WALCOTT - which position is best etc?

[foxinthebox2001]

So thats that then, once Wenger says he is confident a player will stay, he is off.
He belongs to the club? what is he talking about?
Try googling 'Wenger confident' you get about 15 pages, Nasri staying, Fab staying, RVP staying, winning cups, winning titles. Its like a concise history of Wenger b***s***.

[northbank123]

Quartz I think Wenger's idea of negotiation is telling BBC he's confident he'll stay or that he hopes he signs the new deal. Wenger is a big fan of the idea that somebody has a market value and not paying above that, and also his insistence on playing even Gervinho as a striker ahead of Walcott doesn't help.

What will likely happen is that we'll wait until March until the reality kicks in and offer him slightly-improved terms when his head has already been irretrievably turned.

[augie]

AUGIE

(As always these figures are approximate as we do not know for sure what wages are paid), but

We can afford to pay Theo an extra £25,000 per week.
The club has millions in the bank, and some very expensive dross to get off the wage bill when contracts expire, which will make up the increased salary.

Quartz I have no doubt that we can afford to pay him the extra 25k but thats not really the point though is it ? The biggest factor is whether his consistant contribution to the team is worthy of 100k and you already my answer to that question.

There are many many reasons why I want shot of wenger asap but this is one of the area's that impacts most - I believe if we got in an ambitious manager in the morning we would see a radical overhaul of the playing staff and an overhaul that is long overdue. When/If that happens the last thing I would want is for that manager to inherit a squad of average players that he cant get rid of due to excessive wages being paid to those players and this deal has the possibility of falling into that category. I have read comments proclaiming that if feo doesnt develop like some believe he will then we will still be able to get a good price for him cos of english players have a higher market price but who will take on his high wages if he has been a failure with us ? Lets be honest here and admit that right now wally believes in his market value and is refusing to settle for a penny less so can ye really see him agreeing to take a pay cut in order to facilitate a transfer away from us ?
I know in some respects I can be a dreamer and I am not ashamed to admit it.......I still believe that we can sign the likes of david villa if we wanted to. I would much rather have that 25k (the difference between what we offered walnut and what he is looking for) and use it towards the wages of a proven quality player instead. We all complain about the size of our wage bill being disportionate to the actual amount of quality within the squad so isnt it about time we started paying top players (like rvp) the wages they are worth and then pay players beneath that level a wage that is more befitting their talent and contribution ? I want to see our pay structure smashed so that we can keep our top players and then entice other top players to join us but then there has to be a knock on effect for the rest of the squad cos that wage bill cannot and should not be any higher than it already is. For that reason I would be happy to pay wally 75k per week with the promise to renegotiate again in a year or two when he has proven that he can consistantly play at a high level so it isnt a case that I want him sold no matter what

[QuartzGooner]

Augie

I am with you on changing the wage structure.
I would also pay proven players more than unproven ones.

In fact I would prefer to see our squad made up of proven stars on big money, with gaps filled mainly by hungry young players on less money, but with incentive to improve.
Not as inbalanced as a galactico wage structure though.

I would also like to see sliding scale contracts introduced such as Messi has signed, where wages increase each year as an incentive.
If the player does not perform, then he can be transfer listed before wage increases become prohibitive to a sale.
This should be enhanced with the "lower basic wage/higher performance bonus" model that many on the Forum have talked about for a while.
Not just as an incentive for the players, but to ease the sale of the player if form drops, so that high basic wages do not become a barrier to a sale.

As for Walcott, I view him as a player who developed late and has finally found form; after shoulder injuries, very early inclusion in the first team squad and unrealistic expectations provided a tough start.
So I think he is now worth 100k per week.
And I think he will retain resale value if his form drops; the Manchester Clubs, Chelsea, Liverpool and others are not interested in him by chance (if the papers are to be believed, which is never certain).
Others see him as an inconsistent player who is "playing for a contract".

[northbank123]

High wages for players of proven quality.
Relatively modest wages for youngsters who show promise but are you to 'make it'.

This is the formula that has seen United achieve consistent success, and is also just fucking common sense. Even City implement this, it's just their scale is higher and they have a higher proportion of 'proven players'.

I just can't understand how we've got where we are. Obviously we've made a conscious effort to shift towards a young team and therefore have offered higher wages to them. But surely nobody sat down and agreed it would be a great idea to fill the £40-60k a week budget with stagnant underachievers?

[Dan_85]

Regarding Wenger's quotes from yesterday, I thought this was pretty spot on, from the comment sections on LG.

“‘It is easier to take a player of 25 and put him in the team. You know what you are getting”

So Wenger basically admits he doesnt make decisions based on whats best for Arsenal FC…..he indulges himself in his weird little experiment.

Totally lost the plot. Please move on Arsene, for fucks sake. You are killing us.

[flash gunner]

Regarding Wenger's quotes from yesterday, I thought this was pretty spot on, from the comment sections on LG.

“‘It is easier to take a player of 25 and put him in the team. You know what you are getting”

So Wenger basically admits he doesnt make decisions based on whats best for Arsenal FC…..he indulges himself in his weird little experiment.

