THE WENGER THREAD

[Steve_I]

Did anybody actually read my posts?
I asked twice for Wenger supporters to say what they think Wengers flaws.

And nobody will get
"shot down" unless by that you mean disagreed with.

Whats so difficult about that?

I did read your posts and effectively said I don't necessarily believe he has flaws that are relevant. If you want me to list flaws that I believe he has then surely it would be somewhat facetious of me to say things like "he has grey hair" "he has a slight accent" "his sentance structure could perhaps need a little rethinking at times".

By "shot down" yes I did mean disagreed with but sometimes, on this forum [and of course others] that disagreement can be abusive, hostile and ill considered. Your own comments are well thought out and considered from me reading but not all are.

[Steve_I]

Steve_I,

The truth is that if anything has 'shot down' the pro-Wenger defenders it's been 'events' - most of which were both dreaded and predicted by the AMG's and alas subsequently proven correct.

I can't agree here. As a Wenger supporter I do not concede that we are in a position that demands he goes... this much is obvious, anything else would be contradiction I guess.

My point about being 'shot down' was just made from reading through various threads before I even attempted to post anything, showed me the vitriol that some pour forth at times when ever any have said anything recently in his defence; in fact a lot fo the time that vitriol is evident without any acute provocation. I guess it's a question of perspectives as to what being shot down is.

[Steve_I]

Just like to know what you or any other Wenger supporter think his flaws are?
I havent seen anyone getting shouted down here for ages since a couple of contentious members were banned.

IMO thats a convenient and weak excuse for not having the courage of your convictions. And also not true IMO. Its more likely that Wenger supporters dont post because their arguments are weak and getting weaker everyseason/match/time Wenger opens his mouth.

Anyway my question was not for Wenger supporters to post in support of him as you say that has been done to death, rather what Wenger supporters think his flaws are.

Ok fair enough. Just that it's difficult to post what one thinks because, as I said, and you agreed, it has been done... I don't think these arguments are weak, just not worth putting here for that reason... it's been done. I still believe them tho, which is perhaps the crux.

Agree with Steve as whatever he says will just get roundly shot down.

Although I would be very interested to hear people actually try and give reasoned justification not only as to why he should remain manager, but why his managerial record and abilities are still revered by so many fans.

I truly think the only way to have this conversation is in the real world. We still wouldn't agree but I believe it might be easier for each to see that there is another side, albeit one that isn't agreed with. I can assure you that I can see why those hereabouts feel like they do and get angry like they do, I can understand the rationale although not necessarily agree (obv) but I will concede that to find a NEW and UNHEARD argument for believing what I believe is almost definitely not going to happen.

[armchair]

Did anybody actually read my posts?
I asked twice for Wenger supporters to say what they think Wengers flaws.

And nobody will get
"shot down" unless by that you mean disagreed with.

Whats so difficult about that?

I did read your posts and effectively said I don't necessarily believe he has flaws that are relevant. If you want me to list flaws that I believe he has then surely it would be somewhat facetious of me to say things like "he has grey hair" "he has a slight accent" "his sentance structure could perhaps need a little rethinking at times".

By "shot down" yes I did mean disagreed with but sometimes, on this forum [and of course others] that disagreement can be abusive, hostile and ill considered. Your own comments are well thought out and considered from me reading but not all are.

I asked the question "What do Wenger supporters think Wengers flaws are" for a couple of reasons....
1. Because we've already done the Why do you think Wenger should stay thing and
2. To see what we could actually agree on. I regularly hear those that want him to stay say stuff like "I know he has his flaws but..." or "Hes not perfect but..." or "Im not an AKB but.....".

Now Steve's answer (the only Wenger supporter who has replied) is interesting and worrying.
To say that Wenger does not have any "relevent flaws" astounds me. The only (and I mean only) way someone does not have any "relevent flaws" is if he is a god, infallible, like the Pope. Now maybe you understand why some think that Wenger supporters are described as belonging to "the cult of Wenger" and that he is their "leader", "god" etc....?
Because Wenger supporters cannot or refuse to see his "relevent flaws" of which there are plenty.

