best ever allstar

[Fabrestuta]

1 Pat Jennings
2 Lee Dixon
3 Kenny Sansom
4 Tony Adams
5 David O' leary

6 Liam Brady
7 Robert Pires
8 Patrick Viera
10 Cesc Fabregas

9 Denis Bergkamp
11 Ian Wright
subs-David Seaman,Willie Young,Frank Mclintock,Tierry Henry,Alan Sunderland

You're letting your loyalty to the Gunners cloud your mind a bit.


Unless of course you misunderstood the question, which would actually make more sense considering your choices.. It wasn't about an all-star Arsenal 11.

[QuartzGooner]

To KHALID

Did you read this month's Arsenal mag?

Don Howe was the original attacking full back!

To FABRESTUTA

I rate Casillas...great athleticism and shot stopper.

Vieira scored less than Keane, but he had such a great physical presence in his prime that if you rate him say 2001 - 2004 he would just have to be in the team.

His leadership qualities too.

His abilty to win headers in midfield as well edged him ahead of Keane.

He was not really a defensive midfielder in my view.
He of course was a great tackler, and able to get into defensive positions.

Yet he would win the ball, and within a couple of seconds launch an attack by running from deep at pace, and able to make a good through ball for a pacy striker to latch onto and score with.

His attacking prowess, especially from 1996 - 2002, was fearsome.

He was able to drive the team forward by sheer determination, and rarely ever gave the ball away.

He would be in my team every time.

[Fabrestuta]

Fair enough man its your opinion and you're entitled to it, but, and I may sound like an old codger here, Casillas isn't even the best keeper around today imo. Buffon is so much better than him its not even close. I am going to guess you are young (if not I apollogise) but of all the great keepers that have come before there's Casillas isn't even in the top 10.

As for Vieira, he was afraid of Roy Keane, it was obvious every time they played and there's no two ways about it. How many times did we beat United when they went head to head? Vieira may have been more athletically gifted, but if you were to use that example Rio Ferdinand would be the greatest defender in history. Keane was the the type of leader that Vieira wished he could be, but he did his talking to the media while Keane did it on the park. As for scoring less than Keane, Keane only scored something like 50 league goals in his entire time at Yernited.
The fact is Roy Keane could probably walk into most teams in history and still perform well, but the same can't be said for Vieira, and no amount of loyalty will change that.

Keane was a much better player than Vieira, and when alls done and an all time premiership 11 is voted on it won't even be close. Sometimes you have to use your head and not your heart. While we can all agree Keane was a crunt, he was the heart and soul of a team that won title after title and dominated English football.

Put it this way, after Adams retired I truly believe we would have won more titles than we did with Vieira as captain.

[burns718]

Keane was a much better player than Vieira, and when alls done and an all time premiership 11 is voted on it won't even be close. Sometimes you have to use your head and not your heart. While we can all agree Keane was a crunt, he was the heart and soul of a team that won title after title and dominated English football.

it is true

[QuartzGooner]

I am 36. Is that young or old?

I rate Keane as a player, but I think he was made to look better than Vieira at times by playing alongside Scholes, Giggs and Beckham.

Plyers like Edu and Gilberto are decent enough, but witness how well they did if they ever played without Vieira in the line up.

Nowhere near as effective.

I do not believe Vieira was scared of Keane.

I do know that in his last two seasons at Arsenal, Vieira's knees were starting to go and his performances declined.

[Fabrestuta]

I wasn't trying to insult or belittle you, I apollogise if I did.


Vieira's and Keane's records are there for all to see, and frankly I (and deep down so would most Gooners) take Roy Keane over Patrick Vieira in a heartbeat.

As for Vieira not being afraid of Keane, did you not see him run away like a little bitch when Keane challenged him in the tunnel at Highbury, then the mancs went on to beat us 4- 2? and that wasn't the only time.

I loved Vieira but he was like a bully, he acted all hard but if he was challenged he was a pussy. Could you imagine Keane running away from Vieira at Old Trafford? Of course not, if it was reversed Keane would have broken his leg if he got the chance.

[QuartzGooner]

Well I did not see the tunnel incident until after the match, I remember it though.
Vieira did not rise to the bait...is my interpretation.

