Anelka - Quenelle gesture

[Top Londoner]

It might seem like "Nothing" to you but to me and others it is personal.
Not sure if you have read some of the previous pages on this thread for the Zionism discussion, but even that aside, this Dieudonne "comedian" is a blatant anti-Semite and racist.
He makes "jokes" about the Holocaust and hangs out with Le Pen. And somehow, Anelka, a French Moroccan Muslim, is mates with Diedonne?
Shows Anelka to be a twat.

Whether Anelka is a twat or not does not give you, nor anyone, the right to regulate or police how he celebrates his goal if there are no restrictions in place for anything else.

Christianity has an awful record when it comes to past indiscretions, yet we allow people to make Christian symbols on the football pitch every week. You either ban all expression, be it political or religious, or you allow it all. No exceptions.

I do not even understand what the term "rights" means, to me it is a nebulous concept.
I understand laws though, and to an extent morals and ethics.

I know that the Quenelle is offensive and a hate filled gesture in that the "comedian" who propagates it is a man of hate, throwing a lot of it especially in my direction.
So I will speak out against it.

The Quenelle does not remotely equate with a Christian gesture.
People may have done awful things according to their interpretation of Christianity, but the motivation of Christianity is not one of hate.

I have no agreement with you that all expression should be banned, that concept suggests people are stupid and cannot work out the difference between gestures.

No problem at all with a player throwing his arms up when scoring or pretending to rock a baby such as Bebeto World Cup 1994 or pretending to pay golf etc, that is a bit of fun.

The souls of countless millions killed throughout humanity in the name of god and Christian beliefs might disagree with you on that. The old testament god who sanctioned murder on an unfathomable scale would also counter your point.

Anelka is an idiot, that's no secret but can people not understand the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism? Of course he is a muslim, rich and doing something which might offend some Jews which is 3 strikes and explains why the press are crucifying him, no pun intended.

Why do some people scream 'I'm offended' like that somehow gives them entitlement? ''Being offended provides no objective indication of "right" & "wrong". It's nothing more than a barometer of your own emotional control.'' Ricky Gervais

With respect Mr T.
QuartzGooner has stated that Dieudonne is a blatant anti semite and racist and not the anti Zionist that you are alluding to with your comment ? I wonder if you actually understand the differences ?
The fact that Anelka and Nasri have apologised (for their indiscretions) speaks volumes, especially with the religious tensions in France, Marseille and Lyon in particular.

HAPPY NEW YEAR


WENGER OUT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, McDOWELL SAYS SO





COPYCAT

[MrT]

Hey father ted...
You are coming across like a wum on nearly all the thred you post on.

Just a heads up mate

Thanks for the heads up but I don't see how so? I have talked about football, I have had some banter and in this case I took exception to someone being told they cannot feel offended (which was ludicrous enough as it is) and then for them to try and justify that with a Ricky Gervais quote of all people. I pointed out how absurd this it, they didn't respond to that too kindly and now we are here.

Dunno why I'm still replying to this, but I am a tad bored today so I'll bite.

You can feel offended all you like, doesn't make you right does it? I feel offended at your stupidity but you wouldn't think I was right though would you? I never said people can't feel offended, I made the point that it doesn't give them entitlement to determine how others feel or interpret something. Got it? Do you need it dumbed down any further?

[MrT]

It might seem like "Nothing" to you but to me and others it is personal.
Not sure if you have read some of the previous pages on this thread for the Zionism discussion, but even that aside, this Dieudonne "comedian" is a blatant anti-Semite and racist.
He makes "jokes" about the Holocaust and hangs out with Le Pen. And somehow, Anelka, a French Moroccan Muslim, is mates with Diedonne?
Shows Anelka to be a twat.

Whether Anelka is a twat or not does not give you, nor anyone, the right to regulate or police how he celebrates his goal if there are no restrictions in place for anything else.

Christianity has an awful record when it comes to past indiscretions, yet we allow people to make Christian symbols on the football pitch every week. You either ban all expression, be it political or religious, or you allow it all. No exceptions.

I do not even understand what the term "rights" means, to me it is a nebulous concept.
I understand laws though, and to an extent morals and ethics.

I know that the Quenelle is offensive and a hate filled gesture in that the "comedian" who propagates it is a man of hate, throwing a lot of it especially in my direction.
So I will speak out against it.

The Quenelle does not remotely equate with a Christian gesture.
People may have done awful things according to their interpretation of Christianity, but the motivation of Christianity is not one of hate.

I have no agreement with you that all expression should be banned, that concept suggests people are stupid and cannot work out the difference between gestures.

No problem at all with a player throwing his arms up when scoring or pretending to rock a baby such as Bebeto World Cup 1994 or pretending to pay golf etc, that is a bit of fun.

