Six suggestions for Arsene Wenger (26/6)
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gooner.ed
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Six suggestions for Arsene Wenger (26/6)
usual thread starter.... well certainly we need something to change after last season. let's face it, our style of play can be worked out without too much difficulty so a shake-up of some kind is needed. any other ideas out there? guess who we sign will influence things a bit too.
Everyone has known our gameplan for years, so what was the difference last season? In my opinion, the implementation of said gameplan, brought about by significant events. These are:
1. Loss of Bobby and Dennis
2. Replacements not scoring enough from midfield
3. Loss of (relatively) new pairing or TH and RVP.
After the 2000/01 season, the clamour was for a striker to finish off the countless chances we created. Next season, a signifcant contribution was made by Bobby and Freddie. Perhaps Hleb will never be able to replicate these levels, and he could certainly chance his arm a little more, but within our recent style of play he serves a purpose.
From what I have season during the AW years, our style of play can either be put into the utilise the speedy striker with wingers category, or the interchanging style now adopted with strikers out wide and more total football in look.
I think the Boss will be looking for more goals from his deeper players and if that might mean bringing a Babel type in, and relegating Hleb? to squad player. Rosicky is certainly capable of getting into double figures. I can't see any drastic change in style taking place.
It will also be interesting to see how our formation develops as we had excellent periods of play at the Theatre of C**ts (the whole game)and Shite Hart Lane (second half) playing with 5 in midfield
1. Loss of Bobby and Dennis
2. Replacements not scoring enough from midfield
3. Loss of (relatively) new pairing or TH and RVP.
After the 2000/01 season, the clamour was for a striker to finish off the countless chances we created. Next season, a signifcant contribution was made by Bobby and Freddie. Perhaps Hleb will never be able to replicate these levels, and he could certainly chance his arm a little more, but within our recent style of play he serves a purpose.
From what I have season during the AW years, our style of play can either be put into the utilise the speedy striker with wingers category, or the interchanging style now adopted with strikers out wide and more total football in look.
I think the Boss will be looking for more goals from his deeper players and if that might mean bringing a Babel type in, and relegating Hleb? to squad player. Rosicky is certainly capable of getting into double figures. I can't see any drastic change in style taking place.
It will also be interesting to see how our formation develops as we had excellent periods of play at the Theatre of C**ts (the whole game)and Shite Hart Lane (second half) playing with 5 in midfield
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Eboue Can't Defend
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Very good article, but the author makes the old mistake of thinking an attacking full-back - in this case Eboue - can automatically become an out & out wide player/winger. It very rarely works.
The reason being that the defender, who normally comes forward in addition to the wide man, takes advantage of the space his colleague has made for him because opposition defenders are concentrating on said player.
However, most full-backs don't have sufficient skill/ability either to make space for themselves, or to take on and beat the opposition defender on a consistent enough basis - especially with an end product expected. How many times have we seen both Eboue and Clichy get into space out wide, yet fail to deliver an accurate cross?
Indeed, something like this was being advocated by some Arsenal fans when we still had Cashley. England tried it with Cole and Bridge but it never worked.
Eboue - who everyone knows can't defend!!
- would ideally be suited to the position of wing-back in a 3-5-2 formation, where he could venture forward with gay abandon knowing there would be enough defensive cover behind him (Toure, Djourou & Gallas?). By the way, this formation would also benefit Clichy as well.
Cesc, Diaby and Tomas could be the three man central midfield, with Robin Van Persie playing either just behind or alongside Adebayor/Bendtner/ any new striker.
The only problem is that Arsene wouldn't want to play that way. He is an avowed advocate of the 4-4-2 system (or slight variations of it) and I can't see him changing now. More's the pity!!
The reason being that the defender, who normally comes forward in addition to the wide man, takes advantage of the space his colleague has made for him because opposition defenders are concentrating on said player.
However, most full-backs don't have sufficient skill/ability either to make space for themselves, or to take on and beat the opposition defender on a consistent enough basis - especially with an end product expected. How many times have we seen both Eboue and Clichy get into space out wide, yet fail to deliver an accurate cross?