He was our skipper, and as such had to carry himself in a certain way.
The younger fireier Vieira would have got stuck in, I really believe that.

He towered over Keane, and was about 35 pounds heavier...I really think he was not scared.

Keane was never scared of anyone though, I will give him that. Ex amateur boxer.

I am not insulted by your arguments, you obviously believe strongly in your choices for the all star team so are arguing your corner.

[Fabrestuta]

Vieira started the tunnel incident. He had a go at Gary Neville over kicking Reyes off the pitch at Old Trafford, but when Keane got involved he legged it. Afterwards he claimed he walked away because the "ref told me to" but the image of Keane saying "we'll settle this on the pitch" will never leave me, because he backed it up.

Look I'm not standing up for him because he's a Paddy or anything, but in all honesty there's absolutely no comparison. If you just want to take the years Vieira was at Arsenal as an example, Keane won a lot more.

[I Hate Hleb]

Vieira started the tunnel incident. He had a go at Gary Neville over kicking Reyes off the pitch at Old Trafford, but when Keane got involved he legged it. Afterwards he claimed he walked away because the "ref told me to" but the image of Keane saying "we'll settle this on the pitch" will never leave me, because he backed it up.

Look I'm not standing up for him because he's a Paddy or anything, but in all honesty there's absolutely no comparison. If you just want to take the years Vieira was at Arsenal as an example, Keane won a lot more.

THAT'S NOT QUITE HOW I REMEMBER IT. YES PATRICK HAD A GO AT NEVILLE AND THEN ROY KEANE CAME ON THE SCENE. HOWEVER, WHEN KEANE WAS GIVING IT THE "WHY DON'T YOU HAVE A GO AT ME?" AND "ME AND YOU", PATRICK WAS SAYING "COME ON THEN!". THAT'S WHEN GRAHAM POLL INTERVENED AND TOLD THEM TO CALM IT DOWN. KEANE THEN SAID 'WE'LL SEE ON THE PITCH", AND IF YOU REMEMBER RIGHTLY - AS I DO - SPENT THE WHOLE FIRST HALF NOWHERE NEAR VIERIA!!

INDEED, PATRICK NOT ONLY OPENED THE SCORING, HE ALSO DOMINATED THAT FIRST HALF IN WHICH WE COULD HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF GOALS UP. DID KEANO TRY TO 'DO HIM' AS HE HAD THREATENED TO IN THE TUNNEL? WELL, HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE BEEN ON THE SAME PART OF THE PITCH TO EVEN ATTEMPT IT, WHICH HE PLAINLY WASN'T IN THE FIRST HALF!!

GRANTED, KEANE THEN MADE A MASSIVE CONTRIBUTION TOWARDS UNITED'S SECOND HALF COMEBACK AND BECAUSE THEY ULTIMATELY WON THE MATCH, THAT'S WHAT IS REMEMBERED. AS THE OLD SAYING GOES: HISTORY IS USUALLY WRITTEN BY THE VICTOR (OR IN THIS CASE, BY HIS CRONIES IN THE MEDIA).

GREAT PLAYER AND HARDMAN THAT KEANE UNDOUBTEDLY WAS, I HAVE TO SAY THAT THIS 'MYTH' ABOUT VIEIRA BEING SCARED OF KEANE IS JUST THAT - A MYTH!!

[Hagbard 23]

Vieira, 'SCARED of Keane ???

What utter Bollox.

[Fabrestuta]

We in general dominated the first half of that game, but as you will also remember, United used us in the second.

I am not basing my judgment on just one game though, when Keane and Vieira went head to head Keane invariably came out the winner.

IHH if you had to pick one, who would you say was the better player?

Oh and Hagbard why is it bollocks? Ever see Keane diving when he was up against Vieira? No you didn't. Ever see Vieira diving when he was up against Keane? that would be a big fat YES.

[Red Gunner]

To KHALID

Did you read this month's Arsenal mag?

Don Howe was the original attacking full back!

I think I've got this month's issue (Fabregas on the cover) but haven't read it yet. That might be so but I though I'd prefer having an Inter Milan legend rather than a West Brom one And Facchetti was the first one to display it at truly top level.