The souls of countless millions killed throughout humanity in the name of god and Christian beliefs might disagree with you on that. The old testament god who sanctioned murder on an unfathomable scale would also counter your point.

Anelka is an idiot, that's no secret but can people not understand the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism? Of course he is a muslim, rich and doing something which might offend some Jews which is 3 strikes and explains why the press are crucifying him, no pun intended.

Why do some people scream 'I'm offended' like that somehow gives them entitlement? ''Being offended provides no objective indication of "right" & "wrong". It's nothing more than a barometer of your own emotional control.'' Ricky Gervais

With respect Mr T.
QuartzGooner has stated that Dieudonne is a blatant anti semite and racist and not the anti Zionist that you are alluding to with your comment ? I wonder if you actually understand the differences ?
The fact that Anelka and Nasri have apologised (for their indiscretions) speaks volumes, especially with the religious tensions in France, Marseille and Lyon in particular.

HAPPY NEW YEAR


WENGER OUT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, McDOWELL SAYS SO





COPYCAT

No need to patronise, I fully understand the differences or else I wouldn't have made the distinction.

So because Quartz says so it must be true then? From what I had read about this comedian fella was that he was a supporter of the Palestinian cause which of course automatically makes him an anti-semite....YAWN. I admit I don't know or care about his personal views on race in great detail or depth but before we start banding around the anti-semite label it's best to get a balanced understanding.

[father_ted]

Hey father ted...
You are coming across like a wum on nearly all the thred you post on.

Just a heads up mate

Thanks for the heads up but I don't see how so? I have talked about football, I have had some banter and in this case I took exception to someone being told they cannot feel offended (which was ludicrous enough as it is) and then for them to try and justify that with a Ricky Gervais quote of all people. I pointed out how absurd this it, they didn't respond to that too kindly and now we are here.

Dunno why I'm still replying to this, but I am a tad bored today so I'll bite.

You can feel offended all you like, doesn't make you right does it? I feel offended at your stupidity but you wouldn't think I was right though would you? I never said people can't feel offended, I made the point that it doesn't give them entitlement to determine how others feel or interpret something. Got it? Do you need it dumbed down any further?

I am offended by the irony of you feeling offended at my "stupidity" but I will let that one sail past you as I am sure it is lost on you. I will give you that though. I was a bit rash and rush-read what you actually typed and you are right, you are eluding to people's rights to tell other people what to be offended by and if they are entitled to those rights etc and so for that I apologise. I still say you are a simplistic old fool for thinking a Ricky Gervais quote was a good idea to tr and reinforce that point however.
In some regards I agree with you, only ever so slightly though, the idea what some section of the community can feel entitled to tell us what we should be offended by does seem ludicrous however I think in this case you are not 100% on the button. I doubt (was it Quartz??) was telling you to be offended by this arm gesture, it was more a case of him dis-agreeing with your view point on why it should or should not be seen as offensive and his reasons as too why he thinks it should be seen as offensive.
I agree with him in that regards, I don't think Anelka should be punished for it, This comedian guy makes no secrete of his Anti-semitism and as Anelka states, he is good friends with him so I think it would be naive to believe Anelka was not aware of its full meaning but it was also be very difficult to prove. However, now it has received all this attention I think any use of it should be prohibited. It was created by this comedian, a guy who denies the holocaust, makes jokes about it and is on the face of it all a total prick and so imo it is no better than a nazi salute with the same connotations behind it.

[father_ted]

No need to patronise, I fully understand the differences or else I wouldn't have made the distinction.

So because Quartz says so it must be true then? From what I had read about this comedian fella was that he was a supporter of the Palestinian cause which of course automatically makes him an anti-semite....YAWN. I admit I don't know or care about his personal views on race in great detail or depth but before we start banding around the anti-semite label it's best to get a balanced understanding.

Could it also be argued that before arguing so strongly, using restraint when labelling someone an ant-semite, it may well be worth getting a balanced understanding of why people believe he is that? I mean c'mon, several people have posted several links in this very thread to what this comedians opinion on the jewish are and I can assure you that it much more damning than just a bit of support for Palestine.

[SteveO 35]

Hey father ted...
You are coming across like a wum on nearly all the thred you post on.

Just a heads up mate

Thanks for the heads up but I don't see how so? I have talked about football, I have had some banter and in this case I took exception to someone being told they cannot feel offended (which was ludicrous enough as it is) and then for them to try and justify that with a Ricky Gervais quote of all people. I pointed out how absurd this it, they didn't respond to that too kindly and now we are here.

Dunno why I'm still replying to this, but I am a tad bored today so I'll bite.

