Jack Wilshere

[SteveO 35]

Jacks a racist this shit thread should of been closed after the first post.

Don't worry - ten decent games like Ramsey and he'll be everyone's hero again.

Nice to see Wenger turning him into our latest winger now that he's tried and failed with Bendtner, Diaby and Podolski

He's not trying to turn him into a winger... we're decimated in wide areas!

Gnabry, Rosicky still fit. Walcott, Ox to return. Hardly - its one of the few areas where we've got options

That's ridiculous. How can you not think we've been decimated in wide areas? where have you been the last month?

Has Wilshere been chosen over Theo out wide? you sure mate?

Rosicky as well... really? the guy was out with a hamstring and is being nursed back.

Ox?? he's been out for weeks! as has Podolski and Cazorla.

Wilshere has only played their a handful of times this season as others have been out. I think you're making this a bigger issue than it really is (perhaps trying too hard to look for negatives?)

Don't be daft and drop all that condescending shite about "where have you been"?

Wenger has form for sticking a number of players out wide which almost always sets their careers back a year or two. I'm aware of the injuries which is why I said "Walcott and Ox to come back". We have tons of wide options. Gnabry who actually had his first decent game at Swansea and the confidence from scoring could have played. Gibbs and Monreal are more than comfortable of doubling up on the left and it actually looks a very good option when they do

Wilshere is never ever going to be a wide player, and you certainly don't choose the period where he's most struggling for form to dump him out there.

[g88ner]

Don't worry - ten decent games like Ramsey and he'll be everyone's hero again.

Nice to see Wenger turning him into our latest winger now that he's tried and failed with Bendtner, Diaby and Podolski

He's not trying to turn him into a winger... we're decimated in wide areas!

Gnabry, Rosicky still fit. Walcott, Ox to return. Hardly - its one of the few areas where we've got options

That's ridiculous. How can you not think we've been decimated in wide areas? where have you been the last month?

Has Wilshere been chosen over Theo out wide? you sure mate?

Rosicky as well... really? the guy was out with a hamstring and is being nursed back.

Ox?? he's been out for weeks! as has Podolski and Cazorla.

Wilshere has only played their a handful of times this season as others have been out. I think you're making this a bigger issue than it really is (perhaps trying too hard to look for negatives?)

Don't be daft and drop all that condescending shite about "where have you been"?

Wenger has form for sticking a number of players out wide which almost always sets their careers back a year or two. I'm aware of the injuries which is why I said "Walcott and Ox to come back". We have tons of wide options. Gnabry who actually had his first decent game at Swansea and the confidence from scoring could have played. Gibbs and Monreal are more than comfortable of doubling up on the left and it actually looks a very good option when they do

Wilshere is never ever going to be a wide player, and you certainly don't choose the period where he's most struggling for form to dump him out there.

I say we've been decimated by injuries in wide areas. You say hardly.

I say Jack played on the left out of necessity because of those injuries. You disagree and say Wenger's trying to turn him into a winger.

If we disagree on that then we're at an impasse.

I think your bonkers though. Losing Theo, Podolski, Cazorla, Rosicky and Chamberlain (our FIVE first choice wide players?) AT THE SAME TIME is about as decimated as it gets, yet you're happy to ignore that and concentrate on bashing Wenger for trying to turn Wilshere into a winger?

We're down to the bare bones and none are the options are desirable - Gnabry has no experience, Wilshere and Ramsey are central players, and Monreal is a fullback. Wenger went with Ramsey and Wilshere in a bid to keep things tight and hope their quality would come through (I'm sure he also believes Jack needs game time to improve)

It partly worked because we won our games (and drew at WBA) but clearly we're crying out for the others to return and hopefully Cazorla and Rosicky now have.

