Midfield Discussion - Sell Cazorla?

[GranadaJoe]

[I have made this a new thread out of a discussion that started on the Norwich thread, some strong opinions and interesting discussion about midfield so felt it deserved a thread of it's own - QUARTZGOONER]


I agree with the posters who suggest that the standard of the top teams has dropped. I'm enjoying being top of the league but I don't think we've looked particularly good (Napoli first half aside). Against WBA we looked in danger of conceding every time the ball came into the box.
We should be confident of beating Norwich, but I'm not. AW is trying to squeeze central midfielders into wide areas where they look neither happy nor effective. Hopefully Pod and Theo will be available, I don't want to see Santi put out wide any more than Jack or Rambo.

[g88ner]

I agree with the posters who suggest that the standard of the top teams has dropped. I'm enjoying being top of the league but I don't think we've looked particularly good (Napoli first half aside). Against WBA we looked in danger of conceding every time the ball came into the box.
We should be confident of beating Norwich, but I'm not. AW is trying to squeeze central midfielders into wide areas where they look neither happy nor effective. Hopefully Pod and Theo will be available, I don't want to see Santi put out wide any more than Jack or Rambo.

Why? - Cazorla is far more capable of playing on the left for us (especially as our system doesn't nail him to the touchline).

If Cazorla and Ozil are to play in the same side (which they clearly will) then one of them will surely be starting from a wide position and the other one behind the striker. My money's on Ozil playing centrally, but in reality they'll probably switch and move around anyway.

[Aaron86]

2-0 giroud brace

[DB10GOONER]

I agree with the posters who suggest that the standard of the top teams has dropped. I'm enjoying being top of the league but I don't think we've looked particularly good (Napoli first half aside). Against WBA we looked in danger of conceding every time the ball came into the box.
We should be confident of beating Norwich, but I'm not. AW is trying to squeeze central midfielders into wide areas where they look neither happy nor effective. Hopefully Pod and Theo will be available, I don't want to see Santi put out wide any more than Jack or Rambo.

Why? - Cazorla is far more capable of playing on the left for us (especially as our system doesn't nail him to the touchline).

If Cazorla and Ozil are to play in the same side (which they clearly will) then one of them will surely be starting from a wide position and the other one behind the striker. My money's on Ozil playing centrally, but in reality they'll probably switch and move around anyway.

They will switch of course, as is our "system", but I'd rather see Ozil out wide than Cazorla. Cazorla has struggled to have any impact out wide previously, whereas I think Ozil is that good he would deliver no matter what his primary position. Also if Rambo is out injured now or suffers a drop in form, then I'd play both Cazorla and Ozil through the middle with Flamoney or Arteta but not both DM's at the same time in the PL.

[augie]

No disgrace in this but cazorla isnt in ozil's league and for me you pick your best players in their best positions and fit everybody else around them - if you spend 40m+ on a player then you have to maximise what he brings to the table I would also have concerns about how being played out of position would affect ozil's mindset - this is a guy who has been under-appreciated at club level for the past few seasons (always subbed at madrid no matter how he was playing and getting shafted for the ape boy) so for me we have to absolutely convince him that he is THE man at AFC.
Have to be honest here and admit that for me cazorla is now expendable - class player with all the attributes you would want in a player but he still isnt in ozil's class and playing the two of them centrally just would not work. I know that some will argue that he can play wide but that too would greatly weaken the influence he would have on a game so he would rarely be on top form. If ozil is committed to us then I would sell cazorla in january and use that money to be one of the very very few top quality strikers out there - if we were willing to pay 40m for suarez then I would add another 15m from sale of cazorla and buy an elite striker

Back on point, I know that it might be a bit early for predictions (dont know who will return inj after internationals) but I will say that I reckon 3-1 home victory is most likely scoreline

[GranadaJoe]

I agree with the posters who suggest that the standard of the top teams has dropped. I'm enjoying being top of the league but I don't think we've looked particularly good (Napoli first half aside). Against WBA we looked in danger of conceding every time the ball came into the box.
We should be confident of beating Norwich, but I'm not. AW is trying to squeeze central midfielders into wide areas where they look neither happy nor effective. Hopefully Pod and Theo will be available, I don't want to see Santi put out wide any more than Jack or Rambo.

Why? - Cazorla is far more capable of playing on the left for us (especially as our system doesn't nail him to the touchline).

If Cazorla and Ozil are to play in the same side (which they clearly will) then one of them will surely be starting from a wide position and the other one behind the striker. My money's on Ozil playing centrally, but in reality they'll probably switch and move around anyway.

