Is ANYONE actually enjoying this season??

[northbank123]

WhY ? At the risk of opening a whole big can of worms again, why are people so against usmanov ?

I'm a football fan who is dead against sugar daddies changing the landscape of the game I love, so by default I'm against Usmanov.

I don't agree with it and I don't think it's in the spirit of sport; I think it sends the wrong message when well run clubs are leapfrogged by billionaire sugar daddies who want to add a football club to their "brand" (Etihad) or just have an excess of oil money they want to blow on a play thing (Abramovich) and I find it depressing that the governing bodies have allowed it to happen and the media and fans have gobbled it up.

So because I don't like it and certainly don't approve of this shortcut to success (what sort of message does that send anyway?) I can't say I want Usmanov at Arsenal. I don't want his money polluting our game. I don't want artificial meaningless success - I won't feel comfortable about it and I don't need hollow Arsenal victories to give my life meaning.

I want Arsenal to earn their place at the top table... and if we don't make it, so be it. I'm not blind to the problems we have at our club and I'm well aware we're hardly the fan friendly local club anymore, but still... I don't want to go down the route of Citeh and Chavs. I'd rather win less and choose the more difficult road to be honest.

g88ner I'm not saying I'm desperate for us to jump in bed with the first guy that puts his money on the table but the whole "changing the landscape thing" is a bit late - the landscape was changing 10 years ago, it is well and truly changed now.

You can't realistically expect to succeed without spending considerable amounts now. Bayern are able to bully the rest of the Bundesliga into submission with their financial clout and have absolutely cantered to the title last two seasons, Barcelona and Real Madrid spend phenomenal amounts, City and Chelsea are up there here and over the last few years United have only competed because they were willing to spend big bucks - the number of £15-30m purchases they've made over the past decade is quite astounding. Ferguson must have hated paying some of those sums (and wages) but knew it was an ugly necessity.

One way or the other we can't expect to win anything unless we spend. And if under Usmanov we do that, it's a huge positive against his name (although not only factor). And if I'm being honest I can't say I'd be proud and shouting from the rooftops if that money came from fleecing our own fans rather than his pockets.

[flash gunner]

Football has changed, move with the times or get left behind. I don't want to be left behind. Bring in Usmanov

[arseofacrow]

Football has changed, move with the times or get left behind. I don't want to be left behind. Bring in Usmanov

Flash, you getting left behind....I think that ship has sailed mate!

[g88ner]

WhY ? At the risk of opening a whole big can of worms again, why are people so against usmanov ?

I'm a football fan who is dead against sugar daddies changing the landscape of the game I love, so by default I'm against Usmanov.

I don't agree with it and I don't think it's in the spirit of sport; I think it sends the wrong message when well run clubs are leapfrogged by billionaire sugar daddies who want to add a football club to their "brand" (Etihad) or just have an excess of oil money they want to blow on a play thing (Abramovich) and I find it depressing that the governing bodies have allowed it to happen and the media and fans have gobbled it up.

So because I don't like it and certainly don't approve of this shortcut to success (what sort of message does that send anyway?) I can't say I want Usmanov at Arsenal. I don't want his money polluting our game. I don't want artificial meaningless success - I won't feel comfortable about it and I don't need hollow Arsenal victories to give my life meaning.

I want Arsenal to earn their place at the top table... and if we don't make it, so be it. I'm not blind to the problems we have at our club and I'm well aware we're hardly the fan friendly local club anymore, but still... I don't want to go down the route of Citeh and Chavs. I'd rather win less and choose the more difficult road to be honest.

g88ner I'm not saying I'm desperate for us to jump in bed with the first guy that puts his money on the table but the whole "changing the landscape thing" is a bit late - the landscape was changing 10 years ago, it is well and truly changed now.

You can't realistically expect to succeed without spending considerable amounts now. Bayern are able to bully the rest of the Bundesliga into submission with their financial clout and have absolutely cantered to the title last two seasons, Barcelona and Real Madrid spend phenomenal amounts, City and Chelsea are up there here and over the last few years United have only competed because they were willing to spend big bucks - the number of £15-30m purchases they've made over the past decade is quite astounding. Ferguson must have hated paying some of those sums (and wages) but knew it was an ugly necessity.

One way or the other we can't expect to win anything unless we spend. And if under Usmanov we do that, it's a huge positive against his name (although not only factor). And if I'm being honest I can't say I'd be proud and shouting from the rooftops if that money came from fleecing our own fans rather than his pockets.

I'm not against money in the game. To steal a phrase from our good Lord Wenger, it's financial doping I'm against.

