THE WENGER THREAD

[flash gunner]

If you look back to 2007ish Donaldo, who as far as i can see is one of the most Anti-Wengerites these days, was on here telling people to give him time he'll get things sorted out. Many accusations have been levelled at this forum over time and one of them is this is THE most anti Wenger forum about but i find find it refreshing to see how people like donaldo have changed and that he or any of us haven't always been frustrated by Wenger and the current set up.

I have no problem with people still trusting Wengers judgement but looking back we all did at one point or another and rightly or wrongly views have changed

[Clash]

Is Wenger the man who went all season unbeaten and Arsenal are known as the Invincibles? Is Wenger the man who won a couple of doubles? Is wenger the man who has won a few trophies? Is wenger the man who hasn't won a trophie for 8years but got to a Champions league final and a league cup final in that time? Is Wenger the man who hasnt been able to compete financially with foriegn investors recently, but soon will be able to just like Bayern, when the stadiums paid for? I think I'll stick by him a little bit longer, and watch him win the prem again.
Roll on saturday and stuff the mancs.

And is Wenger the man who is the manager of the club that has some of the most gullible fans in football?

It's quite possible but who is on which side of the gullible fence is a point of debate.

You mean in the way the Flat Earth Society still think the shape of the earth is still up for debate?

[Steve_I]

If you look back to 2007ish Donaldo, who as far as i can see is one of the most Anti-Wengerites these days, was on here telling people to give him time he'll get things sorted out. Many accusations have been levelled at this forum over time and one of them is this is THE most anti Wenger forum about but i find find it refreshing to see how people like donaldo have changed and that he or any of us haven't always been frustrated by Wenger and the current set up.

I have no problem with people still trusting Wengers judgement but looking back we all did at one point or another and rightly or wrongly views have changed

it does certainly seem to be 'up there' in the antiwengerleague (lol remember the anti nowhere league? Shit band who set out to be shit and achieved it lol ) as forum go. I see your point about it refreshing to see folk can change their standpoint although I wonder how much of that is down to the envioronment? I would hazard a guess a large percentage. Makes it neither right nor wrong, but it is certainly a place where the general view is perhaps greater than the sum of the parts and rather like a black hole is difficult to avoid getting sucked in. (obv this is how I'd see it ofc)

Looking back through the thread the folk still about and commenting tend to be those who 'follow the local path' as it were and those who stand against them seem to either have fucked off or are lurking to await the inevitable sea change and come flooding back to shout I told you so when people like me are proved right (perhaps)

[Steve_I]

Is Wenger the man who went all season unbeaten and Arsenal are known as the Invincibles? Is Wenger the man who won a couple of doubles? Is wenger the man who has won a few trophies? Is wenger the man who hasn't won a trophie for 8years but got to a Champions league final and a league cup final in that time? Is Wenger the man who hasnt been able to compete financially with foriegn investors recently, but soon will be able to just like Bayern, when the stadiums paid for? I think I'll stick by him a little bit longer, and watch him win the prem again.
Roll on saturday and stuff the mancs.

And is Wenger the man who is the manager of the club that has some of the most gullible fans in football?

It's quite possible but who is on which side of the gullible fence is a point of debate.

You mean in the way the Flat Earth Society still think the shape of the earth is still up for debate?

exactly!

[Clash]

If you look back to 2007ish Donaldo, who as far as i can see is one of the most Anti-Wengerites these days, was on here telling people to give him time he'll get things sorted out. Many accusations have been levelled at this forum over time and one of them is this is THE most anti Wenger forum about but i find find it refreshing to see how people like donaldo have changed and that he or any of us haven't always been frustrated by Wenger and the current set up.

I have no problem with people still trusting Wengers judgement but looking back we all did at one point or another and rightly or wrongly views have changed

I think its pretty straightforward.

Wenger once did things and said things that made us all love him. But in the last few years he has done things and said things that have made a lot of us detest him.

There are reasons people have changed towards him. None of us woke up one day and just decided we'd had enough of liking him.