You can feel offended all you like, doesn't make you right does it? I feel offended at your stupidity but you wouldn't think I was right though would you? I never said people can't feel offended, I made the point that it doesn't give them entitlement to determine how others feel or interpret something. Got it? Do you need it dumbed down any further?

I am offended by the irony of you feeling offended at my "stupidity" but I will let that one sail past you as I am sure it is lost on you. I will give you that though. I was a bit rash and rush-read what you actually typed and you are right, you are eluding to people's rights to tell other people what to be offended by and if they are entitled to those rights etc and so for that I apologise. I still say you are a simplistic old fool for thinking a Ricky Gervais quote was a good idea to tr and reinforce that point however.
In some regards I agree with you, only ever so slightly though, the idea what some section of the community can feel entitled to tell us what we should be offended by does seem ludicrous however I think in this case you are not 100% on the button. I doubt (was it Quartz??) was telling you to be offended by this arm gesture, it was more a case of him dis-agreeing with your view point on why it should or should not be seen as offensive and his reasons as too why he thinks it should be seen as offensive.
I agree with him in that regards, I don't think Anelka should be punished for it, This comedian guy makes no secrete of his Anti-semitism and as Anelka states, he is good friends with him so I think it would be naive to believe Anelka was not aware of its full meaning but it was also be very difficult to prove. However, now it has received all this attention I think any use of it should be prohibited. It was created by this comedian, a guy who denies the holocaust, makes jokes about it and is on the face of it all a total prick and so imo it is no better than a nazi salute with the same connotations behind it.

Can I just add that I am offended at you being offended at him being offended by Offended of Tunbridge Wells. If anyone takes offence, then I'm sorry but I'm also offended that you thought I was trying to offend you

[father_ted]

I find that very offensive

[Top Londoner]

Hey father ted...
You are coming across like a wum on nearly all the thred you post on.

Just a heads up mate

Thanks for the heads up but I don't see how so? I have talked about football, I have had some banter and in this case I took exception to someone being told they cannot feel offended (which was ludicrous enough as it is) and then for them to try and justify that with a Ricky Gervais quote of all people. I pointed out how absurd this it, they didn't respond to that too kindly and now we are here.

Dunno why I'm still replying to this, but I am a tad bored today so I'll bite.

You can feel offended all you like, doesn't make you right does it? I feel offended at your stupidity but you wouldn't think I was right though would you? I never said people can't feel offended, I made the point that it doesn't give them entitlement to determine how others feel or interpret something. Got it? Do you need it dumbed down any further?

I am offended by the irony of you feeling offended at my "stupidity" but I will let that one sail past you as I am sure it is lost on you. I will give you that though. I was a bit rash and rush-read what you actually typed and you are right, you are eluding to people's rights to tell other people what to be offended by and if they are entitled to those rights etc and so for that I apologise. I still say you are a simplistic old fool for thinking a Ricky Gervais quote was a good idea to tr and reinforce that point however.
In some regards I agree with you, only ever so slightly though, the idea what some section of the community can feel entitled to tell us what we should be offended by does seem ludicrous however I think in this case you are not 100% on the button. I doubt (was it Quartz??) was telling you to be offended by this arm gesture, it was more a case of him dis-agreeing with your view point on why it should or should not be seen as offensive and his reasons as too why he thinks it should be seen as offensive.
I agree with him in that regards, I don't think Anelka should be punished for it, This comedian guy makes no secrete of his Anti-semitism and as Anelka states, he is good friends with him so I think it would be naive to believe Anelka was not aware of its full meaning but it was also be very difficult to prove. However, now it has received all this attention I think any use of it should be prohibited. It was created by this comedian, a guy who denies the holocaust, makes jokes about it and is on the face of it all a total prick and so imo it is no better than a nazi salute with the same connotations behind it.

Can I just add that I am offended at you being offended at him being offended by Offended of Tunbridge Wells. If anyone takes offence, then I'm sorry but I'm also offended that you thought I was trying to offend you

HELL NO.

Fire up the BBQ sonny.

[SteveO 35]

I find that very offensive

Fuck off then

[MrT]

Hey father ted...
You are coming across like a wum on nearly all the thred you post on.

Just a heads up mate

Thanks for the heads up but I don't see how so? I have talked about football, I have had some banter and in this case I took exception to someone being told they cannot feel offended (which was ludicrous enough as it is) and then for them to try and justify that with a Ricky Gervais quote of all people. I pointed out how absurd this it, they didn't respond to that too kindly and now we are here.

Dunno why I'm still replying to this, but I am a tad bored today so I'll bite.

You can feel offended all you like, doesn't make you right does it? I feel offended at your stupidity but you wouldn't think I was right though would you? I never said people can't feel offended, I made the point that it doesn't give them entitlement to determine how others feel or interpret something. Got it? Do you need it dumbed down any further?

