Would wenger be successful in pastures new?

[flash gunner]

In my opinion he's still a good manager but its gone stale at Arsenal with a freshen up at another club, new objectives, new personel etc.... who knows what he could do? Personally I think it would suit all round freshen himself up at another club and blow out of the old ways with a new manager at Arsenal

[kiwomya]

Wenger is yesterday's man.The signings of Chamakh Park Squillaci Santos and Gervinho in the last two years prove that.At any other top club in Europe he would have been shown the door a long time ago.

The only job he would be a success in is a manager of a bank

I agree they have proven to be poor signings but that's only half the story, isn't it? They cost about £20M odd for all of them which in todays game that isn't really much - that would be just about enough for a nice breakfast for Frank Lampard. It's also offset by the good players like Wilshire, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott (to some extent), Cazorla etc that have been brought through or into the club. Wenger still has the ability to create £20M+ footballers which is seen as a possitive thing in todays game and whilst he's still able to do that he will be held in high regard.

I think Wenger would be a success at the right club. I would agree that he would never be suited to the silly pressures of City, Chelsea etc though. I don't think PSG have reached that level yet being in the French league. They will no doubt win the league each season with very little competition.

Could have probably come up with better examples than that though! Cazorla is a very good player but cost nearly £20m. The fee and wages we spent on waiting for Walcott to come good has exceeded £20m easily. Probably going to be likewise with the Ox. Wilshere fair enough, but then how much credit are you going to apportion to the manager for someone that was picked up and brought through by other coaches from the age of 9? Not saying the manager doesn't have a hand in his development at all but it was pretty clear from the first few Carling Cup appearances that he was a special player.

I'm sure you'll agree that there's no money lost on those players, though. I only chose those particular ones because they are all more "modern" Wenger era signings. Whether people personally rate them or not, players like Fabregas, Song, Hleb, Nasri and Adebayor earned the club large amounts of money for what is considered to be very little outlay. That is a big deal in todays game!

I understand your point on Wilshire but Wenger has a policy of bringing through young players and not all clubs have the same philosophy. Would you say Wenger was lucky? Was Ferguson lucky to have had Beckham, Neville, Scholes etc?

[GranadaJoe]

I was surprised when a couple of my Real Madrid-supporting mates said they wanted Mourinho out and Wenger in. I guess not everybody shares our opinion of the last 7 years.

[Herd]

Are u saying the majority of match attending Arsenal fans are against Wenger ?
I dont care where he goes or what he does ,I have finally crossed the line and want him gone at the end of the season regardless of what we do or dont achieve however I do not see it happening .
I see the contract extending for another 4 years and with it 4 more years of purgatory !
I could manage Man City to the Title and for less !

[markyp]

its hard to say,maybe if he went to a smaller country and took his ideas of 'let them play' there too,bought in players that normally wouldnt be associated with that league,basically what im saying is if he took the same model that brought us success before everybody else caught on,caught up and over took us then yes he would be a success,however if he went somewhere big i.e PSG,Real Madrid etc then his tactical naviety would be his undoing same as it is here unless of course he could assemble the biggest and best squad ever seen in which case talent alone would be enough as a team of extreme quality needs very little instruction,apart from that hes a knob

[northbank123]

Wenger is yesterday's man.The signings of Chamakh Park Squillaci Santos and Gervinho in the last two years prove that.At any other top club in Europe he would have been shown the door a long time ago.

The only job he would be a success in is a manager of a bank

I agree they have proven to be poor signings but that's only half the story, isn't it? They cost about £20M odd for all of them which in todays game that isn't really much - that would be just about enough for a nice breakfast for Frank Lampard. It's also offset by the good players like Wilshire, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott (to some extent), Cazorla etc that have been brought through or into the club. Wenger still has the ability to create £20M+ footballers which is seen as a possitive thing in todays game and whilst he's still able to do that he will be held in high regard.