What many Wenger supporters cannot seem to grasp is that someone can earn respect but later on they can lose it. It seems that to some, Wenger will forever be able to live off of past glories, no matter how loathsome and useless he becomes.

[Steve_I]

If you look back to 2007ish Donaldo, who as far as i can see is one of the most Anti-Wengerites these days, was on here telling people to give him time he'll get things sorted out. Many accusations have been levelled at this forum over time and one of them is this is THE most anti Wenger forum about but i find find it refreshing to see how people like donaldo have changed and that he or any of us haven't always been frustrated by Wenger and the current set up.

I have no problem with people still trusting Wengers judgement but looking back we all did at one point or another and rightly or wrongly views have changed

I think its pretty straightforward.

Wenger once did things and said things that made us all love him. But in the last few years he has done things and said things that have made a lot of us detest him.

There are reasons people have changed towards him. None of us woke up one day and just decided we'd had enough of liking him.

What many Wenger supporters cannot seem to grasp is that someone can earn respect but later on they can lose it. It seems that to some, Wenger will forever be able to live off of past glories, no matter how loathsome and useless he becomes.

The thing is that it is possible to grasp that earned respect can be lost but to say Arsene is loathsome and useless is just something I can't accept. That is not denial that is simple interpretaion of what loathsome and useless is. Mine clearly being different from yours it seem

[Clash]

If you look back to 2007ish Donaldo, who as far as i can see is one of the most Anti-Wengerites these days, was on here telling people to give him time he'll get things sorted out. Many accusations have been levelled at this forum over time and one of them is this is THE most anti Wenger forum about but i find find it refreshing to see how people like donaldo have changed and that he or any of us haven't always been frustrated by Wenger and the current set up.

I have no problem with people still trusting Wengers judgement but looking back we all did at one point or another and rightly or wrongly views have changed

I think its pretty straightforward.

Wenger once did things and said things that made us all love him. But in the last few years he has done things and said things that have made a lot of us detest him.

There are reasons people have changed towards him. None of us woke up one day and just decided we'd had enough of liking him.

What many Wenger supporters cannot seem to grasp is that someone can earn respect but later on they can lose it. It seems that to some, Wenger will forever be able to live off of past glories, no matter how loathsome and useless he becomes.

The thing is that it is possible to grasp that earned respect can be lost but to say Arsene is loathsome and useless is just something I can't accept. That is not denial that is simple interpretaion of what loathsome and useless is. Mine clearly being different from yours it seem

That's fair enough mate!

Personally I cant think of any useful thing that Wenger brings to the club now though so that's why I can comfortably call label him useless.

And I don't like being lied to, ripped off, patronised or taken for granted so I can comfortably use the word loathsome too!

[Steve_I]

If you look back to 2007ish Donaldo, who as far as i can see is one of the most Anti-Wengerites these days, was on here telling people to give him time he'll get things sorted out. Many accusations have been levelled at this forum over time and one of them is this is THE most anti Wenger forum about but i find find it refreshing to see how people like donaldo have changed and that he or any of us haven't always been frustrated by Wenger and the current set up.

I have no problem with people still trusting Wengers judgement but looking back we all did at one point or another and rightly or wrongly views have changed

I think its pretty straightforward.

Wenger once did things and said things that made us all love him. But in the last few years he has done things and said things that have made a lot of us detest him.

There are reasons people have changed towards him. None of us woke up one day and just decided we'd had enough of liking him.

What many Wenger supporters cannot seem to grasp is that someone can earn respect but later on they can lose it. It seems that to some, Wenger will forever be able to live off of past glories, no matter how loathsome and useless he becomes.

The thing is that it is possible to grasp that earned respect can be lost but to say Arsene is loathsome and useless is just something I can't accept. That is not denial that is simple interpretaion of what loathsome and useless is. Mine clearly being different from yours it seem

That's fair enough mate!

