CARDIFF HOME THREAD

[SteveO 35]

Also I was genuinely embarrassed by some of the fans I was sitting by today. Came late, left early and nobody seemed to give a flying fuck about the game. Two blokes behind chatted non-stop about Christmas, New Year, everything and anything other than the football. One woman was giving updates on other games to the extent that she was basically reading out BBC live text word for word and probably relying on that for updates of the game going on right under her nose. Two blokes next to me spent the whole time on betting apps on their phones jabbering on about their betting tactics and every 5 minutes what they were going to put their money on. Asian girl in her young 20s who turned up wearing an Arsenal GK shirt like a dress 20 minutes into the games and then proceeded to walk back and forth up and down the same aisle for 5 minutes seemingly oblivious to the fact she was causing disruption because she couldn't read her ticket.

Prize has to go to the young bloke next to me who uttered this gem though: "Why does Alex Song never seem to get a game for us any more?" His girlfriend informed him that she may be mistaken but she thinks we sold him in the summer.

I'm not in the process of bashing our fans for the sake of it and certainly not just on the basis of age, gender, social class etc but these are the type of people the club wants to attract

Group of young guys in front of me spent most of the game planning a weekend to Amsterdam

Any singing of There's Only One to report ?

[augie]

Why is it that all the fans groups are requesting more tickets be made available to younger supporters (as a way of improving the atmosphere) if that is the way the majority carry on inside the grove ? Personally I have always felt that it is the older fans who are the one's capable of generating an atmosphere as that is the way football was when they were growing up - younger fans are being brought up on "the matchday experience" when includes the jumbo screens, replays being shown during the game and some fool blaring out pre match music, so the younger generation are not the one's who can improve atmosphere imo

[Gunner Rob]

luckily because the game was so poor for the first 88 minutes there was no singing of "theres only one"

I am sure if we had scored after about 70 minutes then we would have heard it though.

[Dan_85]

Also I was genuinely embarrassed by some of the fans I was sitting by today. Came late, left early and nobody seemed to give a flying fuck about the game. Two blokes behind chatted non-stop about Christmas, New Year, everything and anything other than the football. One woman was giving updates on other games to the extent that she was basically reading out BBC live text word for word and probably relying on that for updates of the game going on right under her nose. Two blokes next to me spent the whole time on betting apps on their phones jabbering on about their betting tactics and every 5 minutes what they were going to put their money on. Asian girl in her young 20s who turned up wearing an Arsenal GK shirt like a dress 20 minutes into the games and then proceeded to walk back and forth up and down the same aisle for 5 minutes seemingly oblivious to the fact she was causing disruption because she couldn't read her ticket.

Prize has to go to the young bloke next to me who uttered this gem though: "Why does Alex Song never seem to get a game for us any more?" His girlfriend informed him that she may be mistaken but she thinks we sold him in the summer.

I'm not in the process of bashing our fans for the sake of it and certainly not just on the basis of age, gender, social class etc but these are the type of people the club wants to attract

Group of young guys in front of me spent most of the game planning a weekend to Amsterdam

Any singing of There's Only One to report ?

Surprisingly not yesterday...

[LDB]

Why is it that all the fans groups are requesting more tickets be made available to younger supporters (as a way of improving the atmosphere) if that is the way the majority carry on inside the grove ? Personally I have always felt that it is the older fans who are the one's capable of generating an atmosphere as that is the way football was when they were growing up - younger fans are being brought up on "the matchday experience" when includes the jumbo screens, replays being shown during the game and some fool blaring out pre match music, so the younger generation are not the one's who can improve atmosphere imo

It's interesting but I guess you have to say that there cannot be more then a few thousand people out of 57,000 in the stadium who sing regularly throughout a game. With figures like that it becomes quite hard to point the finger at any particular age group. What is a fact though is that the age demographic of the crowd is getting older and older as only people earning career salaries can consistently afford tickets. I've especially found this to be the case on the upper tier of the stadium, a brief glance around me in the north bank upper and I'm one of only a handful of people under 40. Another fact is that the noise in the ground is certainly not coming from those around me, unless they're telling me to sit down.

