Number 5 wrote:I Hate Hleb wrote:
DUE TO HIS TEAM SELECTION TODAY ARSENE WENGER BETRAYED ALL OF US THAT HAD THE AUDACITY TO HOPE WE MIGHT JUST PULL THE IMPROBABLE OFF AND WIN THE TITLE.
IHH, weak man, he couldn't not and possibly hoped not to have won 3 games in 7 days with the limited resources at his disposale could he? It was either go for the league or the CL and as we stand today we're still in both yes?..
Not sure if the 'weak man' was in relation to the arguements I've made or a comment on my testicular fortitude. Either way, I can assure you that you are wrong on both counts!! However, I'm willing to let that slide for now.
Back to the crux of this debate. You claim we couldn't possibly go for both trophies and then say we are still in both. Which is it? And why not? I don't accept that we couldn't have picked a strong side for the league match and one for the Champions League game. Isn't one of the reasons we went out of the FA Cup so tamely the fact that he wanted to save players for the title and C.L. run ins? Even if Wenger wanted to rest a couple of players, did he really need to play Hoyte
and Traore, and a Cesc as a support striker? We were still in the league
before yesterday's match, where a win would have put us only 3 points behind United and with them to play both us and Chelsea. As it happens, we
are still in both, but todays dropped points by United shows
that nothing in sport is guaranteed and for me only emphasises just what a selection cock-up Wenger made yesterday.
Number 5 wrote:I Hate Hleb wrote:
THAT WENT OUT OF THE WINDOW TODAY AND THE PERSON TO BLAME IS WENGER FOR PICKING SUCH AN UNDER-STRENGTH SIDE. NO AMOUNT OF COMPLAINING ABOUT TIREDNESS, DODGY DECISIONS AND MISSED OPPOTUNITIES CAN COVER THAT UP
Come on meet him in the middle, there is 100% no way AW could have picked the same team 3 times in a row could he? Today's Liverpool team were fucking awful. Awful. And AW new it would be, that's why he sent out a lesser team, but we should have taken em apart surely? I've never been so embarrased for Kuyt and Crouch to score against my team, have you?..
I'm not saying he should have picked the same team for 3 successive games, only that he started yesterdays with a strong one (maybe give Ade and Cesc a rest, if he felt they needed it) to put pressure on United and Chelsea. And if Liverpool's team were so shit (and I agree they were there for the taking), it makes me wonder even more why he didn't start with a stronger side, get a little lead and then take a couple of the important players off.
Number 5 wrote:I Hate Hleb wrote:
HECK, WE WERE TRYING TO TAKE OUR LEAD FROM THE MANAGER, WHO MAINTAINED ALL ALONG THAT WE WERE STILL IN IT AND THAT THE TEAM WOULD BE GIVING IT THEIR ALL UNTIL THE END OF THE SEASON. YET WHAT DOES HE DO? PLAY OUR 3RD CHOICE RIGHT BACK; OUR RESERVE LEFT BACK (WHO HAS STRUGGLED ALL SEASON) - BOTH OF WHOM ARE JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH AT THE MOMENT; OUR FORMER DEFENSIVE LYNCH-PIN WHO HAS BEEN OFF THE PACE ALL SEASON AND IS PHYSICALLY PAST IT, AND OUR BEST MIDFIELD PASSER AS THE SECOND FORWARD!! THE FACT THAT HE HAD TO TAKE BOTH FULL-BACKS OFF SAYS IT ALL REALLY.
Not so Hlebby, really, yes the team would and will give their all of course, you were at the game weren't you? Berts played as our best man I thought, did you see something different? The team are spent, not from a lack of trying is it? They've been trying all year, busting guts. As my recent point says, no team can play the same XI 3 games in a row can they? Especially in the space of 9 days surely?..
Gilberto had a good second half but was totally anonimous during the first - except for when he was giving the ball away. I have never accused any of the players of not trying. Indeed, it is the one criticism that fans throw at players that really gets on my tits, because it's too easy to aim that one at them. Okay, I'll accept that some of the players are tired, but all that does is point the finger again firmly in Wenger's direction because he had an opportunity to add to the squad and he didn't. However, tired or not, that doesn't excuse playing both full backs; a midfield devoid of creativity and the one good passer in the side as a spare forward!! He even pushed Bendtner wide left after Ade came on, which made no sense whatsoever. Much as I love Wenger, a tactical genius he is not!!