Nothing wrong with working hard on and off the pitch to maximise revenue but sugar daddies adding to their "brand" (Etihad) or bored billionaires wanting a plaything isn't, in my mind, something to be encouraged. And for me, if I start wanting our club to be used as a billionaires dildo, then I'm basically endorsing it and I can't do that.

[northbank123]

And at the other end of the scale is an owner who views us solely as a cash cow and will actively prevent us from competing in order to line his own pockets when he decides to sell more palatable? I don't see this honour in fleecing the fans, generally whoring ourselves out for every penny we can then seeing it squandered away on an underperforming manager, too many shit players and a greedy owner.

Because for all the rhetoric those are the two options we have. Now that the shares have been clubbed together we are going to be in the hands of a majority owner, and they can all be broadly put into either of the two boxes. And I know which one I'd rather choose.

[g88ner]

And at the other end of the scale is an owner who views us solely as a cash cow and will actively prevent us from competing in order to line his own pockets when he decides to sell more palatable? I don't see this honour in fleecing the fans, generally whoring ourselves out for every penny we can then seeing it squandered away on an underperforming manager, too many shit players and a greedy owner.

Because for all the rhetoric those are the two options we have. Now that the shares have been clubbed together we are going to be in the hands of a majority owner, and they can all be broadly put into either of the two boxes. And I know which one I'd rather choose.

Agreed. Like I said, I'm not blind to the problems we have - and no, like the majority of fans, I don't like it. But equally, I'm not going to wish for a sugar daddy because it's totally at odds with my interpretation of fair play and sportsmanship and when you take those away, I think I'd feel rather awkward and uncomfortable at any "success" with have in the future.

So I'm between a rock and a hard place which is no fun place to be.

I don't doubt it'll happen eventually and I'm sure I'll still support Arsenal but Augie's question was "why are people against Usmanov" and that's my reason - it's totally at odds with my interpretation of fair play and sportsmanship.

[Chippy]

No.

[augie]

And at the other end of the scale is an owner who views us solely as a cash cow and will actively prevent us from competing in order to line his own pockets when he decides to sell more palatable? I don't see this honour in fleecing the fans, generally whoring ourselves out for every penny we can then seeing it squandered away on an underperforming manager, too many shit players and a greedy owner.

Because for all the rhetoric those are the two options we have. Now that the shares have been clubbed together we are going to be in the hands of a majority owner, and they can all be broadly put into either of the two boxes. And I know which one I'd rather choose.

Agreed. Like I said, I'm not blind to the problems we have - and no, like the majority of fans, I don't like it. But equally, I'm not going to wish for a sugar daddy because it's totally at odds with my interpretation of fair play and sportsmanship and when you take those away, I think I'd feel rather awkward and uncomfortable at any "success" with have in the future.

So I'm between a rock and a hard place which is no fun place to be.

I don't doubt it'll happen eventually and I'm sure I'll still support Arsenal but Augie's question was "why are people against Usmanov" and that's my reason - it's totally at odds with my interpretation of fair play and sportsmanship.

For the record I meant against usmanov as an individual rather than the whole concept of sugar daddies in which I agree 100% with you on.

The thing is g88ner, if we don't play by the modern day football practices then we are going to be left behind and that is a fact - the champion of the whole ffp bullshit (mr platini himself) has gone decidedly quiet on this proposal since two of his French clubs (especially psg) are making a mockery of the concept of FFP and I don't blame them one jot. The reality is, in my opinion, that we are more likely to see more and not less sugar daddies in football in the coming years once the realisation that FFP will never work beds in. Are you comfortable if we then start to slide into mid-table status if other clubs "recruit" sugar daddies ? Would you still be opposed to us having a sugar daddy even if top players stopped viewing us as a good club to join ? In other words what I am asking you, is if there is any point which you would accept a sugar daddy owning our club or are you dead against it regardless of the consequences cos it is easier to stand by your principles when we are still up where we are in the league but maybe a harder dilemma if the consequences are more severe ?

For the record I am not sure a citeeh or chav style sugar daddy is necessary for us - I would like usmanov to buy the club, replace the manager and put the 100m into the transfer kitty that he spoke about before. From there on in the necessity for a sugar daddy would be greatly reduced imo because we already have a hefty wage bill that we are sustaining so shouldn't need a constant injection of money to meet our commitments. We don't require the massive splurge on buying players like citeeh and the chavs did partially because we don't need as many players, but also because they needed to buy big to establish some credibility whilst we already are a recognised club with a history of successes going back almost a century. What we do need though, is an owner who is ambitious and ruthless in his quest to bring glory back to the club and is willing to put his hand in his pocket on the odd occasion if an injection of cash is required

[g88ner]

For the record I meant against usmanov as an individual rather than the whole concept of sugar daddies in which I agree 100% with you on.

