THE WENGER THREAD

[augie]

Wenker's a c.unt and a waste of O2

[Clash]

Wenger, April 2009:

‘’I am a prisoner of my own policy’’

That quote alone should have ended any debate about whether he was being denied funds and was having is his hands tied etc. But oh no, those who defend him still continued to blame the board.

The full quote (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 78,00.html) is part of his laughable defence of the shambolic summer of 2008 and part of his infamous ‘’killing Denilson’’ line. In full:

"I remained faithful to my policy when everyone told me I was heading straight for a brick wall. People reproach me for not having bought Gareth Barry or Xavi Alonso," ‘’And we lost Hleb, Flamini and Rosicky. There was a midfield for me to rebuild. Should I have anticipated Flamini's departure? I couldn't because I really didn't think he was going to leave.

"I think I have been tough because I have continued to believe in this team when nobody else did.

"But I am a prisoner of my own policy. Buying Barry or Alonso is killing Alexandre Song, Abou Diaby and Denilson. We have been able to integrate them''.

''Previously, if I had taken off Fabregas to play Song, people would have said: 'He's mad!' Somewhere along the line, these injuries have been a bad thing for a good thing. We believe in our qualities and our strengths. I believe this team has mentally grown this season. We were under a lot of negative pressure but we always came out and just kept going."



Excruciating stuff.

Oh .. and although he didn’t mention it above, he also agreed to sell Gilberto during the very same summer that Flamini took him by surprise by leaving. In truth only an idiot would be surprised by what Flamini did as he had behaved exactly the same way to become an Arsenal player in the first place.

Why am I bringing this crap up now ? I have no idea. I am just in a permanent state of disbelief that this CRETIN is still our manager more than 4 years after he had clearly lost the plot. And I am almost paralysed with fear that he is close to extending his stay!

It does however explain why Wenger still hasn’t splashed out properly again this summer. He is a prisoner of his own policy remember.

[northbank123]

So many indicators of where things have gone wrong for him in that article.

Not least the faith he puts in players' unwavering loyalty to him above money, success and their careers - surely in the second half of the season when Flamini continued to demand high wages that we were never going to pay and refused to sign a contract he must have realised he was going to piss off on a free?

[highburyJD]

The Flamini/Gilberto/Diarra debacle was a mistake
Flamster running down his contract was unavoidable - we didn't want him
until he was good, accepted £3M from Brum that summer.
He stayed believing he could get better wages on a bosman.
Hleb situation also unavoidable, the Webster situation meant he could buy out of his long term contract.
Wenger believed both players would stay because they'd be stupid to leave,
he misread the situation. Their agents NEEDED them to move.

Locking in Denilson, Bendtner, Diaby, Djourou and Song on long term deals
was a typical old general: fighting the last war.
Trying to learn from the contractual errors that broke up the previous team.
Leaving us stuck with potential.

The purchases of Mertesacker and Arteta are responses to that.

This is a process, there are many errors but there are changes
and attempt to learn, progress.
Wouldn't characterise it as a stuck in his ways manager,
dont think Wenger is a slave to '09 principals
He can make a whole new set of mistakes...

[northbank123]

Might have been at attempt to learn but given where we are now - still begging for signings to be made so that we're not 10 points off the top two or three come January - it's not really happening. Whilst there may have been some improvements (e.g. defensively) last season reality is we're getting further away from the top teams (as shown by the gap between us an league winners and pitiful cup performances last few seasons), because Wenger is still stuck in 2002-04 whilst all the other clubs adapt each season.

His achievements certainly bought him a few barren years to try and turn things round - but for me enough is enough. Although the decline can be traced back to the conclusion of the 07/08 season (some will undoubtedly pinpoint earlier incidents), I and most others stuck by him through his fruitless policy experiments for a fair while after. I don't think you can deny that most gave him a period of good grace that he earned with his success but that's expired.

The last two seasons have just been completely unacceptable. Our worst European defeat for fuck knows how long against an average Milan side, conceding EIGHT goals at Old Trafford, selling our captain and star player undervalue to Barca one season and then selling our captain and best player to United the next, effectively out of the CL tie in 15 minutes against an admittedly strong Bayern team, cup defeats at a League Two side and against a struggling Championship side at home, waiting til we're a goal or two behind in basically every big game to start playing. It's just not good enough and whilst Wenger may do his best to convey disappointment his sense of smug satisfaction that we've scraped 4th ahead of the scum again is impossible to miss.

Nobody is saying that we're on a level playing field with Citeh and Chelsea in terms of being able to throw ridiculous money around every window but equally that's no excuse for his abject failures in transfer policy, wage policy, squad management and tactics. Whilst a new manager wouldn't guarantee success at least he'd have a go.

[foxinthebox2001]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pau ... 03581.html
Some good points from Paul Parker.
"I'm not convinced that Arsene Wenger even wants to sign any of these big-name players. The top players have their own personalities and if you are at the summit of the game it is natural that you are going to have an element of arrogance about you.

Wenger does not want to deal with this type of player: he is a control freak who wants players that will do as they are told and won't talk back to him. The Higuains, Rooneys and Suarezs of this world will give their opinion and want to have their say in certain situations."