I'd seen Santi a bit in Spain before he joined us and I voiced my concerns when we were in negotiations with him that he was very inconsistent when played out wide. I think I've been proved right. He's a great player, but if put out wide will be forever drifting inside (like Jack and Rambo), narrowing our play. He not especially quick and isn't renowned for his tracking back.
AW could adjust his formation to try and accommodate some of the hundreds of central midfielders we've got, but I doubt he will. He'll put square pegs in round holes.
If we had proper wing-back type FBs who could go past their man and cross the ball the situation might not be so bad, but we've not, so we'll probably end up having no option but to try and pass our way through a packed midfield.
Neither Theo not Poldi are the perfect answer, but we would get a bit more balance in the side.

[franksav63]

I agree with the posters who suggest that the standard of the top teams has dropped. I'm enjoying being top of the league but I don't think we've looked particularly good (Napoli first half aside). Against WBA we looked in danger of conceding every time the ball came into the box.
We should be confident of beating Norwich, but I'm not. AW is trying to squeeze central midfielders into wide areas where they look neither happy nor effective. Hopefully Pod and Theo will be available, I don't want to see Santi put out wide any more than Jack or Rambo.

Why? - Cazorla is far more capable of playing on the left for us (especially as our system doesn't nail him to the touchline).

If Cazorla and Ozil are to play in the same side (which they clearly will) then one of them will surely be starting from a wide position and the other one behind the striker. My money's on Ozil playing centrally, but in reality they'll probably switch and move around anyway.

I'd seen Santi a bit in Spain before he joined us and I voiced my concerns when we were in negotiations with him that he was very inconsistent when played out wide. I think I've been proved right. He's a great player, but if put out wide will be forever drifting inside (like Jack and Rambo), narrowing our play. He not especially quick and isn't renowned for his tracking back.
AW could adjust his formation to try and accommodate some of the hundreds of central midfielders we've got, but I doubt he will. He'll put square pegs in round holes.
If we had proper wing-back type FBs who could go past their man and cross the ball the situation might not be so bad, but we've not, so we'll probably end up having no option but to try and pass our way through a packed midfield.
Neither Theo not Poldi are the perfect answer, but we would get a bit more balance in the side.

Perhaps we should try and sign this guy.... he's pulling up trees apparently:-

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3276/ser ... becoming-a

[beck]

I agree with the posters who suggest that the standard of the top teams has dropped. I'm enjoying being top of the league but I don't think we've looked particularly good (Napoli first half aside). Against WBA we looked in danger of conceding every time the ball came into the box.
We should be confident of beating Norwich, but I'm not. AW is trying to squeeze central midfielders into wide areas where they look neither happy nor effective. Hopefully Pod and Theo will be available, I don't want to see Santi put out wide any more than Jack or Rambo.

Why? - Cazorla is far more capable of playing on the left for us (especially as our system doesn't nail him to the touchline).

If Cazorla and Ozil are to play in the same side (which they clearly will) then one of them will surely be starting from a wide position and the other one behind the striker. My money's on Ozil playing centrally, but in reality they'll probably switch and move around anyway.

I'd seen Santi a bit in Spain before he joined us and I voiced my concerns when we were in negotiations with him that he was very inconsistent when played out wide. I think I've been proved right. He's a great player, but if put out wide will be forever drifting inside (like Jack and Rambo), narrowing our play. He not especially quick and isn't renowned for his tracking back.
AW could adjust his formation to try and accommodate some of the hundreds of central midfielders we've got, but I doubt he will. He'll put square pegs in round holes.
If we had proper wing-back type FBs who could go past their man and cross the ball the situation might not be so bad, but we've not, so we'll probably end up having no option but to try and pass our way through a packed midfield.
Neither Theo not Poldi are the perfect answer, but we would get a bit more balance in the side.

we have lost 2 games that cazorla has played on the left and in one of them he set up walcotts goal at chelsea
he got the winner at sunderland
both goals v aston villa
set up koscielnys goal in munich
scored and set up gervinhos goal v reading
set up all 4 goals v wigan
for podolski 2
walcott and ramsey
we have won 14 and drawn 2 of the others

[Supagoon]