Now I know you have said you dont like the term AKB (and I have stopped using that term preferring the term "Wenger supporter") but to say that that he has no "relevent flaws" really translates as - hes perfect. Which plainly hes not.

Also to say that you dont or wont post because you might be disagreed with doesnt stand up for me I'm afraid. I stand by what I said before - that Wenger supporters arguments are now so blatantly weak or irrelevent or non-existant that any serious scrutiny will prove them to be just that.
And anyway its only on an internet forum. Doesn't really matter. Just an escape really, a way to let off a bit of steam, put in an hour or two. Not like real life where you go to a game and express your dissatisfaction with the manager and get threatened and lamped is it?

[armchair]

I remember when I first got married. Eh, those were the days.........

Beautiful new young wife, loads of fantastic, thrilling, passionate sex.
A new beginning. We were young, ambitious, had the whole world at our feet. We were so in love and made a great team. We could take on anybody or anything. We felt like we were were invincible. Yea. Everybody admired us and wanted to have what we had. Good times.

Then the wife decided to have a family and the kids came along. Slowly the beautiful, fantastic, sex dried up and it became boring. Predictable. Same old same old. It was as if she was just going through the motions.
When the kids came along she changed. I felt she didn't care about me anymore. Rather she wanted to spoil, mollycoddle the kids. Give the little ungratefull little fuckers everything they wanted. Guitar tuition, swimming lessons, playstations, X boxes, Expensive holidays, the best of everything. And they didn't walk anywhere. Oh no I had to drop em off and pick em up again. Of course I had to pay for all this expense. it was me who had to foot the bill.

Now and again the wife and I would have a good time together again. A good day/night out. A nice meal followed by some of that great sex we used to have regularly. Reminded me of how it used to be. But times like this were few and far between and only served to paper over the cracks.

Now the kids have grown up but guess what? I cant get rid of the fuckers. Lifes too cushy here for them and they wont leave.
Me and the wife dont really get along anymore and just sort of "co-exist" It really is quite sad really. We could have been world beaters. i think a quote from Marlon Brando's On the Waterfront pretty much sums it up.........
"You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, ...................So what happens? He gets the title shot outdoors on the ballpark and what do I get? A one-way ticket to Palooka-ville!"

So I think its best for both of us if we seperate amicably. (She can have the kids ). Just recognise what wonderful times we've had together (and boy there've been some great memories) and be thankful that we've had something really, really special together but that its time to say goodbye.........

[Top Londoner]

Armchair.

You feeling alright mate?

Happy new year.

[armchair]

Armchair.

You feeling alright mate?

Happy new year.

Happy New Year TL. Good to see you back.
Still off the fags?

[markyp]

i cant believe anybody can still want Wenker in charge,i mean yes he was great in his first few seasons but he's done nothing but harm the club for the past 7 years.Anybody who still wants him in charge cant want to win any silver ware COS ITS BLATANTLY OBVIOUS WE WONT WIN ANY WITH HIM.this will be our eighth trophyless season,eight years,for a club like Arsenal its is not good enough,we are always the bridesmaids but never the bride these days.can you imagine if back in 95 had GG not gotten found out about the 'bung' and had Arsenal not gotten rid of him and we'd been stuck with him,we'd have missed the Arsene boat completely and all that early sucess,imagine that ,imagine GG had continued to manage us into the 00's,where would we be now??imagine nobody had the balls to say George you are past it fella,thanks for memories now fuck off.looking back GG although a massive Arsenal legend(one of mine too)getting rid of him was the best thing Arsenal could have done,the football was dire,we were second rate,his signings were awful and he'd lost the dressing room(sound familiar).having the balls to take that step is massive,but we did it with GG,We are now way way past this point with Wenker,he needs to be gone,five years from now with a trophy cabinet blinging with silverware we will all look back and realise that it was the best thing we could have done,when someones finished,they are finished,just the same as GG was back in 95.AKB'S please wake up and come to your senses

[Top Londoner]

Oh yes mate, and off the cigarettes too.

