best ever allstar

[Fabrestuta]

We in general dominated the first half of that game, but as you will also remember, United used us in the second...

THEREFORE IT MUST SHOOT DOWN THE CLAIM THAT VIEIRA WAS 'SCARED' OR INTIMIDATED BY THE TUNNEL INCIDENT. ALSO, CAN YOU REMEMBER ONE SINGLE COMING TOGETHER OF THE PLAYERS - ESPECIALLY IN THE FIRST HALF WHEN TEMPERS WOULD HAVE STILL BE FRAYED? PROBABLY NOT, AND IF THAT IS THE CASE, WHAT HAPPENED TO KEANO'S THREATS TO DO PATRICK IN? THEY DIDN'T MATERIALISE DID THEY?

I REMEMBER THE INCIDENT WELL BECAUSE I SAW IT BOTH LIVE ON TV AND SUBSEQUENTLY. THE THING THAT STRUCK ME WAS THAT IN THE SKY VERSION KEANE IS SHOUTING THE ODDS AND YOU DON'T HEAR PATRICK'S RESPONSE. ON ANOTHER VERSION I'VE SEEN A WHILE BACK, WHEN KEANO IS MAKING THE THREATS ABOUT 'ME AND YOU THEN' VIEIRA WAS SHOUTING BACK AT HIM 'COME ON THEN!!', TO WHICH KEANE REPLIED "OUT ON THE PITCH". GRAHAM POLL WAS SAYING SOMETHING SIMILAR WHILST TRYING TO GET BOTH OF THEM TO KEEP CALM IN THE TUNNEL.

I am not basing my judgment on just one game though, when Keane and Vieira went head to head Keane invariably came out the winner..

IF YOU MEAN RESULTS WISE, YOU MAY BE RIGHT BUT I CAN'T BE ARSED TO LOOK IT UP. BUT AS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONFRONTATIONS, I BELIEVE YOU TO BE WRONG. DON'T YOU REMEMBER VIEIRA GRABBING UP KEANE DURING A MATCH AT HIGHBURY (1999/2000?) OR THE TIME HE WENT AFTER HIM AT OLD TRAFFORD (THE YEAR AFTER?). THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT KEANE HAS THE 'NUTTERS' STREAK IN HIM WHILST PATRICK NEEDS TO BE WOUND UP TO LOSE IT. HOWEVER THE TRUTH IS WE DON'T KNOW WHO WOULD COME OUT ON TOP IN A PROPER FIGHT AND WHATEVER THE RESULT, THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN CLAIM WITH ANY CREDIBILITY THAT PATRICK WOULD BE SCARED BY THE CHALLENGE.

IHH if you had to pick one, who would you say was the better player?.

NOT SITTING ON THE FENCE BUT I HONESTLY COULDN'T PICK ONE. I THINK BOTH OF THEM WERE WORLD CLASS AT THEIR PEAK AND IF I HAD ONLY ONE CHOICE, IT WOULD PROBABLY COME DOWN TO WHAT MY TEAM NEEDED MOST.

THE ONE ASPECT WHERE KEANE PROBABLY DOES COME OUT CLEARLY ON TOP IS IN THE LEADERSHIP STAKES. HE WAS A GREAT CAPTAIN AND NOT ONLY LEAD BY EXAMPLE, LIKE PATRICK DID. HE ALSO KNEW HOW TO CRACK THE WHIP AND GET MORE OUT OF HIS PLAYERS.

PUT IT LIKE THIS, I WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE THAN HAPPY TO HAVE EITHER OF THEM.

My point about Keane saying "we'll settle this on the pitch" wasn't referring to fighting him, I meant the actual game and result, and in that regards Keane (and United) backed it up. We were at home, playing our most hated rival (in regards to challenging for trophies, not historically) and we put up a good show in the first half but rolled over and let them fuck us in the arse in the second.

[Red Gunner]

I REMEMBER THE INCIDENT WELL BECAUSE I SAW IT BOTH LIVE ON TV AND SUBSEQUENTLY. THE THING THAT STRUCK ME WAS THAT IN THE SKY VERSION KEANE IS SHOUTING THE ODDS AND YOU DON'T HEAR PATRICK'S RESPONSE. ON ANOTHER VERSION I'VE SEEN A WHILE BACK, WHEN KEANO IS MAKING THE THREATS ABOUT 'ME AND YOU THEN' VIEIRA WAS SHOUTING BACK AT HIM 'COME ON THEN!!', TO WHICH KEANE REPLIED "OUT ON THE PITCH". GRAHAM POLL WAS SAYING SOMETHING SIMILAR WHILST TRYING TO GET BOTH OF THEM TO KEEP CALM IN THE TUNNEL.