Personally I cant think of any useful thing that Wenger brings to the club now though so that's why I can comfortably call label him useless.

And I don't like being lied to, ripped off, patronised or taken for granted so I can comfortably use the word loathsome too!

Fair play, if that's how you see it. Just remember, the World is actually round

[flash gunner]

If you look back to 2007ish Donaldo, who as far as i can see is one of the most Anti-Wengerites these days, was on here telling people to give him time he'll get things sorted out. Many accusations have been levelled at this forum over time and one of them is this is THE most anti Wenger forum about but i find find it refreshing to see how people like donaldo have changed and that he or any of us haven't always been frustrated by Wenger and the current set up.

I have no problem with people still trusting Wengers judgement but looking back we all did at one point or another and rightly or wrongly views have changed

it does certainly seem to be 'up there' in the antiwengerleague (lol remember the anti nowhere league? Shit band who set out to be shit and achieved it lol ) as forum go. I see your point about it refreshing to see folk can change their standpoint although I wonder how much of that is down to the envioronment? I would hazard a guess a large percentage. Makes it neither right nor wrong, but it is certainly a place where the general view is perhaps greater than the sum of the parts and rather like a black hole is difficult to avoid getting sucked in. (obv this is how I'd see it ofc)

Looking back through the thread the folk still about and commenting tend to be those who 'follow the local path' as it were and those who stand against them seem to either have fucked off or are lurking to await the inevitable sea change and come flooding back to shout I told you so when people like me are proved right (perhaps)

I dont remember that band..... Maybe people have followed the crowd but having been on here for far too long now you can see the steady change in peoples views. As the thread shows in 2008 there was a few wanting change and steadily, possibly following the decline in our fortunes, others have changed too. Even mods brazilianGOONER and then DB10 not that long ago was saying i'll give him til the summer to sort things out. When it didn't happen opinions have changed. As i said i dont mind people having the view he is still the right man and enjoy the non-abusive debate of it but i feel you/they are wrong

[Steve_I]

If you look back to 2007ish Donaldo, who as far as i can see is one of the most Anti-Wengerites these days, was on here telling people to give him time he'll get things sorted out. Many accusations have been levelled at this forum over time and one of them is this is THE most anti Wenger forum about but i find find it refreshing to see how people like donaldo have changed and that he or any of us haven't always been frustrated by Wenger and the current set up.

I have no problem with people still trusting Wengers judgement but looking back we all did at one point or another and rightly or wrongly views have changed

it does certainly seem to be 'up there' in the antiwengerleague (lol remember the anti nowhere league? Shit band who set out to be shit and achieved it lol ) as forum go. I see your point about it refreshing to see folk can change their standpoint although I wonder how much of that is down to the envioronment? I would hazard a guess a large percentage. Makes it neither right nor wrong, but it is certainly a place where the general view is perhaps greater than the sum of the parts and rather like a black hole is difficult to avoid getting sucked in. (obv this is how I'd see it ofc)

Looking back through the thread the folk still about and commenting tend to be those who 'follow the local path' as it were and those who stand against them seem to either have fucked off or are lurking to await the inevitable sea change and come flooding back to shout I told you so when people like me are proved right (perhaps)

I dont remember that band..... Maybe people have followed the crowd but having been on here for far too long now you can see the steady change in peoples views. As the thread shows in 2008 there was a few wanting change and steadily, possibly following the decline in our fortunes, others have changed too. Even mods brazilianGOONER and then DB10 not that long ago was saying i'll give him til the summer to sort things out. When it didn't happen opinions have changed. As i said i dont mind people having the view he is still the right man and enjoy the non-abusive debate of it but i feel you/they are wrong

clearly you feel I am wrong as I do you, that much will not change - certainly in the foreseeable future. I think the crux remains (as I have mentioned before) the views of what is and is not failure. certainly what level of 'failure' actually constitutes failure (i know what I mean there anyway ) 'decline in our fortunes' is interesting as I think it has effectively held steady and what folk see is a decline is, in fact, a failure to reach the peak again.