The thing is g88ner, if we don't play by the modern day football practices then we are going to be left behind and that is a fact - the champion of the whole ffp bullshit (mr platini himself) has gone decidedly quiet on this proposal since two of his French clubs (especially psg) are making a mockery of the concept of FFP and I don't blame them one jot. The reality is, in my opinion, that we are more likely to see more and not less sugar daddies in football in the coming years once the realisation that FFP will never work beds in. Are you comfortable if we then start to slide into mid-table status if other clubs "recruit" sugar daddies ? Would you still be opposed to us having a sugar daddy even if top players stopped viewing us as a good club to join ? In other words what I am asking you, is if there is any point which you would accept a sugar daddy owning our club or are you dead against it regardless of the consequences cos it is easier to stand by your principles when we are still up where we are in the league but maybe a harder dilemma if the consequences are more severe ?

For the record I am not sure a citeeh or chav style sugar daddy is necessary for us - I would like usmanov to buy the club, replace the manager and put the 100m into the transfer kitty that he spoke about before. From there on in the necessity for a sugar daddy would be greatly reduced imo because we already have a hefty wage bill that we are sustaining so shouldn't need a constant injection of money to meet our commitments. We don't require the massive splurge on buying players like citeeh and the chavs did partially because we don't need as many players, but also because they needed to buy big to establish some credibility whilst we already are a recognised club with a history of successes going back almost a century. What we do need though, is an owner who is ambitious and ruthless in his quest to bring glory back to the club and is willing to put his hand in his pocket on the odd occasion if an injection of cash is required

I don't like it and I never will but football will run it's course whether I approve or not.

I just can't get excited about a billionaire taking over regardless of whether I think a £100m or £1bn "cash injection" is on the cards. In my eyes, it's cheating and that has no place in sport.

But luckily for you lot my influence in football is zero. The game will carry on on whatever path it chooses and I'll follow, albeit kicking and screaming.

I accepted that a long time ago. It's fine, but I fail to see how winning a trophy on the back of a "cash injection" from a sugar daddy can ever compare to the successes we've enjoyed over the years. And if it detracts from the achievement, you have to ask yourself what's the point of doing it?

But that's me looking at it from a football supporters point of view. If you're asking me how best to bring silverware in, I'd say Usmanov in, Wenger out.

[Swifty]

The team are doing well, over achieving beyond all our expectations, doing well to keep ahead of the chasing pack, but all I ever seem to see on this forum is negativity, moaning and 'pessimism'.

Is ANYONE actually enjoying following Arsenal this season?

I actually am on record in one of the prediction threads as saying we would be second to Chelsea and that Man U would be crap. So i would say we are at my expectations. Having said that i expected us to get knocked out of the FA Cup earlier so go us.
Overall i'm enjoying the season - apart from two specific games. In the interests of winning the league i don't think it would be bad if we got knocked out of the cup and UCL next rounds.

Fair question cookie!

[Swifty]

Further to the question being asked - does anyone find it sad that there is a significant degree of sadness about our current season notwithstanding that we are actually in good shape? On the other side I suspect Fulham supporters probably got more joy out of their draw with Man U that most Arsenal supporters will get all season (purely through expectation). Similarly I'd imagine Sunderland supporters are still on cloud 9 after their rout of Newcastle and Palace supporters are probably more excited about the prospect of staying up than we are of winning the league.
Sometimes i reckon our club is full of spoiled brats (myself included).

[GranadaJoe]

I wonder whether some of the lack of enjoyment, despite our position in the league is the lack of excitement in our game.

I don't think it's just middle age or nostalgia that makes me think we were a more exciting to team to watch a few years ago.
I remember leaning forward on tiptoe, screaming whenever Wrighty, TH14 or DB10 got the ball, genuinely exciting players. Also, one of the the most exciting parts of any game was when the winger (Cunningham, Barnes, Armstrong, even Bale) got one on one with the full back. Now whenever that happens you know our wide players will phaff about for a few seconds then roll the ball back to our fullback.
I really think our slow, tippy-tappy play is boring. There may be two or three moves each game when it comes off but for the other 88 minutes it's dull as dishwater.
I want us to win, but we shouldn't just be about the result. I watch the games because that what supporters do, but I yearn to see some pace and passion back in the team, to feel we're really going for it, not just science students watching Professor Wenger's latest experiment in same old same old.

