Formation

[northbank123]

Of all the things that drive me mad about this Arsenal team our formation is number 1. I don't know how we're able to play the same set-up every game without fail and admit we don't change tactics based on opposition without criticism when other coaches' tactical decisions are analysed in infinite detail on MOTD etc.

Firstly, let's be fair, it doesn't really work for us. It relies on a world-class complete forward (which we don't have), arguably a very good holding midfielder who allows the creative players in front more freedom (which we don't have), central midfielders who constantly get into the box to provide another target from crosses so that we aren't aiming for one attacker amongst 4 defenders (which we don't have) and wide players who can cross balls (which we don't have).

Secondly, it's simply bizarre that any team would rigidly stick with any formation for every game, regardless of who they were playing. It's made it so much easier for teams to set up against us, right from going up to Old Trafford having lost before the coach has even left London to watching us toil away with 1 up front against shit teams like Blackburn and Bradford.

Speaking in very broad terms we seem unable to defend and attack simultaneously. Fulham and QPR games were bizarre - after being in 'attack' mode for a while in both we just flicked the switch and decided to go to 'defend' mode. At the start of the season we were defending very well but consequently coming up short up front. Watch any half-decent team and they'll at least pose a threat on the counter-attack when they're under the kosh. Yes we're short of a few quality players but we have good enough players to do both.

Discussing the system is inevitably going to become conflated with who we need to sign (A FUCKING STRIKER OR TWO!!!), but looking at our players I think we have to press as a team high up the pitch and move the ball at pace in possession. Tired of watching us give shit players too much space and pass the ball sideways until the opposition manage to get their shape back in possession.

[Brady's left peg]

Of all the things that drive me mad about this Arsenal team our formation is number 1. I don't know how we're able to play the same set-up every game without fail and admit we don't change tactics based on opposition without criticism when other coaches' tactical decisions are analysed in infinite detail on MOTD etc.

Firstly, let's be fair, it doesn't really work for us. It relies on a world-class complete forward (which we don't have), arguably a very good holding midfielder who allows the creative players in front more freedom (which we don't have), central midfielders who constantly get into the box to provide another target from crosses so that we aren't aiming for one attacker amongst 4 defenders (which we don't have) and wide players who can cross balls (which we don't have).

Secondly, it's simply bizarre that any team would rigidly stick with any formation for every game, regardless of who they were playing. It's made it so much easier for teams to set up against us, right from going up to Old Trafford having lost before the coach has even left London to watching us toil away with 1 up front against shit teams like Blackburn and Bradford.

Speaking in very broad terms we seem unable to defend and attack simultaneously. Fulham and QPR games were bizarre - after being in 'attack' mode for a while in both we just flicked the switch and decided to go to 'defend' mode. At the start of the season we were defending very well but consequently coming up short up front. Watch any half-decent team and they'll at least pose a threat on the counter-attack when they're under the kosh. Yes we're short of a few quality players but we have good enough players to do both.

Discussing the system is inevitably going to become conflated with who we need to sign (A FUCKING STRIKER OR TWO!!!), but looking at our players I think we have to press as a team high up the pitch and move the ball at pace in possession. Tired of watching us give shit players too much space and pass the ball sideways until the opposition manage to get their shape back in possession.

To have a successful formation you need players that can play to that formation and who feel happy doing so. Wenger has always forced square pegs in round holes and it has paid off in the past, but you are then relying on the players being able to adapt to the role they are being asked to play.
The current squad is lacking in adaptable players so even if the manager wanted to change the formation especially during the game, it would prove difficult to do so. The way we play currently requires the full backs to rampage forward to provide the width, unfortunately they can rarely do this as our wingers/wide forwards fail to cover their forward runs hence leaving us open to a counter attack down the flanks.
As you quite rightly point out NB our formation also requires a strong holding midfielder, but a holding midfielder that can pass the ball and I don't mean 6yds sideways! Ideally I would like us to sign a top class DM but if all else fails and if Wenger is determined to force players to play out of their natural position, I would like to see Jack Wilshere given that role he can tackle. can carry the ball should he need to and has an eye for a pass.
With regard to the high line and pressing game..... we can already do this but we only seem to do it for 30 minutes at most.
The transition between defence and attack is poor and has been for some time now, some of this is down to Wenger's insistence on playing tippy-tappy football in little triangles. Yes sometimes it works but when your trying to play 3 yd passes in little triangles when being pressured by the opposition, it very often does not and all we do is concede possession. I have seen us playing in little triangles just inside our own half so many times this season when a diagonal ball would of released one of the wide players. Having 60% of the possession when in your own half isn't a lot of good when you need a goal.
One last point you will not find me saying anything thing positive about camel foot Giroud but in his defence the manager has not really played to his strengths. I don't think it is any surprise that most of his goals have been in games that podolski started, he needs someone to work with, to feed off his knockdowns and lay offs. Giroud cannot create those chances himself he needs help, and most of the time that help is still slowly jogging forward without a care in the world!

[QuartzGooner]

Firstly, let's be fair, it doesn't really work for us. It relies on a world-class complete forward (which we don't have), arguably a very good holding midfielder who allows the creative players in front more freedom (which we don't have), central midfielders who constantly get into the box to provide another target from crosses so that we aren't aiming for one attacker amongst 4 defenders (which we don't have) and wide players who can cross balls (which we don't have).

I think you sum it up well here.

I think for me the main thing is regardless of formation we are not dynamic enough.
Where are the fast strong confident runs of a decade ago?

We rely too much on a slow build up, and sideways passes, which enables us to have great possession statistics, but does not create enough goals.