I am offended by the irony of you feeling offended at my "stupidity" but I will let that one sail past you as I am sure it is lost on you. I will give you that though. I was a bit rash and rush-read what you actually typed and you are right, you are eluding to people's rights to tell other people what to be offended by and if they are entitled to those rights etc and so for that I apologise. I still say you are a simplistic old fool for thinking a Ricky Gervais quote was a good idea to tr and reinforce that point however.
In some regards I agree with you, only ever so slightly though, the idea what some section of the community can feel entitled to tell us what we should be offended by does seem ludicrous however I think in this case you are not 100% on the button. I doubt (was it Quartz??) was telling you to be offended by this arm gesture, it was more a case of him dis-agreeing with your view point on why it should or should not be seen as offensive and his reasons as too why he thinks it should be seen as offensive.
I agree with him in that regards, I don't think Anelka should be punished for it, This comedian guy makes no secrete of his Anti-semitism and as Anelka states, he is good friends with him so I think it would be naive to believe Anelka was not aware of its full meaning but it was also be very difficult to prove. However, now it has received all this attention I think any use of it should be prohibited. It was created by this comedian, a guy who denies the holocaust, makes jokes about it and is on the face of it all a total prick and so imo it is no better than a nazi salute with the same connotations behind it.

That was the joke....

My main point was the sense of entitlement people clamour too when they feel everyone should feel offended at what they deem offensive. If this guy is as racist and bigoted as reported then I have no time for him just so I'm clear on that. I do not subscribe to zombie group think before passing judgement on someone and before reading all the facts.

I'm done with this, enjoy your new years everyone.

[Top Londoner]

Mr T

aka Frankie Boyle

[clockender1]

okay, I feel bad now that no-one noticed my quote from another comedian. lol. John Stewart.

just because you quote from a comedian doesn't make it flippant - if its insightful and true.

[Top Londoner]

HAPPY NEW YEAR FROM (WA) AUSTRALIA 8 HOURS AHEAD OF UK



NOW

WENGER OUT

[Henry Norris 1913]

'quenelle is all this about?

[father_ted]

Hey father ted...
You are coming across like a wum on nearly all the thred you post on.

Just a heads up mate

Thanks for the heads up but I don't see how so? I have talked about football, I have had some banter and in this case I took exception to someone being told they cannot feel offended (which was ludicrous enough as it is) and then for them to try and justify that with a Ricky Gervais quote of all people. I pointed out how absurd this it, they didn't respond to that too kindly and now we are here.

Dunno why I'm still replying to this, but I am a tad bored today so I'll bite.

You can feel offended all you like, doesn't make you right does it? I feel offended at your stupidity but you wouldn't think I was right though would you? I never said people can't feel offended, I made the point that it doesn't give them entitlement to determine how others feel or interpret something. Got it? Do you need it dumbed down any further?

I am offended by the irony of you feeling offended at my "stupidity" but I will let that one sail past you as I am sure it is lost on you. I will give you that though. I was a bit rash and rush-read what you actually typed and you are right, you are eluding to people's rights to tell other people what to be offended by and if they are entitled to those rights etc and so for that I apologise. I still say you are a simplistic old fool for thinking a Ricky Gervais quote was a good idea to tr and reinforce that point however.
In some regards I agree with you, only ever so slightly though, the idea what some section of the community can feel entitled to tell us what we should be offended by does seem ludicrous however I think in this case you are not 100% on the button. I doubt (was it Quartz??) was telling you to be offended by this arm gesture, it was more a case of him dis-agreeing with your view point on why it should or should not be seen as offensive and his reasons as too why he thinks it should be seen as offensive.
I agree with him in that regards, I don't think Anelka should be punished for it, This comedian guy makes no secrete of his Anti-semitism and as Anelka states, he is good friends with him so I think it would be naive to believe Anelka was not aware of its full meaning but it was also be very difficult to prove. However, now it has received all this attention I think any use of it should be prohibited. It was created by this comedian, a guy who denies the holocaust, makes jokes about it and is on the face of it all a total prick and so imo it is no better than a nazi salute with the same connotations behind it.

That was the joke....

My main point was the sense of entitlement people clamour too when they feel everyone should feel offended at what they deem offensive. If this guy is as racist and bigoted as reported then I have no time for him just so I'm clear on that. I do not subscribe to zombie group think before passing judgement on someone and before reading all the facts.

I'm done with this, enjoy your new years everyone.

Hey at the end of the day this is just an internet forum and as serious as an issue this is, all these words on a screen don't mean anything an dig's good that despite some petty digs, we are able to put across our opinions well. Don't let it sour your evening and I genuinely mean this, have a good new year. That goes to everyone on the forum, have a good one, lets bring the title home.