I think one of the big problems with the yoof who come into the ground is that each one may only get to a small handful of games in a season and so they never really 'get' fan culture and it's certainly not as if some of the old codgers are setting an example. I'm 23 and for the last few seasons have made about 10-15 home games a season which is far more then I should be able to afford but I'm a very sad individual

One thing I cannot explain though is why people insist on bringing their girlfriends to "the footy"

[kiwomya]

Why is it that all the fans groups are requesting more tickets be made available to younger supporters (as a way of improving the atmosphere) if that is the way the majority carry on inside the grove ? Personally I have always felt that it is the older fans who are the one's capable of generating an atmosphere as that is the way football was when they were growing up - younger fans are being brought up on "the matchday experience" when includes the jumbo screens, replays being shown during the game and some fool blaring out pre match music, so the younger generation are not the one's who can improve atmosphere imo

It's interesting but I guess you have to say that there cannot be more then a few thousand people out of 57,000 in the stadium who sing regularly throughout a game. With figures like that it becomes quite hard to point the figure at any particular age group. What is a fact though is that the age demographic of the crowd is getting older and older as only people earning career salaries can consistently afford tickets. I've especially found this to be the case on the upper tier of the stadium, a brief glance around me in the north bank upper and I'm one of only a handful of people under 40. Another fact is that the noise in the ground is certainly not coming from those around me, unless they're telling me to sit down.

I think one of the big problems with the yoof who come into the ground is that each one may only get to a small handful of games in a season and so they never really 'get' fan culture and it's certainly not as if some of the old codgers are setting an example. I'm 23 and for the last few seasons have made about 10-15 home games a season which is far more then I should be able to afford but I'm a very sad individual

One thing I cannot explain though is why people insist on bringing their girlfriends to "the footy"

The way the game is portrayed by the media doesn't make it real any more. People expect instant results, goals and excitement. Patience no longer exists.

[LDB]

Why is it that all the fans groups are requesting more tickets be made available to younger supporters (as a way of improving the atmosphere) if that is the way the majority carry on inside the grove ? Personally I have always felt that it is the older fans who are the one's capable of generating an atmosphere as that is the way football was when they were growing up - younger fans are being brought up on "the matchday experience" when includes the jumbo screens, replays being shown during the game and some fool blaring out pre match music, so the younger generation are not the one's who can improve atmosphere imo

It's interesting but I guess you have to say that there cannot be more then a few thousand people out of 57,000 in the stadium who sing regularly throughout a game. With figures like that it becomes quite hard to point the figure at any particular age group. What is a fact though is that the age demographic of the crowd is getting older and older as only people earning career salaries can consistently afford tickets. I've especially found this to be the case on the upper tier of the stadium, a brief glance around me in the north bank upper and I'm one of only a handful of people under 40. Another fact is that the noise in the ground is certainly not coming from those around me, unless they're telling me to sit down.

I think one of the big problems with the yoof who come into the ground is that each one may only get to a small handful of games in a season and so they never really 'get' fan culture and it's certainly not as if some of the old codgers are setting an example. I'm 23 and for the last few seasons have made about 10-15 home games a season which is far more then I should be able to afford but I'm a very sad individual

One thing I cannot explain though is why people insist on bringing their girlfriends to "the footy"

The way the game is portrayed by the media doesn't make it real any more. People expect instant results, goals and excitement. Patience no longer exists.

I honestly think that some people just like being in a big crowd. This is going to sound arrogant but it's my opinion that a sizable chunk of the crowd haven't got a scooby doo about what they're actually seeing and don't really care either, they just want to see goals and take pictures of things. Whereas people had singing and making noise to distract them from watching the "boring" bits of a match nowadays it's fiddling on smartphones, taking pictures and having a nice catch up.

I'm far from an expert on the game but I love watching the individual and tactical battles that go on within a football match. I try to do this while supporting the team, I'm no leader of chants but I join in with most that try to start around me (expect stand up if you hate tottnum and OAW) but many just feel embarrassed doing it, the media did a great job in the 80s and 90s of making football chanting seem an oafish thing to do, especially among London city types.

[SteveO 35]

There is absolutely no doubt that the changing demographic is a big part of the change in atmosphere. I regularly get offered tickets for all manner of 'sports events' including PL matches at various grounds. I turn practically all of the football ones down including with a couple of suppliers to my company who get tickets for the bowl on a regular basis. The reason is that when I go to matches it's an escape from work and I'm a true supporter of one team only and always will be. What I witnessed in the upper tier of the bowl last time I went to a CL game was groups of blokes who did accept those sort of invites - just about aware of who was playing and clearly without a shadow of interest as to the outcome. They are hardly going to get an atmosphere going.