The unedited version of the incident. You can clearly hear Vieira say "Come on, come on".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKj8msoE ... re=related

[Hagbard 23]

...Well its all a matter of opinion.

Quite right matey.

Opinions are great aren't they.

In my opinion Roy Keane is fecking dirty, ex Manc scum, Twat.

[Fabrestuta]

...Well its all a matter of opinion.

Quite right matey.

Opinions are great aren't they.

In my opinion Roy Keane is fecking dirty, ex Manc scum, Twat.

Hmm I sense sarcasm but I'm not sure

[Hagbard 23]

Sarcasm, moi ?

[I Hate Hleb]

BUT FABRESTUTA, IF YOU'RE TALKING MERELY OF THE END RESULT OF THE MATCH, WHERE DID THE 'VIEIRA WAS SCARED OF KEANE' LINE COME FROM?

IT WAS SURELY MEANT TO IMPLY THAT PATRICK WAS SOMEHOW INTIMIDATED PHYSICALLY, AS YOU USED THE 'TUNNEL' INCIDENT TO BACK UP YOUR POINT. SURELY ALL YOU HAD TO SAY WAS MAN UNITED WITH KEANE HAD BETTER RESULTS AGAINST AN ARSENAL LED BY VIEIRA, IF THAT WAS ULTIMATELY YOUR POINT?

[Fabrestuta]

BUT FABRESTUTA, IF YOU'RE TALKING MERELY OF THE END RESULT OF THE MATCH, WHERE DID THE 'VIEIRA WAS SCARED OF KEANE' LINE COME FROM?

IT WAS SURELY MEANT TO IMPLY THAT PATRICK WAS SOMEHOW INTIMIDATED PHYSICALLY, AS YOU USED THE 'TUNNEL' INCIDENT TO BACK UP YOUR POINT. SURELY ALL YOU HAD TO SAY WAS MAN UNITED WITH KEANE HAD BETTER RESULTS AGAINST AN ARSENAL LED BY VIEIRA, IF THAT WAS ULTIMATELY YOUR POINT?

Yes I do mean Keane was intimidated by him, and I was just using the tunnel incident as an example. Whether or not Vieria was yelling back at him is irrelevant, the fact is he ran away, thats there for all to see.

[I Hate Hleb]

NO IT'S NOT!! RAN AWAY WHERE? BECAUSE HE WAS THE FIRST ONE DOWN THE TUNNEL? DIDN'T YOU NOTICE THAT HE WAS DRAGGED THERE BY CYGAN?

I'VE WALKED DOWN THAT PLAYERS TUNNEL AND YOU CAN BEARLY FIT TWO PEOPLE NEXT TO EACHOTHER, SUCH WAS THE LACK OF SPACE. SOMEONE HAD TO BE THE FIRST DOWN THERE.

[Fabrestuta]

He wasn't exactly "dragged" by Cygan, and I may be in the minority but Vieira doesn't look like he's having to be restrained from going at Keane.

[I Hate Hleb]

SO, BECAUSE KEANE CAME DOWN THE TUNNEL SECOND AND WAS SWEARING, AND BECAUSE PATRICK DIDN'T TRY TO GRAB HIM UP THERE AND THEN, THAT MEANS VIEIRA WAS 'SCARED'? WHAT ABSOLUTE NONSENSE!!

YOU STARTED YOUR SERIES OF POSTS BY FIRST CLAIMING VIEIRA WAS SCARED; THEN DENYING YOU MEANT IT IN THAT WAY BUT INSTEAD MEANT KEANE GOT THE UPPER HAND IN TERMS OF THE ACTUAL RESULT; THEN IT WAS 'WELL I THOUGHT KEANE GOT THE BETTEER OF HIM FOOTBALL WISE' WHENEVER THEY PLAYED AGAINST EACHOTHER; AND NOW IT'S RETURNED TO VIEIRA BE INTIMIDATED AGAIN BECAUSE HE DIDN'T GRAB KEANE BY THE THROAT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TUNNEL!!

DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW IF THEY EXCHANGED BLOWS AT THE TOP OF THE TUNNEL? HAVE YOU SEEN ANY FILM OF IT? IF NOT, HOW CAN YOU MAKE SUCH AN ASSESSMENT FROM TV PICTURES COMING SOLEY FROM ONE ANGLE AND WITH THE AUDIO SELECTIVELY ALTERED? BY THE WAY, OF THE TWO KEANE WAS THE ONE THAT LOOKED FLUSTERED BY THE EVENTS THAT HAD PRECEDED THEM COMING DOWN THE TUNNEL. PATRICK LOOKED AS CALM AS ANYTHING.

YOU'RE ENTITLED TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT BUT IN MY OPINION THE STATEMENT YOU MADE ABOUT VIEIRA IS NOT BACKED UP BY THE FACTS.

[Red Gunner]

Doesn't look scared to me on this picture

[Fabrestuta]

I'm not denying anything you keep trying to twist what I say, something I've noticed you are quite fond of btw.

I said Vieira was afraid of him and I said Keane said we'll settle it on the pitch, I also said Vieira ran away from him I answered all of your points and I explained why, but for some reason thats not enough for you.

For a moderator you are quite the little bully aren't you? whenever anyone disagrees with you, you for reasons known only to yourself, try to belittle them, does it make you feel like a big man?

[Fabrestuta]

Oh sorry. I meant when anyone disagrees with you apart from the few people here who can repeat what every else has said but they get 10 quotes saying how clever they are.

Enjoy your forum, its no wonder people are leaving to start their own because there's a clique here that no one else is allowed to become part of

Have a good one, kiss my arse.

[I Hate Hleb]

I'm not denying anything you keep trying to twist what I say, something I've noticed you are quite fond of btw.?

REALLY? OR IS IT THAT I'M POINTING OUT HOW FALSE YOUR ARGUEMENT IS?

I said Vieira was afraid of him and I said Keane said we'll settle it on the pitch, I also said Vieira ran away from him I answered all of your points and I explained why, but for some reason thats not enough for you.?

AND I EXPLAINED THAT IF HE MEANT PHYSICALLY, WHY DIDN'T KEANE GO NEAR HIM DURING THE FIRST HALF!! THAT'S WHEN YOU CHANGED IT TO MEANING THE RESULT. AS FOR RUNNING AWAY, LIKE I SAID, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO BACK UP THAT ASSERTION. IT WASN'T ENOUGH FOR ME BECAUSE I FOUND YOUR EXPLAINATIONS A TOUCH BAFFLING, IF NOT DOWN-RIGHT ERRONEOUS.

For a moderator you are quite the little bully aren't you? whenever anyone disagrees with you, you for reasons known only to yourself, try to belittle them, does it make you feel like a big man?

BULLY? ME? OH, YOU POOR SENSITIVE SOUL!! LISTEN BUDDIE, NO-ONE'S TRYING TO BELITTLE ANYONE (UNTIL JUST NOW, AND ONLY IN RESPONSE TO YOUR INSULTS!!). IF YOU WANT TO MAKE OUTLANDISH STATEMENTS AND THEN START THROWING YOUR TOYS OUT OF THE PRAM OR INSULTS ABOUT WHEN PEOPLE PICK YOU UP ON THEM, THEN THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE!! WHEN SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH ME, I DEBATE THE POINTS - THAT'S WHAT YOU DO ON A FORUM!! AND BY THE WAY, I'M ALREADY A 'BIG MAN', WHETHER OR NOT I AM A MODERATOR!!

[I Hate Hleb]

Oh sorry. I meant when anyone disagrees with you apart from the few people here who can repeat what every else has said but they get 10 quotes saying how clever they are.

Enjoy your forum, its no wonder people are leaving to start their own because there's a clique here that no one else is allowed to become part of

Have a good one, kiss my arse.

CONTRARY TO YOUR STATEMENT - NOT FOR THE FIRST TIME - THE FACT IS THE FORUM HAS NEVER BEEN SO POPULAR. HOWEVER, FEEL FREE TO JOIN ANOTHER ONE MORE TO YOUR TASTE.

AH, THE OLD 'CLIQUE' EXCUSE WHENEVER SOMEONE IS IN THE MINORITY WITH REGARDS A DEBATE!!

SEE YA!!