Totally lost the plot. Please move on Arsene, for fucks sake. You are killing us.

[northbank123]

Regarding Wenger's quotes from yesterday, I thought this was pretty spot on, from the comment sections on LG.

“‘It is easier to take a player of 25 and put him in the team. You know what you are getting”

So Wenger basically admits he doesnt make decisions based on whats best for Arsenal FC…..he indulges himself in his weird little experiment.

Totally lost the plot. Please move on Arsene, for fucks sake. You are killing us.

Did you see the wider context of the quotes? About how Theo 'owes' us? I mean Wenger has clearly always believed that his players owed him something, and that may have helped us keep a few big players for a year longer, but looking at our departures now clearly the players don't share that view. Players only staying out of profound personal loyalty used to be the main justification amongst AKBs for Wenger being the only man for us, the fact that he's explicitly come out and said that players owe him is just another example of what a desperate man he's become.

I wonder if his teaparty with van Staplecunt and Gazidis offered any input other than telling him how much he owed the club?

[Dan_85]

Did you see the wider context of the quotes? About how Theo 'owes' us?

He has tried the blackmail trick with numerous players now and off the top of my head I can't think of one instance where it's worked. Theo doesn't owe you shit Arsene, we're not living in your weird footballing utopia where players stick around because they enjoy your fatherly advice & boring, sideways football. Footballers in 2013 want money & trophies, it just shows how out of touch with the modern game Wenger is.

[northbank123]

Did you see the wider context of the quotes? About how Theo 'owes' us?

He has tried the blackmail trick with numerous players now and off the top of my head I can't think of one instance where it's worked. Theo doesn't owe you shit Arsene, we're not living in your weird footballing utopia where players stick around because they enjoy your fatherly advice & boring, sideways football. Footballers in 2013 want money & trophies, it just shows how out of touch with the modern game Wenger is.

It doesn't exactly help his case when he refuses to give a player the money they've asked for and portray himself as a martyr for their cause when all the while he's earning £145k a week.

[StuartL]

Did you see the wider context of the quotes? About how Theo 'owes' us?

He has tried the blackmail trick with numerous players now and off the top of my head I can't think of one instance where it's worked. Theo doesn't owe you shit Arsene, we're not living in your weird footballing utopia where players stick around because they enjoy your fatherly advice & boring, sideways football. Footballers in 2013 want money & trophies, it just shows how out of touch with the modern game Wenger is.

Exactly Northbank and Dan - it shows the level of desparation that he has got to when he says stuff like "he owes the club", "he loves the club", etc, etc, basically he is just trying manipulation via the press.

Theo, like RVP, Cesc, Nasri, etc owes us nothing. We bought him from Southampton - as a player, a commodity, we payed what we believed he was worth - hoping for a return in value through performances, goals, or a sell on transfer fee, we may well get very little return for our £12m (guesstimate) outlay and this is what probably upsets Wenker.

Some of our previous players said publically that they thought of Wenker as some kind of father figure, Henry, Cesc yet they still left didn't they ?

Wakey, wakey Arsene, players don't all think the sun shines out of your backside.

[SteveO 35]

Theo Walcott has scored 11 goals in all competitions for the club this season, leaving him just two short of equalling his most prolific season, when he netted 13 in 2010-11.

How's Giroud getting on?

[augie]

Theo Walcott has scored 11 goals in all competitions for the club this season, leaving him just two short of equalling his most prolific season, when he netted 13 in 2010-11.

How's Giroud getting on?

STAT ALERT
Of course your 11 goals stat doesnt factor in that 5 were against lower league opposition and only 5 were in the league which if I am not mistaken is only 1 more than giroud who is in his first season playing in a new league and country

[SteveO 35]

Theo Walcott has scored 11 goals in all competitions for the club this season, leaving him just two short of equalling his most prolific season, when he netted 13 in 2010-11.

How's Giroud getting on?

STAT ALERT
Of course your 11 goals stat doesnt factor in that 5 were against lower league opposition and only 5 were in the league which if I am not mistaken is only 1 more than giroud who is in his first season playing in a new league and country

Over-protective of new signing alert !

Unlike our goal machine who also includes in his amazing tally goals against Reading and Coventry in the League Cup. You're startng to sound like Wenger with your 'adaption period' - the fella is 27 years old for fuck's sake. By the time he adapts he'll be thinking about taking up gardening

[augie]

Theo Walcott has scored 11 goals in all competitions for the club this season, leaving him just two short of equalling his most prolific season, when he netted 13 in 2010-11.

How's Giroud getting on?

STAT ALERT
Of course your 11 goals stat doesnt factor in that 5 were against lower league opposition and only 5 were in the league which if I am not mistaken is only 1 more than giroud who is in his first season playing in a new league and country

Over-protective of new signing alert !

Unlike our goal machine who also includes in his amazing tally goals against Reading and Coventry in the League Cup. You're startng to sound like Wenger with your 'adaption period' - the fella is 27 years old for fuck's sake. By the time he adapts he'll be thinking about taking up gardening

Seriously Steve O I am not standing up for giroud as such but am merely pointing out the fact that wonderboy's stats are not that impressive if you take coventry and half a reading team out of the equation