I think Wenger would be a success at the right club. I would agree that he would never be suited to the silly pressures of City, Chelsea etc though. I don't think PSG have reached that level yet being in the French league. They will no doubt win the league each season with very little competition.

Could have probably come up with better examples than that though! Cazorla is a very good player but cost nearly £20m. The fee and wages we spent on waiting for Walcott to come good has exceeded £20m easily. Probably going to be likewise with the Ox. Wilshere fair enough, but then how much credit are you going to apportion to the manager for someone that was picked up and brought through by other coaches from the age of 9? Not saying the manager doesn't have a hand in his development at all but it was pretty clear from the first few Carling Cup appearances that he was a special player.

I'm sure you'll agree that there's no money lost on those players, though. I only chose those particular ones because they are all more "modern" Wenger era signings. Whether people personally rate them or not, players like Fabregas, Song, Hleb, Nasri and Adebayor earned the club large amounts of money for what is considered to be very little outlay. That is a big deal in todays game!

I understand your point on Wilshire but Wenger has a policy of bringing through young players and not all clubs have the same philosophy. Would you say Wenger was lucky? Was Ferguson lucky to have had Beckham, Neville, Scholes etc?

In a word, yes.

There may not be any money lost on those players but, taking your Walcott example, should he really be heralded for paying about £10m and then millions more in wages for years with almost no end product just because he eventually becomes worth more than we signed him for? Seeing as the alternative would just be buying a £20m player, are we really that much better off than if we'd done that back in January 2006?

[goonersid]

I don't think he would, football has moved on where as Wenger hasn't.
When he does eventually fuck off, I see him having an unsuccessful spell at international level, probably with France, before a job in the far east beckons, and ultimately football obscurity.

[skizz_b]

in answer to the question, no i dont think so.

in general response to the premise he will manage elsewhere, i think he knows he is finished as an elite manager, is seeing his days out in a cushty job and will either become director of football somewhere or retire completely when he tears himself from the hot seat at arsenal

[kiwomya]

Wenger is yesterday's man.The signings of Chamakh Park Squillaci Santos and Gervinho in the last two years prove that.At any other top club in Europe he would have been shown the door a long time ago.

The only job he would be a success in is a manager of a bank

I agree they have proven to be poor signings but that's only half the story, isn't it? They cost about £20M odd for all of them which in todays game that isn't really much - that would be just about enough for a nice breakfast for Frank Lampard. It's also offset by the good players like Wilshire, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott (to some extent), Cazorla etc that have been brought through or into the club. Wenger still has the ability to create £20M+ footballers which is seen as a possitive thing in todays game and whilst he's still able to do that he will be held in high regard.

I think Wenger would be a success at the right club. I would agree that he would never be suited to the silly pressures of City, Chelsea etc though. I don't think PSG have reached that level yet being in the French league. They will no doubt win the league each season with very little competition.

Could have probably come up with better examples than that though! Cazorla is a very good player but cost nearly £20m. The fee and wages we spent on waiting for Walcott to come good has exceeded £20m easily. Probably going to be likewise with the Ox. Wilshere fair enough, but then how much credit are you going to apportion to the manager for someone that was picked up and brought through by other coaches from the age of 9? Not saying the manager doesn't have a hand in his development at all but it was pretty clear from the first few Carling Cup appearances that he was a special player.

I’m not sure if we’re better off because we still had Ljungberg, Reyes, Henry and others still on the books at the time. The Walcott example is slightly different from our other signings because it was a case of paying English prices for an English player. Same applies to Oxlade-Chamberlain. The difference between that and just buying a player for £20M+ is that they won’t initially start out on 100K a week or instantly want a starting place - not to mention the fact the club wouldn’t have paid £20M for a player in 2006. Walcott has been at Arsenal for 6/7 years and has only just reached the 100K mark. I would suggest he’s been much much cheaper than buying a ready made player at the time.