Indeed, something like this was being advocated by some Arsenal fans when we still had Cashley. England tried it with Cole and Bridge but it never worked.
Eboue - who everyone knows can't defend!!
- would ideally be suited to the position of wing-back in a 3-5-2 formation, where he could venture forward with gay abandon knowing there would be enough defensive cover behind him (Toure, Djourou & Gallas?). By the way, this formation would also benefit Clichy as well.Cesc, Diaby and Tomas could be the three man central midfield, with Robin Van Persie playing either just behind or alongside Adebayor/Bendtner/ any new striker.
The only problem is that Arsene wouldn't want to play that way. He is an avowed advocate of the 4-4-2 system (or slight variations of it) and I can't see him changing now. More's the pity!!
Last edited by Eboue Can't Defend on Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ECD
I think this is interesting and pertinent to the forthcoming season. But before anything, I think I must have lead you on somewhere (don't start!!) regarding Eboue. Which part of the post because I wasn't refering to him...I don't think! If you could let me know then I can maybe clarify something and reply to, and expand upon your post properly.
I'm such a tease...
I think this is interesting and pertinent to the forthcoming season. But before anything, I think I must have lead you on somewhere (don't start!!) regarding Eboue. Which part of the post because I wasn't refering to him...I don't think! If you could let me know then I can maybe clarify something and reply to, and expand upon your post properly.
I'm such a tease...
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Eboue Can't Defend
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ECD
I will give myself a good spanking for not paying attention and change my name to Galasso can't read 
As it is, I agree with you (mostly).
Eboue and Clichy are excellent in getting themselves into good positions, only to waste alot of good work when it comes to the final ball.
And as for Tomas mentioned in the article, he looked most effective at TTOC in September and at SHL, when him and Alex were allowed free rein supporting Adebayor with Diaby, Gilberto and Fabregas patrolling the middle.
Which leads on to the formation. Yep 4-4-2 it is, but I am sure AW would argue that it is fluid and having attacking full-backs gives us the ability to overwhelm teams inside. Having said that, if you're full-backs can't deliver....We have the personnel who understand how to make these varying systems work, all they need to do is execute them.
I will give myself a good spanking for not paying attention and change my name to Galasso can't read As it is, I agree with you (mostly).
Eboue and Clichy are excellent in getting themselves into good positions, only to waste alot of good work when it comes to the final ball.
And as for Tomas mentioned in the article, he looked most effective at TTOC in September and at SHL, when him and Alex were allowed free rein supporting Adebayor with Diaby, Gilberto and Fabregas patrolling the middle.
Which leads on to the formation. Yep 4-4-2 it is, but I am sure AW would argue that it is fluid and having attacking full-backs gives us the ability to overwhelm teams inside. Having said that, if you're full-backs can't deliver....We have the personnel who understand how to make these varying systems work, all they need to do is execute them.
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I Hate Hleb
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CUM ON!! THAT WOULDN'T BE GOOD!!
CAN YOU AT LEAST WAIT UNTIL YOU GET OFF THE COMPUTER?Galasso wrote:ECD,
I will give myself a good spanking...
I MEAN, WOULDN'T WANT A STICKY KEY-BOARD, WOULD WE? 
Re: CUM ON!! THAT WOULDN'T BE GOOD!!
I Hate Hleb wrote:CAN YOU AT LEAST WAIT UNTIL YOU GET OFF THE COMPUTER?Galasso wrote:ECD,
I will give myself a good spanking...
IHH
I think I have some protective bubble wrap somewhere...
I found that it always comes in handy in the future, that's why I never toss it away.
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I Hate Hleb
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DO YOU POP YOUR LOAD??
GALASSO,
PROTECTIVE BUBBLE WRAP EH? THAT IS KINKY!!
MOST OF US USE TISSUE PAPER OR TOLIET ROLL!!
PROTECTIVE BUBBLE WRAP EH? THAT IS KINKY!!
MOST OF US USE TISSUE PAPER OR TOLIET ROLL!! 1. Sign your contract Arsene to reassure current and prospective players you will at the club beyond next season.