As Brady has said, I think Wilshere can be that midfielder that holds, passes, tackles and does a bit of everything to a good standard.
As he has also said, I would like to see him lay alongside a new signing.

[Brady's left peg]

Secondly, it's simply bizarre that any team would rigidly stick with any formation for every game, regardless of who they were playing. It's made it so much easier for teams to set up against us, right from going up to Old Trafford having lost before the coach has even left London to watching us toil away with 1 up front against shit teams like Blackburn and Bradford.

This is a real bone of contention for me.......... Against Fulham after Sidwell's red card we should of dominated in the final third, but we didn't we dominated in the middle which is exactly where Fulham wanted us. You would of thought after a fruitless half hour we would of changed to a four, four, two and got more bodies in the box. No not us we just kept trying the same old thing over and over again, in fact we actually got deeper and allowed Fulham back into the game.
Our total lack of not only a plan B but a failure to have differing nuances with our normal formation make us too predictable and very easy to defend against even lower league clubs have us worked out now!

[northbank123]

I think part of the reason that we were looking so defensively solid but attackingly abject early season was because our wingers were being forced to play essentially as wing-backs. Now I'm a big fan of wingers tracking back and none of ours are anywhere near good enough to justify giving them more freedom without expecting them to put their shift in defensively, and too many times in the past our full-backs have also been given right roastings and targeted by teams who know that if they get in down the sides we're piss-poor at defending balls into the box. But surely there must be a better way of protecting the flanks than completely constricting 2 of your 3 most attacking players?

Looking at our squad we do have a complete imbalance with a plethora of decent-to-great midfielders, and one/two average strikers. But that is because we buy players to fit into our system (although you wouldn't guess it sometimes). Signings players that will slot into your existing set-up and strengthen it obviously isn't a bad thing in itself, but when that system lacks probably 4 players from really working surely Wenger has to make the call to knock it on the head?

[Arsenal Till I Die]

In my opinion, I think we should play 4-1-2-1-2.

Having a holding man stuck in front of the back four while having two CM's one box-to box while the other sitting deep covering. An attacking mid right behind the strikers should provide vreative link up, allowing the strikers to make runs as well as link up plyas to and from the midfield men.

----------------NEW KEEPER---------------
JENKO-------KOS-------MERT-------MONREAL
---------------- NEW DM-----------------------
--------- JACK-----ARTETA/NEW CM-----------
-------------------SANTI-------------------
------ PODOLSKI-----JOVETIC (? )------------

[GranadaJoe]

I have grown to hate the formation we play. I know it's popular with many teams because it allows numbers in midfield, but for it to work properly it needs top quality wide men and they are in very short supply and we certainly don't have any. It's been a problem for most managers and, with the possible exception of Monkey Boy, no wide players in the PL have put in consistently good performances. Maybe it's an impossible position to play well (Monkey Boy has very few defensive duties this season).
I too would go for a diamond in midfield. In Jack, Santi, Rosicky, Arteta etc we have the players.

[SteveO 35]

In my opinion, I think we should play 4-1-2-1-2.

Having a holding man stuck in front of the back four while having two CM's one box-to box while the other sitting deep covering. An attacking mid right behind the strikers should provide vreative link up, allowing the strikers to make runs as well as link up plyas to and from the midfield men.

----------------NEW KEEPER---------------
JENKO-------KOS-------MERT-------MONREAL
---------------- NEW DM-----------------------
--------- JACK-----ARTETA/NEW CM-----------
-------------------SANTI-------------------
------ PODOLSKI-----JOVETIC (? )------------

If you put Song's name against "new DM" and Remy instead of Jovetic, you've probably got Lord Cockface's dream team of 2013/14

[GranadaJoe]

I was going to start another thread on the dying art of dribbling, but it might tie in with this one.

When I was playing I enjoyed dribbling past opponents more than scoring. As a fan, seeing a winger skin his FB is one of the most exciting things on a football field, but it appears to have been banned at Arsenal (and many other clubs).

When a winger e.g. Theo gets the ball one-on-one out wide, the FB should be kaking his pants, but it seems that all he has to do is amble over in Theo's (or Pod's) direction to see Theo turn back, lay the ball back to Sagna who passes it infield or back to a CB. What is the fucking point? It constantly results in us playing backwards and forwards in front of an organised back four (see Manure game), who don't have to move more than a yard at a time to keep their shape.

For a club with TH14, Pires, Overmars etc in their past, this current lack of basic attacking skills is a disgrace.
And fucking boring!

[LDB]

Imo it's nothing or very little to do with formation. Our problem is that we don't move the ball fast enough from defence to attack. Our front 3 are very often interchanging positions just like in the Invincibles era but the difference is not numbers on a tactics board, it is the philosophy of telling our midfielders not to pick a quick forward pass but to keep possession and try to work openings (oh and a slight downgrade in player quality ). The problem is not a lack of players in forward positions.

Where I would agree however is that the "1's" at the top of our formation are simply not up to scratch but the idea that the way forward is some "big man - little man" combo where we lump it to giroud for knock downs to gervinho/podolski is wrong. The last big team to try this in any meaningful way was when dogleash signed carroll and suarez. It didn't work and the big man was humped out on loan to west ham.

[tel]

I agree with the comments re 4-3-3, it doesn't work for us against the best teams and neither do the players who play in it. The likes of Messi, Ronaldo, RVP, Falcao, Suarez can do it but none of our idiots can. It's lazy management to copy Barca but when you finish 3rd/4th every year with money rolling in there's no incentive to improve