you're very, very wrong. I have also posted on the open forum that I'd do it.

RE: slating my "sensible plan" - please direct me to where I've said I have a 'sensible plan'; I've not said such a thing on this topic. Those who know me personally or drink where I do will know of subsequent events that validate my belief that banners to be shown against the board and manager are much better off kept on a need to know basis, and I've acted in this way since.
I didn't say you had any kind of plan. Thats the problem. If you'd done what you said you'd do we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Anyway why are you asking me what my plan is while you've had this for over a year cant come up with one?



I spoke to Frank Butcher today pre game in one of the pubs around the ground - I have his support in doing as I feel is right with the banner: if you're going on a purely one-pound-one-vote basis I can account for more than a majority of those who paid as people who'll back me. Myself, ex-AA23, Frankbutcher and others who I know personally and have spoken to today account for more than half of the money paid in, and I have checked that against the records of money received.
Even on this very thread those who have contributed have said the banner should be handed over
I have not spoken to frank butcher about it but he has been very voiciferous on this board about gettin the banner shown

I do however accept your contention that you've contributed to the banner and thus should have a large part in determining its future; like I said, if you want to show it then you are entitled to do so and providing you give me a reasonable plan that I can ensure will take place as you say it will, it's all yours.

Again mate you're asking to get permission from you to do something that you are not prepared to do yourself. Thats just totally unreasonable and insulting. And again I need to have it first. I cannot be relying on you or anyone else.


If you'd like to speak to arrange something, you have my mobile number, or you know that I'm at pretty much every game and always available to meet over a beer and talk civilly about it -- ad hominem attacks on an open forum won't get you anywhere, and you won't see me bite beyond setting out my side of the story - I rarely go on here any more beyond sorting tickets so I'm not really too worried about the perception, beyond those whom I know personally or have contributed to the printing of the banner. [/b]
I dont know what ad hominem attacks means. I dont see how calling you to discuss it will do any good. Like I said I've genuinely been trying to get it shown for a year and at times I felt like I was stalking you and had to back off.
.

I think you are trying to over-complicate it to disguise your own un-willingness to show it. It really is simple.....
Q- Did you take money from genuine forum members on the basis that you'd show the banner?
A- Yes

Q- Did you show it?
A- No

Q- Did I offer to help you show it, to bring it into the Emirates and to personally take it to aways?
A - Yes

Q- Did you show it or give it to me to bring?
A- No

Q- Did I ask you to let me take the responsibility from you so I could then organise getting it shown?
A- Yes

Q- Did you let me have it so I could organise getting it shown
A- No

Q- Over a year after taking money from well-meaning forum members have you done what you said you'd do or allowed someone else to do it? IE:- Show the banner
A- No

[flash gunner]

Armchair dont get me wrong mate but didnt you say you'd never been to a game due to cost etc? but in this post above you said you have been to games, which one is it? and if youre not a go-er then how do you expect to show it when you get the banner?

I know SWL has had some shit over this from fellow Gooners and ive spoken to him about it, so i dont blame him at all for not showing it. I know Herd hasn't wanted Wenger out so this isnt aimed at him but there seems to be loads of people urging it to be shown and when asked if they want to do it there seems to be more excuses flying about as to why they cant

Flash you must have me confused with someone else. I'd like to see where you've got that info from?
Quote, source please.........

Been trying to find it but i cant there are stacks of posts to wade through so havent found it, if you didnt say this then fair enough apologies

[SteveO 35]

I'm setting a deadline for the banner of the end of January when the window closes before I show my "Who knew Van Persie 8 years ago" one.

Unlike you, I have two lovely ladies willing to help me hold it aloft with pride and countless little bell-ends volunteering to pose beside it with the old 'thumbs up'

One Arsene Wenger.......There's Only One Arsene Wenger

When we get the Virtual Trophy in May, and there is talk of AW's new contract at the same time as Mourinho leaves Real Madrid this banner will have missed its window of opportunity as Red Action will be digging out the old "Real fans have real patience" one again

[arseofacrow]

I'm setting a deadline for the banner of the end of January when the window closes before I show my "Who knew Van Persie 8 years ago" one.

Unlike you, I have two lovely ladies willing to help me hold it aloft with pride and countless little bell-ends volunteering to pose beside it with the old 'thumbs up'

One Arsene Wenger.......There's Only One Arsene Wenger

When we get the Virtual Trophy in May, and there is talk of AW's new contract at the same time as Mourinho leaves Real Madrid this banner will have missed its window of opportunity as Red Action will be digging out the old "Real fans have real patience" one again

SteveO, I'm organising the virtual "virtual trophy" parade...can I count on your assistance?

I've got a lot of things not to organise.

[SteveO 35]

I'm setting a deadline for the banner of the end of January when the window closes before I show my "Who knew Van Persie 8 years ago" one.

Unlike you, I have two lovely ladies willing to help me hold it aloft with pride and countless little bell-ends volunteering to pose beside it with the old 'thumbs up'

One Arsene Wenger.......There's Only One Arsene Wenger

When we get the Virtual Trophy in May, and there is talk of AW's new contract at the same time as Mourinho leaves Real Madrid this banner will have missed its window of opportunity as Red Action will be digging out the old "Real fans have real patience" one again

SteveO, I'm organising the virtual "virtual trophy" parade...can I count on your assistance?

I've got a lot of things not to organise.

I will provide "virtual assistance" every step of the way buddy.