2. Address the lack or aerial dominance at the heart of our defence.
3. Sign a striker with pace and a proven goal scoring record to replace you know who.
4. Sign a winger. Not a player who starts wide but constantly cuts in, we need an out and out winger. Failing that try Eboue on the wing, not as a wing back, but as wide midfielder. If we don't buy give him a go as our right sided midfielder.
5. Find a right-back who can defend. OK Hoyte has promise but Eboue's defensive instincts are non exisitent.
6. Buy a centre half to give us strength in depth to help cover for the loss of Toure when he goes to the African Nations. We also need more reliable deputies than Senderos and the promising Djourou.
2. Address the lack or aerial dominance at the heart of our defence.
3. Sign a striker with pace and a proven goal scoring record to replace you know who.
4. Sign a winger. Not a player who starts wide but constantly cuts in, we need an out and out winger. Failing that try Eboue on the wing, not as a wing back, but as wide midfielder. If we don't buy give him a go as our right sided midfielder.
5. Find a right-back who can defend. OK Hoyte has promise but Eboue's defensive instincts are non exisitent.
6. Buy a centre half to give us strength in depth to help cover for the loss of Toure when he goes to the African Nations. We also need more reliable deputies than Senderos and the promising Djourou.
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Its Up 4 Grabs Now
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I agree with the sentiments of ECD & Galasso regarding Eboue & Clichy as attacking full-backs (and definately with the point that Eboue should NOT be converted into a "winger"!). But personally i think we would be much better off with a 4-3-3 than a 3-5-2 or 4-5-1.
By 4-3-3 i mean the Dutch or dare i say it Barcelona 4-3-3 style formation. With the current squad i would hope for a team like this:
------------------------------Adebayor------------------------------
----------Walcott------------------------------Van Persie---------
--------------------Rosicky-------------Fabregas-------------------
-------------------------------Gilberto-------------------------------
-----Clichy----------Gallas-------------Toure----------Eboue-----
-----------------------Lehmann or Fabianski----------------------
I know Walcott may not be a popular choice but to be honest i've only included him as obviously I have no idea who we are going to sign!
I'm not talking about sending RVP back out to the wing either (as he was at the start of last season), he would have more freedom to roam about (a la Ronny or Messi) and find the space to run at players (a key issue if teams continue to adopt the 10 men behind the ball tactic).
Ade would actually suit this formation much better as although his finishing is awful his link-up play is actually pretty strong.
Super Tom would be playing in his ideal position and be able to get forward into the "second-striker" position. He's wasted on the wing in my opinion.
Cesc would have more time on the ball with the extra protection of a 3-man midfield.
I'm a big fan of Diaby but Gilberto might be a better option in the short-term as he would eb able to sit in front of the defence (instead of having to unsuccessfully play the "enforcer" role) which in turn would give Eboue & Clichy more license to break forward knowing that Bert was there to cover for them.
We wouldnt lose any width either as unless we buy some genuine out-and-out wingers we wont have any in the forst place, even playing 4-4-2.
All in all we would hopefully be a much more fluid team instead of playing in straight lines (with the wingers always coming inside) which always seems to end up with us passing sideways. This formation would allow us to play that "trinagular" football that Wenger loves so much.
Also if we get the right strikers in the front 3 (assuming Ade comes out the 1st team) may well be interchangeable making it harder for teams to anticipate how to defend against us.
By 4-3-3 i mean the Dutch or dare i say it Barcelona 4-3-3 style formation. With the current squad i would hope for a team like this:
------------------------------Adebayor------------------------------
----------Walcott------------------------------Van Persie---------
--------------------Rosicky-------------Fabregas-------------------
-------------------------------Gilberto-------------------------------
-----Clichy----------Gallas-------------Toure----------Eboue-----
-----------------------Lehmann or Fabianski----------------------
I know Walcott may not be a popular choice but to be honest i've only included him as obviously I have no idea who we are going to sign!
I'm not talking about sending RVP back out to the wing either (as he was at the start of last season), he would have more freedom to roam about (a la Ronny or Messi) and find the space to run at players (a key issue if teams continue to adopt the 10 men behind the ball tactic).
Ade would actually suit this formation much better as although his finishing is awful his link-up play is actually pretty strong.