Armchair, perhaps you have the post crimbo blues?

[foxinthebox2001]

Todays BBC interview is very interesting if you go by body language. When asked about Walcott on about 2 minutes AW takes a big swallow, the mention of that long drawn out saga makes his throat dry.
I expect 1 of 2 things now, either a big PR exercise on Monday AM to wash over the memory of City tearing us a new one the previous day, or Walcott has privately told Wenger exactly what RVP told him, he dislikes the direction the club is going. He is off in the summer, for free.
What is this 'open' game he talks of on Sunday? I expect we will be more open than City, an admission we have not a clue about how to defend set pieces?
I am hoping we sign Lopez in the next few days.. Adrian?, no Jennifer to grace Wengers leaving party in March, on the plane back from Munich.

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

My support for Wenger is waining....

But as an example of not always we do we know best - Sahin "the one Wenger fucked up" is going back to Germany because he cant handle the Premier League - remmember the bile he got on here for not getting him?

Add: Samba, any Birmingham Centre Back, Joe Cole etc etc

He doesnt always know best, but sometimes he does.

[SteveO 35]

My support for Wenger is waining....

But as an example of not always we do we know best - Sahin "the one Wenger fucked up" is going back to Germany because he cant handle the Premier League - remmember the bile he got on here for not getting him?

Add: Samba, any Birmingham Centre Back, Joe Cole etc etc

He doesnt always know best, but sometimes he does.

A fair point well made although one wonders whether he was interested in all of those players but was not prepared to match the wages & fees that the eventual buyers did. Guess we don't know that. I must admit I would gladly have taken Chris Samba although I did say at the time that he was very much a specialist for playing against the likes of Zamora, any Stoke player, Kevin Davies, Carroll etc and that he wasn't the sort of player to win you a Champions League. Still think he'd be good for that job. The others have been a disaster granted

There can't be a manager alive that gets it right every time - like you say, sometimes he does, and clearly the ones that stay in the job the longest over time have got it right more often than not.

[armchair]

My support for Wenger is waining....

But as an example of not always we do we know best - Sahin "the one Wenger fucked up" is going back to Germany because he cant handle the Premier League - remmember the bile he got on here for not getting him?

Add: Samba, any Birmingham Centre Back, Joe Cole etc etc

He doesnt always know best, but sometimes he does.

Steve Kean didn't sign any of those players either. Maybe he "knows" sometimes too...

Besides I have one thing to say about Wengers signings of "top quality".....
Gervinho.

[northbank123]

My support for Wenger is waining....

But as an example of not always we do we know best - Sahin "the one Wenger fucked up" is going back to Germany because he cant handle the Premier League - remmember the bile he got on here for not getting him?

Add: Samba, any Birmingham Centre Back, Joe Cole etc etc

He doesnt always know best, but sometimes he does.

Agree with the best, I made the same point about Sahin and a few others recently.

But Samba, really? I would still love to have him at the club. Only thing I've heard about him in Russia is that he's been consistently racially abused.

[Supagoon]

My support for Wenger is waining....

But as an example of not always we do we know best - Sahin "the one Wenger fucked up" is going back to Germany because he cant handle the Premier League - remmember the bile he got on here for not getting him?

Add: Samba, any Birmingham Centre Back, Joe Cole etc etc

He doesnt always know best, but sometimes he does.

you dont say, i dont think any fans are going to be making it big as football coaches. Remember people mentioning marko marin. German Messi?? German Gervinho . He has been trying very hard at chelsea but has looked very poor.

When fans are hankering for the likes of Joey Barton they really want something anything different to what we have. So I never take those suggestions too seriously. You can judge a man getting paid around 7M/yr on what he decides to buy and who he uses as his advisors.

If we were a serious club we wouldn't be exclusively look at the sub 15M market. We're not going to find much luck there. Non defensive players in the sub 15M market are limited. Looking at that price bracket I reckon players we could have got maybe could have got us top 4, but with our defending even an FA Cup would be out of the question. The league forget about it.