As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
goonerk wrote:Yes. Personally I think the performances of them as a pairing has been over-hyped. Look at the games during the run in - these were teams we probably would have kept clean sheets against even if we had Squil at the back!
I'm not denying that we appeared more solid, but sadly I believe that's all it was. We relied heavily on a number of last ditch Kos challenges, whilst Chesney was called upon a number of times to save the day. I'm not suggesting that this is proof of a weak partnership, only that I think it's wrong to suggest we're suddenly unpenetrable with them at the back.
Personally I still think Mert is a liability. Clearly he has a number of attributes linked to positioning and organisation, but he gets caught out far too often for me. Kos too is by no means perfect. He often struggles physically and his distribution is often wayward.
My point with all of this is that Thomas Vemaelen isn't finished. He offers something unique to our team in terms of sheer determination and that's certainly something I'd like to see more of in our team.
Again, I agree with some of the points you've made broadly speaking. I agree that despite the clean sheets we had a lot of fortune and I don't think our goals conceded column is necessarily representative of how good we are defensively in comparison to other teams. I also have to say that Mertesacker and Koscielny are far from without faults, and there are guaranteed to be nervy moments with them.
But trying to take a step back and not get wrapped up with in-depth analysis of our defence I think I'd probably sum up my position on Vermaelen like this.
Do I think he is good enough to be a back-up centre-half and still has a role in the squad? Yes.
Do I envisage him being a mainstay of a reliable and consistent defence for a team looking to push on and challenge for the title? Not really.
TV had a fantastic 2011/12 season but most of his contributions that season were made scoring important goals and driving forward with the ball from the back. Whilst I admire his swash-buckling attacking style I think its obvious Mertesacker and Koscielny are both much better defensively both individually and as a pairing.
However football is a squad game full of opportunities - TV will get his and he must take it when he does.
hugh jardon wrote:TV had a fantastic 2011/12 season but most of his contributions that season were made scoring important goals and driving forward with the ball from the back. Whilst I admire his swash-buckling attacking style I think its obvious Mertesacker and Koscielny are both much better defensively both individually and as a pairing.
However football is a squad game full of opportunities - TV will get his and he must take it when he does.
Indeed, Hugh, it was for his forward ventures that he stood out, getting often decicive goals in important matches that got as out of trouble. He would take risks, bombing forward and during that spell it came good, we got away with it, while in later matches (not only TV but other defenders) got caught out of position and we conceded poor goals due to lack of numbers / proper cover.
goonerk wrote:but if we were playing in the Champions League final tomorrow night, Vemaelen would be the first name on my team sheet.
The guy is class and will prove it.
But we ain't gonna be playing in the Champions League final tomorrow night, or the next 1500 nights. Mainly because we have the likes of Vermaelen in the team. Yes he's good, but he's not great. Lots of the team are good but not one of them is great.
So, we'll be nearly men with nearly great players for a long time to come.
Our hopes of challenging for the very biggest prizes are way over the horizon, give me Vermaelen and his heart over Koscielney and his loose lips every time nowadays. There is no point saying we can do better than Vermaelen in the transfer market anymore because we absolutely won't do the necessary to make it happen.
no. 1 is Perry Groves.... wrote:i think he will come good again.
watched a rerun of liverpool away this season not long ago and he put himself on the line a few times to stop the mickey's scoring.
he can also cover lb which historically we always suffer with injuries.
I don't like to hammer him too much for his performances at LB because at the end of the day he is playing out of position and basically taking flak for the manager's shortcomings.
But he cannot cover effectively at left-back. He can play there and do his best but he is a huge weak link. Bayern knew that, hence why at the Emirates they were flooding our left flank because they knew Vermaelen wouldn't cope, and they snatched two early goals there and killed the tie in 30 minutes. Obviously not solely his fault but he is a huge weakness there.
It's by no means a reason to get rid of him because not many CBs can cover full-back and it's simply not his job. But equally him being able to put in a scratchy and dubious performance there isn't reason to keep him.