Super Tom would be playing in his ideal position and be able to get forward into the "second-striker" position. He's wasted on the wing in my opinion.
Cesc would have more time on the ball with the extra protection of a 3-man midfield.
I'm a big fan of Diaby but Gilberto might be a better option in the short-term as he would eb able to sit in front of the defence (instead of having to unsuccessfully play the "enforcer" role) which in turn would give Eboue & Clichy more license to break forward knowing that Bert was there to cover for them.
We wouldnt lose any width either as unless we buy some genuine out-and-out wingers we wont have any in the forst place, even playing 4-4-2.
All in all we would hopefully be a much more fluid team instead of playing in straight lines (with the wingers always coming inside) which always seems to end up with us passing sideways. This formation would allow us to play that "trinagular" football that Wenger loves so much.
Also if we get the right strikers in the front 3 (assuming Ade comes out the 1st team) may well be interchangeable making it harder for teams to anticipate how to defend against us.
It's Up 4 Grabs Now
This is an excellent post.
I like this because althought Wenger is a devotee of the 4-4-2, it hasn't always been a rigid one. Bobby often drifted into middle, especially in the second half of games, from where he could dictate our attacking threat.
Assuming that this was used/tested, however you want to put, what do you think of Diaby taking Rosicky's place and Rosicky in Walcott's. After all, Rosciky did play in a more advanced position for Borussia Dortmund, although success at that club was limited due the general run down of the team and financial implosion that they suffered.
Sorry, off the track a bit there. I thought that Diaby, who could dovetail with Fabregas, would also provide a little bit of extra security alongside Gilberto when needed. Also, Rosicky, as he showed towards the end of last season has got some shooting boots and the adjustment last year will hopefully help to get over the first season syndrome.
Adebayor - Yes. A first rate link up man who can hold the ball up incredibly well - see Chelsea and Man Utd away to mention but a few. And if there are doubts about his scoring ability, why not link him with two players. I am sure he would get his fair share of chances.
However, if we go ahead and sign a speedy striker then this is probably all bollocks!
This is an excellent post.
I like this because althought Wenger is a devotee of the 4-4-2, it hasn't always been a rigid one. Bobby often drifted into middle, especially in the second half of games, from where he could dictate our attacking threat.
Assuming that this was used/tested, however you want to put, what do you think of Diaby taking Rosicky's place and Rosicky in Walcott's. After all, Rosciky did play in a more advanced position for Borussia Dortmund, although success at that club was limited due the general run down of the team and financial implosion that they suffered.
Sorry, off the track a bit there. I thought that Diaby, who could dovetail with Fabregas, would also provide a little bit of extra security alongside Gilberto when needed. Also, Rosicky, as he showed towards the end of last season has got some shooting boots and the adjustment last year will hopefully help to get over the first season syndrome.
Adebayor - Yes. A first rate link up man who can hold the ball up incredibly well - see Chelsea and Man Utd away to mention but a few. And if there are doubts about his scoring ability, why not link him with two players. I am sure he would get his fair share of chances.
However, if we go ahead and sign a speedy striker then this is probably all bollocks!
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Its Up 4 Grabs Now
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Yeah Rosicky would probably be a good option in that position, especially as maybe having him and Fabregas in the centre together with Bert would maybe still leave us a bit lightweight - whereas Diaby's driving presence alongside Cesc would make us much more dynamic. At the least it would be a good alternative depending on the opposition.
I never saw Rosicky much for Borussia (except against us) but for the Czech Republic he's always seemed to play in a more central, advanced position.
Youre right our "4-4-2" was never rigid - which was why it was so hard to defend against... Henry would drift out to the left, Bobby would come inside, that left back we had would end up further advanced on the left wing than either of the two, Bergy would drop into midfield and so on. Even Paddy would sometimes advance beyond the strikers (a la his goal against Spuds 5-4) .
I'm surprised Wenger hasnt been more open to the 4-3-3 set-up given his obsession with the Dutch Total Football era.
But like you say, if the Martins rumours are in any way true this has all been a load of swallocks!