There are many other factors - the age profile is definitely one. When I sit with Father AKB in Block 2 I'm the only one in my 40s or younger in a block of 30-40 seats and when I look around the concourses before and after there are definitely a lot of older age groups around. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever, in fact I love talking to these guys about old Arsenal experiences.......but my old man and his 70+ age group with the best will in the world aren't going to be standing up waving their arms around instructing everyone to sing 'big fucking German' or whatever

Generally I would say the older population and ticket prices go hand in hand in. Younger fans are starting to be attracted to smaller clubs where schools and clubs obtain cheap tickets to go to games.

[northbank123]

There is absolutely no doubt that the changing demographic is a big part of the change in atmosphere. I regularly get offered tickets for all manner of 'sports events' including PL matches at various grounds. I turn practically all of the football ones down including with a couple of suppliers to my company who get tickets for the bowl on a regular basis. The reason is that when I go to matches it's an escape from work and I'm a true supporter of one team only and always will be. What I witnessed in the upper tier of the bowl last time I went to a CL game was groups of blokes who did accept those sort of invites - just about aware of who was playing and clearly without a shadow of interest as to the outcome. They are hardly going to get an atmosphere going.

There are many other factors - the age profile is definitely one. When I sit with Father AKB in Block 2 I'm the only one in my 40s or younger in a block of 30-40 seats and when I look around the concourses before and after there are definitely a lot of older age groups around. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever, in fact I love talking to these guys about old Arsenal experiences.......but my old man and his 70+ age group with the best will in the world aren't going to be standing up waving their arms around instructing everyone to sing 'big fucking German' or whatever

Generally I would say the older population and ticket prices go hand in hand in. Younger fans are starting to be attracted to smaller clubs where schools and clubs obtain cheap tickets to go to games.

The change in the demographic of fans that sit near me now compared to when I started going as a young kid 16 years ago is massive. I've not got a problem with somebody going to a match just because they're middle-upper class, female, old, a teenager, whatever. I don't think anybody has the right to be able to attend football matches because they're working class or from a certain area.

Also despite our shit atmosphere I've not got a problem with people who go and don't really sing - it's not for everyone and frankly there are areas in the ground (like where I sit when I go) where singing normally draws funny looks from people within a 20m radius. It would be fantastic if we had 57,000 home fans or whatever all making a racket but it's not going to happen.

But there are hoardes of fans now at the games who seem not only clueless but genuinely disinterested in the game that they've often paid a small fortune to attend. And it's not just day trippers, plenty of season ticket holders in certain areas too.

[QuartzGooner]

I first went to games late 1970's.

The major differences I see are:


- Technology.

Has been pointed out by Augie and Kiwomya.
These days people take photos at games, check other scores on their phones, chat to friends via text during games and film games on their phones!
In the 1970's you had the odd fan with a small radio who would relay scores from other games but otherwise you got involved...now far more fans are less involved and are patrons or spectators.


- Day Trippers.

As prices have increased, more people go to maybe one game per season or fly over for a once in a lifetime trip.
They spend a fair bit of time filming and taking selfies etc, rather than chanting with the crowd.


- Seats.

More people sit.
It is more sedantry than standing, encourages a more "Onlooker" type vibe rather than the more dynamic standing posture.
Also when standing you could usually meet up with friends and generate an atmosphere. That is harder to do with allocated seating.

[clockender1]

But there are hoardes of fans now at the games who seem not only clueless but genuinely disinterested in the game that they've often paid a small fortune to attend. And it's not just day trippers, plenty of season ticket holders in certain areas too.

its a status thing - before if you had a season ticket at The Arsenal, people in the know would offer you mock sympathy.

but ever since Euro 96 having a season ticket anywhere has been something to brag about (?), these new season ticket holders were the ones 'desperate' to get tickets from 1998-2005 and they are the ones who wanted the bowl.

well they got it, and now they realise that watching football is a participation sport for most of us - except the old codgers who already put their time in and werely safely shepherded into the Upper East and West stands, where they'd be safer and not dissipate the Big Noise from either end of the ground.

but of course, like many other things already mentioned, the rights of passage at Highbury have also been lost - the route from Schoolboys to North Bank to The Clock End to 'retirement' in the Uppers is no more, and a bowl is just a bowl.