[SteveO 35]

I'm not ignoring the fact that we've got injuries there, but it is probably the only area of the field where we can cope with having so many at once

Gnabry played well in his previous two games and scored at Swansea. He might be light on experience but surely when he'd just got some and scored a goal he would have been a better option than an out of form Wilshere? Wilshere scored but was mostly woeful especially in the first half. On the left side Monreal and Gibbs are international class players and Gibbs is not really an old school defender and more than decent enough to play left midfield

Wilshere is as out of form as he's ever been since he starting playing for the first team. I fail to see how sticking him in a position he's even less comfortable with can help him

[afcforever]

I'm not ignoring the fact that we've got injuries there, but it is probably the only area of the field where we can cope with having so many at once

Gnabry played well in his previous two games and scored at Swansea. He might be light on experience but surely when he'd just got some and scored a goal he would have been a better option than an out of form Wilshere? Wilshere scored but was mostly woeful especially in the first half. On the left side Monreal and Gibbs are international class players and Gibbs is not really an old school defender and more than decent enough to play left midfield

Wilshere is as out of form as he's ever been since he starting playing for the first team. I fail to see how sticking him in a position he's even less comfortable with can help him

I agree as much as I rate Jack, would rather see Gnabry play wide. Wenger does like to play players out of position as everyone knows.

[g88ner]

Gnabry played well in his previous two games and scored at Swansea. He might be light on experience but surely when he'd just got some and scored a goal he would have been a better option than an out of form Wilshere? Wilshere scored but was mostly woeful especially in the first half. On the left side Monreal and Gibbs are international class players and Gibbs is not really an old school defender and more than decent enough to play left midfield

Wilshere is as out of form as he's ever been since he starting playing for the first team. I fail to see how sticking him in a position he's even less comfortable with can help him

Gnabry did play quite well in those 2 games - but that was on the right of midfield, where presumably he's most comfortable, whereas Jack was being asked to fill in on the left of midfield.

Not saying Gnabry can't play on the left, but that's not where we've seen him play.

Anyway that's going off track a little. I'd probably prefer Gnabry on the wing as well, but that's not the debate.

What I'm questioning is that you think Wenger is trying to turn Wilshere into a winger because I really don't think he is. I believe he's been played wide left because of the injuries to Cazorla, Rosicky, Podolski and Ox (and lesser extend Theo, who plays on the right) and NOT because Wenger wants to turn Jack into a winger.

I don't recall Jack playing wide left that often in recent seasons, and I believe pretty much all his appearances have been centrally, so the evidence to support Wenger turning him into a winger doesn't appear to go back any further than the last month or so, which by coincidence (presumably) has coincided with us losing all our first choice left midfielders.

If over the next few months, Jack keeps Cazorla out the team on the left, then fair enough - you may have a point - but for now, the evidence I can see suggests Jack was simply filling in for injured players and his long term future remains in central midfield.

Anyway, no big deal. Time will tell which of us is correct.

[LDB]

Wilshere is as out of form as he's ever been since he starting playing for the first team. I fail to see how sticking him in a position he's even less comfortable with can help him

Didn't he used to play wide left for the youth teams? The other option is for him not to play at all, I fail to see how that's going to help him. As others have said it is not as if "wingers" in our team are asked to hug the touchline and take on the full back, more often then not when we're in possession he is essentially in Ozils position albeit a bit to the left of him.

What I don't understand is why he shifted Ramsey wide right to try and shoe-horn Arteta back into the team. Gnabry should have kept his place with Mikel on the bench. He's been a cracking signing for us but its not as if Arteta is so good that his spot in the first 11 is guaranteed.

[g88ner]

Wilshere is as out of form as he's ever been since he starting playing for the first team. I fail to see how sticking him in a position he's even less comfortable with can help him

Didn't he used to play wide left for the youth teams? The other option is for him not to play at all, I fail to see how that's going to help him. As others have said it is not as if "wingers" in our team are asked to hug the touchline and take on the full back, more often then not when we're in possession he is essentially in Ozils position albeit a bit to the left of him.

What I don't understand is why he shifted Ramsey wide right to try and shoe-horn Arteta back into the team. Gnabry should have kept his place with Mikel on the bench. He's been a cracking signing for us but its not as if Arteta is so good that his spot in the first 11 is guaranteed.