I never saw Rosicky much for Borussia (except against us) but for the Czech Republic he's always seemed to play in a more central, advanced position.
Youre right our "4-4-2" was never rigid - which was why it was so hard to defend against... Henry would drift out to the left, Bobby would come inside, that left back we had would end up further advanced on the left wing than either of the two, Bergy would drop into midfield and so on. Even Paddy would sometimes advance beyond the strikers (a la his goal against Spuds 5-4) .
I'm surprised Wenger hasnt been more open to the 4-3-3 set-up given his obsession with the Dutch Total Football era.
But like you say, if the Martins rumours are in any way true this has all been a load of swallocks!
Like it, the reasoning makes sense and we need to get back to a more fluid game.
I'm glad you stress that RVP wouldn't be pushed out wide as with him now being the best finisher at the club we need him in and around the box an awful lot. When the ball comes in he needs to be there. I agree he should be allowed to roam at times but I'd like to see him given strict instructions to play off Adebayor as much as he can. Adebayor proved last year that he's a real nuisance to defences and even if not winning the ball himself he rarely allows the opposing defenders to cleanly win the ball; Result = lots of knock downs so we need to get players in and around him.
Last season I felt we often looked over exposed at the back and for that reason alone I'd prefer a midfield 3 of Gilberto, Cesc and Diaby. We all know what Gilberto offers, Diaby would give us a stronger base and added cover given his size & pitch coverage (sound familiar?). Having that would free Cesc up more to push forward. I'm convinced our little Spanish Genius has a Pires size goal hall in him so lets get him pushing on more!!
Walcotts day will come and I can see him being more effective next season. But for now I'd give Tom the nod in the 3rd advanced position as I think it will enhance our link play.
My one reservation with the formation and the names put forward is that we have no genuine pace out wide if Walcott is not a starter. I know Clichy and Eboue can push forward but I think we need genuine pace from a starting midfield position, not just occassional runs when the full backs get the chance.
I'm glad you stress that RVP wouldn't be pushed out wide as with him now being the best finisher at the club we need him in and around the box an awful lot. When the ball comes in he needs to be there. I agree he should be allowed to roam at times but I'd like to see him given strict instructions to play off Adebayor as much as he can. Adebayor proved last year that he's a real nuisance to defences and even if not winning the ball himself he rarely allows the opposing defenders to cleanly win the ball; Result = lots of knock downs so we need to get players in and around him.
Last season I felt we often looked over exposed at the back and for that reason alone I'd prefer a midfield 3 of Gilberto, Cesc and Diaby. We all know what Gilberto offers, Diaby would give us a stronger base and added cover given his size & pitch coverage (sound familiar?). Having that would free Cesc up more to push forward. I'm convinced our little Spanish Genius has a Pires size goal hall in him so lets get him pushing on more!!
Walcotts day will come and I can see him being more effective next season. But for now I'd give Tom the nod in the 3rd advanced position as I think it will enhance our link play.
My one reservation with the formation and the names put forward is that we have no genuine pace out wide if Walcott is not a starter. I know Clichy and Eboue can push forward but I think we need genuine pace from a starting midfield position, not just occassional runs when the full backs get the chance.
Trevheff
I am glad that you mentioned Walcott - you gave the reason why - Rosciky is the man capable of this position now and Walcott is still learning.
To get pace out wide, by which I assume you mean a winger type, the formation would have to be tweaked. Bobby and Freddie never had great pace and their full backs were Lauren/****. Eboue and Clichy can provide some support as they are both pretty quick, although not so effective end product wise. Better for them to concentrate on their defending, with Clichy improving all the time. As we are reminded, Eboue Can't Defend although he really needs to try!
I am glad that you mentioned Walcott - you gave the reason why - Rosciky is the man capable of this position now and Walcott is still learning.
To get pace out wide, by which I assume you mean a winger type, the formation would have to be tweaked. Bobby and Freddie never had great pace and their full backs were Lauren/****. Eboue and Clichy can provide some support as they are both pretty quick, although not so effective end product wise. Better for them to concentrate on their defending, with Clichy improving all the time. As we are reminded, Eboue Can't Defend although he really needs to try!