The Vieira vs Keane incident

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM0E9rfc ... re=related

All I know is that nobody messes with Cygan

[Hagbard 23]

Oh and Hagbard why is it bollocks? Ever see Keane diving when he was up against Vieira? No you didn't. Ever see Vieira diving when he was up against Keane? that would be a big fat YES.

Doesn't mean he's 'scared' of him though does it ?

[I Hate Hleb]

We in general dominated the first half of that game, but as you will also remember, United used us in the second...

THEREFORE IT MUST SHOOT DOWN THE CLAIM THAT VIEIRA WAS 'SCARED' OR INTIMIDATED BY THE TUNNEL INCIDENT. ALSO, CAN YOU REMEMBER ONE SINGLE COMING TOGETHER OF THE PLAYERS - ESPECIALLY IN THE FIRST HALF WHEN TEMPERS WOULD HAVE STILL BE FRAYED? PROBABLY NOT, AND IF THAT IS THE CASE, WHAT HAPPENED TO KEANO'S THREATS TO DO PATRICK IN? THEY DIDN'T MATERIALISE DID THEY?

I REMEMBER THE INCIDENT WELL BECAUSE I SAW IT BOTH LIVE ON TV AND SUBSEQUENTLY. THE THING THAT STRUCK ME WAS THAT IN THE SKY VERSION KEANE IS SHOUTING THE ODDS AND YOU DON'T HEAR PATRICK'S RESPONSE. ON ANOTHER VERSION I'VE SEEN A WHILE BACK, WHEN KEANO IS MAKING THE THREATS ABOUT 'ME AND YOU THEN' VIEIRA WAS SHOUTING BACK AT HIM 'COME ON THEN!!', TO WHICH KEANE REPLIED "OUT ON THE PITCH". GRAHAM POLL WAS SAYING SOMETHING SIMILAR WHILST TRYING TO GET BOTH OF THEM TO KEEP CALM IN THE TUNNEL.

I am not basing my judgment on just one game though, when Keane and Vieira went head to head Keane invariably came out the winner..

IF YOU MEAN RESULTS WISE, YOU MAY BE RIGHT BUT I CAN'T BE ARSED TO LOOK IT UP. BUT AS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONFRONTATIONS, I BELIEVE YOU TO BE WRONG. DON'T YOU REMEMBER VIEIRA GRABBING UP KEANE DURING A MATCH AT HIGHBURY (1999/2000?) OR THE TIME HE WENT AFTER HIM AT OLD TRAFFORD (THE YEAR AFTER?). THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT KEANE HAS THE 'NUTTERS' STREAK IN HIM WHILST PATRICK NEEDS TO BE WOUND UP TO LOSE IT. HOWEVER THE TRUTH IS WE DON'T KNOW WHO WOULD COME OUT ON TOP IN A PROPER FIGHT AND WHATEVER THE RESULT, THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN CLAIM WITH ANY CREDIBILITY THAT PATRICK WOULD BE SCARED BY THE CHALLENGE.

IHH if you had to pick one, who would you say was the better player?.

NOT SITTING ON THE FENCE BUT I HONESTLY COULDN'T PICK ONE. I THINK BOTH OF THEM WERE WORLD CLASS AT THEIR PEAK AND IF I HAD ONLY ONE CHOICE, IT WOULD PROBABLY COME DOWN TO WHAT MY TEAM NEEDED MOST.

THE ONE ASPECT WHERE KEANE PROBABLY DOES COME OUT CLEARLY ON TOP IS IN THE LEADERSHIP STAKES. HE WAS A GREAT CAPTAIN AND NOT ONLY LEAD BY EXAMPLE, LIKE PATRICK DID. HE ALSO KNEW HOW TO CRACK THE WHIP AND GET MORE OUT OF HIS PLAYERS.

PUT IT LIKE THIS, I WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE THAN HAPPY TO HAVE EITHER OF THEM.

[Fabrestuta]

Oh and Hagbard why is it bollocks? Ever see Keane diving when he was up against Vieira? No you didn't. Ever see Vieira diving when he was up against Keane? that would be a big fat YES.

Doesn't mean he's 'scared' of him though does it ?

Well its all a matter of opinion. Personally I believe that Vieira was intimidated by Keane and that showed in the results we got against them.