There are no ends or sides, so the quieter groups among our support now sit bang in the middle of the noisy yahoos and water down the volume.

i bet you a million pounds the club never looked at the stadium design from a crowd point of view and said 'hmmmm....where are the Upper East and West stands going to sit ? "

Personally, i think we're looking at maybe 20-30 years before the stadium reverts to its natural state - we'll become mid table, draw about 30,000 as we've always done, each end will be full of die hards and wannabees, the kids in the cheap seats will be in the corner, and the families and codgers will populate the half way line.

then when we're successful again, the ends will fill in first with the new 'yoof' and the sides will fill out to the ends and bob's your uncle - singers at the ends, watchers on the sides.

I've always said, the biggest mistake (well 2nd...) the Board made in moving to the bowl was not to match seat allocations one for one on the lower tier with a seat at Highbury. By letting the free for all occur with 22,000 new season ticket holders, they split up the old terraces in one fell swoop.

idiots.

[LDB]

But there are hoardes of fans now at the games who seem not only clueless but genuinely disinterested in the game that they've often paid a small fortune to attend. And it's not just day trippers, plenty of season ticket holders in certain areas too.

its a status thing - before if you had a season ticket at The Arsenal, people in the know would offer you mock sympathy.

but ever since Euro 96 having a season ticket anywhere has been something to brag about (?), these new season ticket holders were the ones 'desparate' to get tickets from 1998-2005 and they are the ones who wanted the bowl.

well they got it, and now they realise that watching football is a participation sport for most of us - except the old codgers who already put their time in and werely safely shepherded into the Upper East and West stands, where they'd be safer and not dissipate the Big Noise from either end of the ground.

but of course, like many other things already mentioned, the rights of passage at Highbury have also been lost - the route from Schoolboys to North Bank to The Clock End to 'retirement' in the Uppersia no more, and a bowl is just a bowl.

There are no ends or sides, so the quieter groups among our support now sit bang in the middle of the noisy yahoos and water down the volume.

i bet you a million pounds the club never looked at the stadium design from a crowd point of view and said 'hmmmm....where are the Upper East and West stands going to sit ? "

Personally, i think we're looking at maybe 20-30 years before the stadium reverts to its natural state - we'll become mid table, draw about 30,000 as we've always done, each end will be full of die hards and wannabees, the kids in the cheap seats will be in the corner, and the families and codgers will populate the half way line.

then when we're successful again, the ends will fill in first with the new 'yoof' and the sides will fill out to the ends and bob's your uncle - singers at the ends, watchers on the sides.

I've always said, the biggest mistake (well 2nd...) the Board made in moving to the bowl was not to match seat allocations one for one on the lower tier with a seat at Highbury. By letting the free for all occur with 22,000 new season ticket holders, they split up the old terraces in one fell swoop.

idiots.

Spot on. When we moved stadium the board didn't think of anything beyond 'bung them all in and start counting the money'. It took them years to even think of giving the stadium a few licks of red paint.

[Gunner Rob]

great post clockender

the only thing I will take issue with you on is that you think that the attendances will go down.
you are wrong in my opinion.

Arsenal have now gone nearly 9 years without winning anything and yet it is harder than ever to get tickets.
imagine what it would be like if we actually won anything!

in the present day sadly winning trophies amongst the "new supporters" is not all that important.
it is about being considered as one of the leading clubs - being in the Champions League. Wenger and the board realise this. the determination to remain In the top 4 means that only lip service is now paid to the domestic cups and if you are still in the CL for the draw in December then it is job done.

the obsession with top 4 means we now have little chance of actually winning a trophy - it is about time more people recognised this

[Ryanswannell]

Being one of the younger posters on here (18), it's interesting to see that some people think that the younger generation are partially responsible for the often drap atmosphere. I have been two times this season and I would go more often if I could afford it (each game costs roughly 100 pounds for me) but each and every time I join in whenever a song gets going.
I've only sat in the upper tier this season, and im the youngest person withiin a 20m radius, with everyone in their 40s+, which rarely results in a great atmosphere where I am.
I am going to the game this weekend and once again Im in the uppper tier North bank. I was hoping for an electric atmosphere, but judging by the tickets available probably not.

[QuartzGooner]

I've always said, the biggest mistake (well 2nd...) the Board made in moving to the bowl was not to match seat allocations one for one on the lower tier with a seat at Highbury. By letting the free for all occur with 22,000 new season ticket holders, they split up the old terraces in one fell swoop.

The club did let people chose ticket places, and the intent was to let people be able to sit near their friends.
In theory it was a good idea, but the practice was that not all groups of friends managed to sit together.