No disgrace in this but cazorla isnt in ozil's league and for me you pick your best players in their best positions and fit everybody else around them - if you spend 40m+ on a player then you have to maximise what he brings to the table I would also have concerns about how being played out of position would affect ozil's mindset - this is a guy who has been under-appreciated at club level for the past few seasons (always subbed at madrid no matter how he was playing and getting shafted for the ape boy) so for me we have to absolutely convince him that he is THE man at AFC.
Have to be honest here and admit that for me cazorla is now expendable - class player with all the attributes you would want in a player but he still isnt in ozil's class and playing the two of them centrally just would not work. I know that some will argue that he can play wide but that too would greatly weaken the influence he would have on a game so he would rarely be on top form. If ozil is committed to us then I would sell cazorla in january and use that money to be one of the very very few top quality strikers out there - if we were willing to pay 40m for suarez then I would add another 15m from sale of cazorla and buy an elite striker

Back on point, I know that it might be a bit early for predictions (dont know who will return inj after internationals) but I will say that I reckon 3-1 home victory is most likely scoreline

dunno about that one. Since RVP left, carzola was our only world class player. He is the same league as Mata, who you could say are a league below the likes of Cesc.

I'm not really going to say Ozil is as good as Cesc yet, in fact not a chance, he is in the same league as Mata and Carzola, but arguably better than him.

I think Ramsey has to be central. I don't think he offers enough out wide and he is involved in games that Ozil is. So either Ozil or Carzola wide.

For me Flamini and Ramsey must be our CMs.

[dPmunky]

is there any reason that we are not playing the 4-4-2!? someone help, ive never worked a day in football and dont know anything.

norwich SHOULD be an easy 3 points. but if we do it "the arsene-al way" we'll be level in the 84th minute and be lucky to knick a late winner.

[LDB]

is there any reason that we are not playing the 4-4-2!? someone help, ive never worked a day in football and dont know anything.

norwich SHOULD be an easy 3 points. but if we do it "the arsene-al way" we'll be level in the 84th minute and be lucky to knick a late winner.

Because it is outdated, nobody else plays it and the few teams that do get absolutely dicked in the middle of the park and end up chasing shadows for 80% of the game. The only remaining role for 4-4-2 in the modern game is a last-ditch chasing-the-game tactic, not as a system to base your team around.

[northbank123]

is there any reason that we are not playing the 4-4-2!? someone help, ive never worked a day in football and dont know anything.

norwich SHOULD be an easy 3 points. but if we do it "the arsene-al way" we'll be level in the 84th minute and be lucky to knick a late winner.

Because it is outdated, nobody else plays it and the few teams that do get absolutely dicked in the middle of the park and end up chasing shadows for 80% of the game. The only remaining role for 4-4-2 in the modern game is a last-ditch chasing-the-game tactic, not as a system to base your team around.

I would like to see us playing 4-4-2 at times. I don't mean we have to play in 80s fashion, just actually play with two strikers and keep a normal back four. It was good enough for the Invincibles and they would piss all over any of the teams in this league.

[OneBardGooner]

I agree with the posters who suggest that the standard of the top teams has dropped. I'm enjoying being top of the league but I don't think we've looked particularly good (Napoli first half aside). Against WBA we looked in danger of conceding every time the ball came into the box.
We should be confident of beating Norwich, but I'm not. AW is trying to squeeze central midfielders into wide areas where they look neither happy nor effective. Hopefully Pod and Theo will be available, I don't want to see Santi put out wide any more than Jack or Rambo.

Why? - Cazorla is far more capable of playing on the left for us (especially as our system doesn't nail him to the touchline).

If Cazorla and Ozil are to play in the same side (which they clearly will) then one of them will surely be starting from a wide position and the other one behind the striker. My money's on Ozil playing centrally, but in reality they'll probably switch and move around anyway.

I'd seen Santi a bit in Spain before he joined us and I voiced my concerns when we were in negotiations with him that he was very inconsistent when played out wide. I think I've been proved right. He's a great player, but if put out wide will be forever drifting inside (like Jack and Rambo), narrowing our play. He not especially quick and isn't renowned for his tracking back.
AW could adjust his formation to try and accommodate some of the hundreds of central midfielders we've got, but I doubt he will. He'll put square pegs in round holes.
If we had proper wing-back type FBs who could go past their man and cross the ball the situation might not be so bad, but we've not, so we'll probably end up having no option but to try and pass our way through a packed midfield.
Neither Theo not Poldi are the perfect answer, but we would get a bit more balance in the side.

Perhaps we should try and sign this guy.... he's pulling up trees apparently:-

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3276/ser ... becoming-a

Uhmmm no frank he's falling over like a tree is what it actually translates to !

[OneBardGooner]

Give Gnabry a run - he's straining at the leash to get on and score (again!).

[DB10GOONER]

3-1 to The Arsenal.