Obviously we all want to reach that peak and of course I believe we will with our current boss and, again as I have said before, in a decade when I look back (if things remain the same in non playing personel at the club) We will be up there and we are the only club I feel one can say that confidently about. I also feel that as I look back (when we get there) I will see a collection of trophies, by us, between now and then.

it is a good thing you do not remember that band - many folk think punk was bad (and one can see why perhaps) but even punk thought they were bad

[flash gunner]

I agree its all about expectations and they may vary between different people, back in the early to mid 80's i was a kid and just enjoyed watching Arsenal and a cup win would be enough. Around '89 i was going regular and i wanted more of the success. After the golden years of Wenger 98-05 i expected more. Maybe it was unrealistic to expect such things but united have won consistently for 20 years and having had such a dominant team and a magical manager we should be doing the same.

Now from then we have gone backwards and with the backwards trend promises from the board about how moving away from highbury would allow us to compete with madrid and barca when in reality we're nowhere near that, a manager that seems not to be able to see the plainly visible deficiencies in team selection, tactics, transfers (i could go on) and the huge hikes in ticket prices that doesnt allow me to watch my team all (for me) equals something is wrong throughout the club and i want/expect better. We should be winning leagues not have a manager saying he's happy with top 4

[goonersid]

I agree its all about expectations and they may vary between different people, back in the early to mid 80's i was a kid and just enjoyed watching Arsenal and a cup win would be enough. Around '89 i was going regular and i wanted more of the success. After the golden years of Wenger 98-05 i expected more. Maybe it was unrealistic to expect such things but united have won consistently for 20 years and having had such a dominant team and a magical manager we should be doing the same.

Now from then we have gone backwards and with the backwards trend promises from the board about how moving away from highbury would allow us to compete with madrid and barca when in reality we're nowhere near that, a manager that seems not to be able to see the plainly visible deficiencies in team selection, tactics, transfers (i could go on) and the huge hikes in ticket prices that doesnt allow me to watch my team all (for me) equals something is wrong throughout the club and i want/expect better. We should be winning leagues not have a manager saying he's happy with top 4

Another factor is ticket prices, we now pay arguably the highest in the prem league if not the whole fucking world. That gives us a right not to expect, but in fact demand success.

[defleppardisking]

And why the hell is he one of the world's highest paid manager? For winning nothing for 8 yrs?

[markyp]

You have to take a look at Liverpool,look what King Kenny acheived,but thats history,they saw sense and realised he wasnt the man to take them forward,his methods were outdated,he was out of touch,all the silverware of the 80's want to return,unfortunately for us we are the polar opposite,too many sheep think Wenger will return the glory days,IT WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN,IT IS OUR PAST.we need to move on quickly as we are slowy regressing

[Steve_I]

I agree its all about expectations and they may vary between different people, back in the early to mid 80's i was a kid and just enjoyed watching Arsenal and a cup win would be enough. Around '89 i was going regular and i wanted more of the success. After the golden years of Wenger 98-05 i expected more. Maybe it was unrealistic to expect such things but united have won consistently for 20 years and having had such a dominant team and a magical manager we should be doing the same.

Now from then we have gone backwards and with the backwards trend promises from the board about how moving away from highbury would allow us to compete with madrid and barca when in reality we're nowhere near that, a manager that seems not to be able to see the plainly visible deficiencies in team selection, tactics, transfers (i could go on) and the huge hikes in ticket prices that doesnt allow me to watch my team all (for me) equals something is wrong throughout the club and i want/expect better. We should be winning leagues not have a manager saying he's happy with top 4

I think "we should be doing the same." is perhaps understandable but personally feel that we remain fortunate to be in such a position that we can feel that. I am not for one second saying I am happy to be in that position and no better but I do feel it is more than an incompetent/visionless/clueless manager would maintain. I would LOVE to be doing the same as united but also know, however annoyed it makes some folk, that 8 years is but a negligible time given what I believe we will achieve.