He probably was being cautious against Napoli and, in fairness, our performance against Napoli was probably our best game in months/years so he perhaps didn't want to change much for the WBA game other than out of necessity (i.e. Jack in for Rosicky)

[SteveO 35]

I've never gone along with the theory that you should keep playing someone through poor form. Look at Ramsey last season. Nobody could say the lad wasn't trying but it just wasn't working. The best thing that happened to him was a Summer break, out of the spotlight, concentrating on getting fit and getting rid of any lingering injuries.

I think being taken out of the team is EXACTLY what Wilshere needs and we now have a central midfield with enough options to allow him that rest. Leave the spotlight on Ramsey, Ozil and some of the others for a bit

Perhaps Wenger didn't start of intending to turn him into a winger but I see it starting to happen because I think he has Arteta / Flamini / Ramsey as the 'holders' and Ozil / Cazorla / Rosicky as the main central attacking midfielders. Wilshere will be rotated in the wider positions which for me makes no sense whatsoever as he does not have the attributes to play there regularly

[spendsum4uckingmoney]

My respect for Wilshere has gone up a bit. I too don't buy this 5 years crap. IMO you are only English if A) You speak fluent English. B) Have an English accent. C) Lived in England for atleast 4/5 years before you turn 10.

That being said I still think Jack needs to shut up and keep his head down.

[g88ner]

My respect for Wilshere has gone up a bit. I too don't buy this 5 years crap. IMO you are only English if A) You speak fluent English. B) Have an English accent. C) Lived in England for atleast 4/5 years before you turn 10.

That being said I still think Jack needs to shut up and keep his head down.

hmm... not sure accent is the best measure of nationality but fair enough

[Chippy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhtq1ObGHy8

[QuartzGooner]

IMO you are only English if

A) You speak fluent English.
B) Have an English accent.

That would have ruled out this lot then:

[QuartzGooner]

Just to add my tuppence worth:

Think Wenger is playing Wilshere "out of position" simply because we have a lot of injuries in midfield, and with most players who have been injured for a while, it takes a run of games to recover full match sharpness as opposed to general core fitness.

Gnabry has looked good in the last two games, but at 18 he has to be rationed or he will likely end up injured like Wilshere has been!

Wilshere performs best in deep central midfield.
We have Ramsey, Flamini, Wilshere, Arteta and Frimpong competing for the same two positions, possibly Oxlade-Chamberlain too.

Six into two might be a problem for some, but better this than having too few players.

[g88ner]

Just to add my tuppence worth:

Think Wenger is playing Wilshere "out of position" simply because we have a lot of injuries in midfield, and with most players who have been injured for a while, it takes a run of games to recover full match sharpness as opposed to general core fitness.

Gnabry has looked good in the last two games, but at 18 he has to be rationed or he will likely end up injured like Wilshere has been!

Wilshere performs best in deep central midfield.
We have Ramsey, Flamini, Wilshere, Arteta and Frimpong competing for the same two positions, possibly Oxlade-Chamberlain too.

Six into two might be a problem for some, but better this than having too few players.

Agree with this... apart from the Frimpong bit; don't think he comes into it at all.

[SteveO 35]

Just to add my tuppence worth:

Think Wenger is playing Wilshere "out of position" simply because we have a lot of injuries in midfield, and with most players who have been injured for a while, it takes a run of games to recover full match sharpness as opposed to general core fitness.

Gnabry has looked good in the last two games, but at 18 he has to be rationed or he will likely end up injured like Wilshere has been!

Wilshere performs best in deep central midfield.
We have Ramsey, Flamini, Wilshere, Arteta and Frimpong competing for the same two positions, possibly Oxlade-Chamberlain too.

Six into two might be a problem for some, but better this than having too few players.

Rationed after 2 games !!!!

The Self Harmer was happy to play Jack for 49 games at the same age. I would hardly say Gnabry's exertions in those last 2 games meant he needed a rest

Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole will not work - whether temporarily or permanently - and there is no need to do it anyway. Wenger is trying to accommodate Jack and not put his nose out of joint knowing full well that he is out of form and not a wide man in his wildest dreams

If he turns out to be a success out there I'll eat my words but I simply can't see it. He needs taking out of the side for a few games full stop