Number 5 wrote:I Hate Hleb wrote:
I HAVE NEVER FELT SO DISAPPOINTED BEFORE A MATCH EVEN KICKED OFF, AND IT PROVED TO ME FINALLY THAT EITHER WENGER WAS BEING DISINGENUIOUS ABOUT US STILL TRYING TO WIN THE TITLE, WHEN IN REALITY HE IS THROWING ALL HIS EGGS INTO THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE BASKET. OR EVEN WORSE, HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES THOSE SELECTIONS WERE THE RIGHT ONES AND GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN THE GAME - IN WHICH CASE, I'D HAVE TO SERIOUSLY START QUESTIONING HIS JUDGEMENT AND HIS SANITY!!
Come on bro, he knew Benitez would do the same. He thought he could get away with weaker full backs as Liverpool do not attack down the flanks do they? He set up with Bert, Flams deep mid and Cesc to sweep up didn't he? Its not his fault it didn't all function perfectly, is it? That was the best tactical choice against a monster like Crouch surely? A man who wins most headers and if not gets a lot knocked down? Hardly gonig to kill us down the width, and where did their goal come? In the middle against our bset two CB's wasn't it?
As I explained above, the fact Liverpool were fielding a weak line-up was
even more reason to have played a stronger side for the start - especially if we still had ambitions to win the title, like Wenger claimed pre-match. A good victory might even have given us a pyschological advantage for Tuesday's fixture. As it is, Liverpool will be the team with that advantage, having avoided defeat with a very weak side. By the way, Cesc played as the extra forward - certainly in the first half - supporting Bendtner (ala Bergkamp), not as the midfielder 'sweeping up'.
Now the goal may have come through the middle, but we looked vulnerable in the full-back positions all match, especially in the second half, and this despite - as you said - Liverpool being 'weak on the flanks'. Had Liverpool showed a little more ambition and a touch better composure and finishing, then there's no doubt we would have lost yesterday's game. As for responsibility, it actually
is Wenger's fault if he tries something and it doesn't work. He's the manager, picks the team and formation, and therefore must ultimately take responsibility when it doesn't work.
Number 5 wrote:I Hate Hleb wrote:ARSENE - I'M SORRY TO SAY THAT I LOST JUST A LITTLE BIT OF TRUST IN YOU TODAY, DUE TO YOUR WORDS NOT BEING MATCHED BY YOUR ACTIONS. THE SAD THING IS, IF YOU START LOSING THE TRUST OF THE LIKES OF ME - WHO DESPITE NOT AGREEING WITH ALL YOUR DECISIONS, HAVE TRIED TO BE FULLY SUPPORTIVE - THEN YOU REALLY WILL BE IN TROUBLE SOON!!
Not true Hleb, he played Cesc, Toure, Gallas, Flamini the spine of the side not just this year but in the years to come, he
had to make changes and made them as best he could..
But that's a world away from being your strongest available team. If he really wanted to rest Clichy, why have him on the bench and then bring him on? Ditto with Ade (although with him being a forward, that one was more understandable). And why not start Eboue - nominally our reserve right back - in that position instead of Hoyte, our third choice right back? Or even Toure at R.B. and Senderos as C.H, if that is where you are planning to play him Tuesday.
Therefore I disagree that he made changes 'the best he could'. Wenger tried to get away with fielding an under-strength side against supposedly inferior opposition and it didn't work. I would understand it more if he said before-hand that we couldn't win the title so we were going all out for the Champions League. But he didn't and so the buck stops with him, I'm afraid.
I know where you're coming from Number 5, but I'm just so disappointed and frustrated that we let slip a chance to put pressure on the teams ahead of us in the league. We have seen in the past that one team's result can end up affecting anothers just by the additional pressure it heaps on. Although some people on here claim we blew the title against Birmingham, I don't agree because the fact is we had dropped 9 points subsequent to that result, and that was even before yesterday. Had we managed even 1 victory from the draws against Villa, Wigan and Boro, or got at least a point against Chelsea, then we would be within 3 points of United, and no-one would be saying we were out of the race for the title. The Boro result today emphasised that things aren't as straight-forward as they might seem, and it means we are still in with a very slight shout.
However, there is no getting away from the fact that due to the team selection yesterday, we missed a really good chance to put pressure on United. Unfortunately, it appears that Chelsea are now the team in the best position to take advantage of any slip up and not us.
Augie and Rebel,
It really has come to something when you guys are more sympathetic to Arsene and the players than I am!!
Just goes to show how much I really did feel let down by the team selection yesterday and particularly the way we played. Mind you, didn't both of you advocate fielding a weak side anyway? Not sure it counts as support then, does it?
As if my day wasn't bad enough, my computer monitor broke down just after I had made my post yesterday afternoon, and I've only just managed to get a replacement. Proof positive to how steamed I must have been with the team!!
p.s. Number 5,
This team would beat the 71, 98 and 2002 teams? Really?
The current mob would not have a hope in hell against that lot, in my opinion matey!!