[SteveO 35]

why we need a £25m+ man up top.....to turn the midfield dominant spells that we have into the end product required.

pretty much all of the World's best strikers have been bought for less
OTOH Sheva/Torres - Chelski, Greedybarndoor - Citeh, Carroll - Liverpool were all £25+

we need investment, we need new players, they need to make an instant impact.
True value/quality will be determined on the pitch, not in negotiations.

Not strictly true though is it?

How about Ronaldo for £80m, Aguero for £32m, and Suarez for £27m. I'd say all three of them have had a pretty devastating impact. Shevchenko was bought way too late by Chelsea - in his prime at AC Milan he was one of the best in the business. Carroll was completely overrated and overpriced at £35m granted and Newcastle milked that deal for every penny it was worth as Liverpool had £50m for Torres burning a hole in their pocket

Everyone thought Crespo was an outrageous signing for £35m when Lazio bought him and he scored 26 goals in his first season. Figo cost £37m and won the League and CL with Madrid in his first 2 years

You can argue the case both ways but in my opinion as things currently stand we won't get a sub £25m signing that will have that devastating impact

[TeeCee]

Cesc is 'considering his future' supposedly. Just weighing up whether he wants to earn around 120k a week, win trophies and play regularly..............for Man United obviously!!

[rodders999]

If it was Cesc's lifelong dream to return to Barca why the fuck would he end up pissing off after just 2 seasons? If this transfer happens my head will explode.

[Dan_85]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pau ... 03581.html
Some good points from Paul Parker.
"I'm not convinced that Arsene Wenger even wants to sign any of these big-name players. The top players have their own personalities and if you are at the summit of the game it is natural that you are going to have an element of arrogance about you.

Wenger does not want to deal with this type of player: he is a control freak who wants players that will do as they are told and won't talk back to him. The Higuains, Rooneys and Suarezs of this world will give their opinion and want to have their say in certain situations."

Spot on. Wenger loves to buy docile, fresh faced unknown imports, glad for their chance in the glitzy world of the Premier League who'll do exactly what he says. It makes me wanna slit my wrists, I'm so sick of this clown.

Good to see someone pulling it up in the media though.

[TeeCee]

Interesting piece in the Daily Fail......


Wenger said in August 2010: 'The ambition is there, we are hungry for success. We know people want more from us and we are ready to give more. I believe in this team.' The Gunners won nothing and finished 12 points behind champions Manchester United in fourth place.
The following summer – 2011 - Wenger said Arsenal came 'close,' were 'unlucky,' and also said he 'will pay £30million, even £40m, if I find the right players.'
He sold Fabregas, Nasri and Song. He signed Gervinho.
Players like Javier Pastore, Manuel Neuer, Radamel Falcao, Sergio Aguero, and the man Arsenal definitely could have signed, Juan Mata, all made moves that summer.
Presumably Wenger didn’t think any of these were 'the right players.'
August 2012 and Wenger sold Robin van Persie, failed to score in the first two games and concluded: 'There is something missing.' I can see why he’s known as the professor.
Wenger then said: 'We always have potential to surprise you.' In the end there was no surprise – Wenger didn’t spend big, Arsenal won nothing and scraped fourth place.
It’s the same old stuff and with every summer of rhetoric, every season without true success, Wenger’s star is fading, and he seemingly has no idea how to put the twinkle back in it.
Fabregas becoming a United player would surely be the end for Wenger. Arsenal having a buyback clause with the player puts them in pole position should he want to return to England. If Arsenal fail to exercise that, or if they try to exercise it but Fabregas only wants a move to United, then that is proof Wenger has lost his powers.
You see, all along Arsenal fans have become all misty-eyed when they talk about the bond between Fabregas and Wenger. The fans totally believe in this bond, and with good reason.
In 2010 Fabregas said this about Wenger: 'He is a second father to me, the most important person in my life after my father. He has been very supportive of me and has treated my like a son. I am part of his family.'
But a year later Fabregas left, just weeks after Wenger publicly stated he felt sure he wouldn’t lose his captain.
A son can leave a father and embark on his own journey, of course. But betrayal is something quite different.
It’s time for a father-son heart-to-heart. If they really are close, and Wenger still commands respect from Cesc, he will tell him joining Manchester United would mean he is betraying Arsenal Football Club, Arsenal fans and Wenger, his ‘second father.’

[highburyJD]

Barca just sold Cesc's competition, he's had two goal and trophy filled seasons at CampNou
he needs more to be considered a success. Why would be leave.

The polemic TC quotes is dishonest. Multiple seasons are conflated, selective info given.
Total BS.

[highburyJD]

dbl post. oops

[OneBardGooner]

When Cesc returned to Barca he knew he would not automatically be 1st team choice for the mid-field, which in some peoples minds begs the question why leave when he did knowing that?

he could have stayed another year or was he also totally disillusioned with Wenger & The Boards approach to running the club

had he stayed another year - with the fitness and form vanJudas found we could have done a whole lot better than 4th

If he does go to manure then I would place him in the same bracket as van Judas

[Swifty]

Hiddink?