[DB10GOONER]

The difference between that and just buying a player for £20M+ is that they won’t initially start out on 100K a week or instantly want a starting place - not to mention the fact the club wouldn’t have paid £20M for a player in 2006. Walcott has been at Arsenal for 6/7 years and has only just reached the 100K mark. I would suggest he’s been much much cheaper than buying a ready made player at the time.

hmmm...

I don't know, mate. I see your point, but surely the criteria should be that a proven top class player should deliver results (say maybe 20+ PL goals a season and a few trophies) rather than it's cheaper to stick with Theo?

[northbank123]

Just putting some figures in here: say Walcott's first deal was £30k a week (not unreasonable estimate given our notoriety for overpaying youngsters and squad players) - just over £1.5m a year for nearly 3 and a half years, you're looking at about £5m already. Say that figure was increased to about £55k in his new deal in May 2009 - at £2.86m a year in the subsequent two and a half years that's over £7m.

So in reality before he'd even signed his new £100k/w deal he'd trousered about £12m in wages to add to his transfer fee. Even using the most conservative estimates of his transfer fee you've got nearly £20m outlay there, despite the fact we've only really seen any serious results in the last 15 months. It's not just the money too, it's the fact we relied on him for too long when he just wasn't ready/good enough.

Do we really need to give Wenger credit when other signings within 18 months of Theo in similar positions included Joe Cole (£6.6m), Arjen Robben (£12m) and Cristiano Ronaldo (£12m)? All young players, all reasonable fees (and resale value) and players who were doing the business whilst Theo scored 9 league goals in 4 and a half seasons.

[QuartzGooner]

Do we really need to give Wenger credit when other signings within 18 months of Theo in similar positions included Joe Cole (£6.6m), Arjen Robben (£12m) and Cristiano Ronaldo (£12m)? All young players, all reasonable fees (and resale value) and players who were doing the business whilst Theo scored 9 league goals in 4 and a half seasons.

We verbally agreed a deal with C Ronaldo, but he chose to go to Mancs.

[northbank123]

Do we really need to give Wenger credit when other signings within 18 months of Theo in similar positions included Joe Cole (£6.6m), Arjen Robben (£12m) and Cristiano Ronaldo (£12m)? All young players, all reasonable fees (and resale value) and players who were doing the business whilst Theo scored 9 league goals in 4 and a half seasons.

We verbally agreed a deal with C Ronaldo, but he chose to go to Mancs.

I was aware there was some history behind it. I wasn't necessarily saying those were the players we should have signed though (although they are, especially the latter two) - the point I was making is that I don't think we should be applauding Wenger for investing so much time and money in a 16-year old when other young but talented options were available at reasonable prices.

[BournemouthRED]

Think theo has a lot to answer for himself, the potential was there for sure. Still think he should've been loaned back to saints for a year.

He struggled with the move mentally, but he has a big part to play in this season.

I want wenger to go but i don't hate him, I was 12 when he took over so most of my arsenal supporting life he's been in charge. For someone who's done so much for our club the last 7-8 years will sour the memories of all the glory!

Maybe we'll win the champions league and fa cup this year!!





Then he can fuck off!

[QuartzGooner]

Do we really need to give Wenger credit when other signings within 18 months of Theo in similar positions included Joe Cole (£6.6m), Arjen Robben (£12m) and Cristiano Ronaldo (£12m)? All young players, all reasonable fees (and resale value) and players who were doing the business whilst Theo scored 9 league goals in 4 and a half seasons.

We verbally agreed a deal with C Ronaldo, but he chose to go to Mancs.

I was aware there was some history behind it. I wasn't necessarily saying those were the players we should have signed though (although they are, especially the latter two) - the point I was making is that I don't think we should be applauding Wenger for investing so much time and money in a 16-year old when other young but talented options were available at reasonable prices.

£9M for Walcott looks worth it.
If we had not bought him and another club had, we would now be complaining.