[Gunner Rob]

I am sick of reading about and hearing how we are 2nd so stop moaning, still in 3 cups blah blah blah.

well how about that we are now in mid February and so far have not come close to beating any team which finished in the top 4 of the PL last season, and have just got beaten by Liverpool so comfortably they look set to overtake us this season.

we were top last week, now we are 2nd and in all probability with the fixtures coming up will finish in our usual 4th spot (if we are lucky) The saddest thing about this season has been how predictable it has been.
most of us know Wenger is incapable of winning the big games anymore and yet the club's spin machine would have you believe that we can actually compete for trophies. what a joke.

we were top for so long due to:
1) a very kind early season fixture list
2) new managers like Mourinho and Pellegrini settling in at their new clubs.

I dread to think what 2014/15 will be like

[Clash]

I wonder whether some of the lack of enjoyment, despite our position in the league is the lack of excitement in our game.

I don't think it's just middle age or nostalgia that makes me think we were a more exciting to team to watch a few years ago.
I remember leaning forward on tiptoe, screaming whenever Wrighty, TH14 or DB10 got the ball, genuinely exciting players. Also, one of the the most exciting parts of any game was when the winger (Cunningham, Barnes, Armstrong, even Bale) got one on one with the full back. Now whenever that happens you know our wide players will phaff about for a few seconds then roll the ball back to our fullback.
I really think our slow, tippy-tappy play is boring. There may be two or three moves each game when it comes off but for the other 88 minutes it's dull as dishwater.
I want us to win, but we shouldn't just be about the result. I watch the games because that what supporters do, but I yearn to see some pace and passion back in the team, to feel we're really going for it, not just science students watching Professor Wenger's latest experiment in same old same old.

I agree with everything you’ve said here.

I’m not one who wants pretty football taking priority over results. Results are always more important but if I am totally honest, I find us really dull to watch and have done for a long time! In fact most of our games this season (and I have seen them all) I have been bored out of my skull.

Even the good moments seem to take place in a sea of tedium. Take the Norwich game at home for example: 4 quality goals, the manager, players, pundits and opposition fans all drooling over the first goal. But the game itself was dreadful. The wins at Newcastle and Villa were awful games to watch too, as were the home wins against Cardiff, Fulham and Palace that followed it. It’s all very well saying it’s a sign of champions to win when not playing well but surely it shouldn’t be almost every time we play that we show those signs? Too often it feels like a chore watching us play, whatever the result.

I would also add that I don't like the high scoring games like last year’s 7-3 and 7-5 wins because it just looks amateurish. There are far too many of these ridiculous scorelines these days so to be fair, one thing that I do like is the fact that we seem to have cut out shipping so many silly goals against weaker opposition (long overdue) and that we look more professional in our approach.

But what I really want is a quick tempo, desire, aggression and effort to be part of our game every bit as much as good technique is. I want some pulsating football that gets me out of my seat. Technique on its own requires no emotion from the players. I don’t think Wenger has a clue about the emotion of football. That’s why he took Ox off against Man United minutes after we’d equalised a couple of years ago. He stuck to a pre-match decision which killed the atmosphere stone dead and I still think he is capable of doing something like that again because even to this day I don't think he realises that what he did then was wrong.

Our metronomic style of play doesn’t help generate an atmosphere either, more likely it sends people to sleep. If all I wanted to see was some high quality technique played in a hushed arena I’d watch fucking snooker.

I know people might dismiss stuff like this by saying ‘’2nd in the league and you’re still fucking complaining’’ and I accept there is some truth in that. But surely all fans need to see their team play with the same passion that they feel for the club themselves? We saw it against Napoli and in the 1-0 win against Spurs. That should be the norm, not the exception. Seeing the same well practised passing combinations played at the same walking paced tempo both home and away is too predictable and tedious.

Looking at the league table and seeing us sitting at the top of it is far more interesting than the games that got us there.

Wenger clearly likes slow technical football - perhaps because he spent a lot of time watching West German football in the 1970s? Has he brought this way of playing to Arsenal because it is the most successful way to play? Or just because it is his own personal preference? For me it’s the latter, even though it goes against the traditions of our club to play that way and even though it is rarely effective on the big occasions. Quite how we got to this after the scintillating football we played for the first half of his reign I don’t know.

We have made some improvements in certain areas this season but for me this is still far from being a real Arsenal team playing a real Arsenal way. It is still very much a Wenger team playing the Wenger way and I’m really bored of him and his philosophy.

[spendsum4uckingmoney]

I am enjoying not having to worry about us pondering the consequences of not finishing in the top 4. It's been stress free so far. I have also enjoyed out defence (apart from Liverpool/City) we have done well. Very refreshing.

Unfortunately I dont see us winning the league.