THE WENGER THREAD

[DB10GOONER]

I've never been able to watch a replay of the game

Nope, me neither. I've seen replays of the three goals in various forms over the years and I still have the game taped somewhere but I cannot watch it.

[1989]

I'd certainly have brought Bergkamp on for Hleb. Dennis would have given us that edge with his vision and creativity and I believe we'd deffo have had more opportunities to score with him on there. Let's remember this wasn't the great BarcaWhore side of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta - we held our own even with 10 men until the fresh legs of Larsson came on. Plus THBW14 had two sitters that he bottled. I think with DB10 on we'd have provided a couple more opportunities for him and the law of averages might have meant Henry finishing one of them. Or Dennis hitting the winner with a 30 yard screamer - which is how that poxy fucking final should have ended.

I still reckon their winner from that Belletti crunt was technically an own goal off the inside of the clown Almunia's leg. Watch it from the angle behind Belletti and tell me that shot wasn't going to scootch across goal and go out for a throw in on the far side...

Fucking game still haunts me...

Not sure what a 36 year old Dennis would have done in a game like that, with our backs to wall, we needed all the work rate and hard running that we could get and Dennis wouldn't have provided that. As for creating chances that's exactly what Hleb did in the second half only for Henry to completely bottle it one on one. What disappoints me most is how tame his effort was - straight into Valdes' hands . Also thought Hleb was one of our best players that night, along with Freddie, Sol and Gilberto. Hleb played his heart out that night.

[augie]

Yes I'm afraid despite Lehmann's idiocy, TH14's misses are without doubt my abiding memory of that night. I loved the bloke but it saddens me so much that that he didn't really show up in what I consider to be his biggest and last proper game for the club At the time what Wenger did or didn't do never crossed my mind all I cared about was seeing out that second half, and I haven't been able to bring myself to relive that night in my head or watch footage of it since

And at the risk of a backlash, can I suggest that you add that game to the list that includes the uefa cup final v the turks and all the fa cup finals he played for us

Sorry Augie, I know we all have our reservations about the CL in it's current guise and IMO it is THE very thing that is destroying this great club, or rather the obsession with the moolah it provides is. But, like it or not European Cup final is the most prestigious game in club football

Leyton, I'm not sure what I said that you are disagreeing with I have had enough people on here disagree with me over the years to recognise what they are disagreeing with me over, but I'm at a loss this time

[remigardeshair]

I've never been able to watch a replay of the game

Nope, me neither. I've seen replays of the three goals in various forms over the years and I still have the game taped somewhere but I cannot watch it.

Taped?

On betamax

[DB10GOONER]

I've never been able to watch a replay of the game

Nope, me neither. I've seen replays of the three goals in various forms over the years and I still have the game taped somewhere but I cannot watch it.

Taped?

On betamax

Who, or what, the fuck is a "betamax"?

[DB10GOONER]

I'd certainly have brought Bergkamp on for Hleb. Dennis would have given us that edge with his vision and creativity and I believe we'd deffo have had more opportunities to score with him on there. Let's remember this wasn't the great BarcaWhore side of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta - we held our own even with 10 men until the fresh legs of Larsson came on. Plus THBW14 had two sitters that he bottled. I think with DB10 on we'd have provided a couple more opportunities for him and the law of averages might have meant Henry finishing one of them. Or Dennis hitting the winner with a 30 yard screamer - which is how that poxy fucking final should have ended.

I still reckon their winner from that Belletti crunt was technically an own goal off the inside of the clown Almunia's leg. Watch it from the angle behind Belletti and tell me that shot wasn't going to scootch across goal and go out for a throw in on the far side...

Fucking game still haunts me...

Not sure what a 36 year old Dennis would have done in a game like that, with our backs to wall, we needed all the work rate and hard running that we could get and Dennis wouldn't have provided that. As for creating chances that's exactly what Hleb did in the second half only for Henry to completely bottle it one on one. What disappoints me most is how tame his effort was - straight into Valdes' hands . Also thought Hleb was one of our best players that night, along with Freddie, Sol and Gilberto. Hleb played his heart out that night.

Well, we'll never know, will we? The point is DB10 of all our players had that bit of magic in his arsenal that could have provided a game changing pass or strike on goal. Also, I don't agree on Hleb. I thought he played okay, but not anything special. Freddie, Sol and Gilberto were immense and I wouldn't rate Hleb's performance with theirs. My recollection is Hleb provided one proper assist for Henry (which Henry bottled) and Hleb missed a good chance himself by lashing his shot wide.

[Clash]

Not sure I go along with the belief that Henry 'bottled' the CL final ... or any of the other finals he played in for that matter. Personally I think he has been a bit unlucky in finals.

He had a point blank header save against Galatasaray (sp?) with what would have been a Golden Goal. Maybe he should have scored but it was also a good save. The overall team display and our pens were much worse than that miss.

A year later against Liverpool Henry was only denied a certain goal by a blatant fucking handball by Henchoz (sp?). Probably would have scored in the 2nd half too but for another clear handball. It annoys me when people forget this when having a dig at Henry for never scoring in a final.

He also more than played his part in cup final wins against Chelsea and Southampton despite not scoring. And just look how bad we played against Man United when he was out injured.

Then of course there is Paris. The keeper makes a fantastic reflex save from him in the first minute after a superb touch from Henry created the chance. Yeah he would normally have scored that 2nd half chance but hasn't he since said that he was exhausted and had nothing in his legs by that time? Remember we were playing with 10 men and he had probably put a lot more running in than he was used to. Maybe I'm being too generous but perhaps that's partly why he didn't strike it well?

Does not playing well or missing a good chance automatically mean bottling it? Its a fine line.

Just to get back on topic ( ) maybe it is Wenger who is the one bottles it and this effects his players?

Wenger's success rate in 9 finals is just 44%. Compare that to Graham's 80% from 5 finals.

[clockender1]

Or perhaps TH was just trying too hard.

I'm glad that at least DB10 agrees with me LOL.

[remigardeshair]

Wenger's success rate in 9 finals is just 44%. Compare that to Graham's 80% from 5 finals.

Interesting stats those -

I suppose looking at the finals that we have lost under Arsene maybe does tell a story

UEFA cup final - I'm not sure he bottled this one, we had good chances to win the game, Keown and Henry in particular, Petit and Overmars were total passengers for the game (heads already in Barcelona no doubt) - I'm sure I remember reading that Petit didnt make a tackle in the whole game.

FA Cup 2001 - Just plain bad luck, as stated above - I still think it was an odd decision to play Grimandi in midfield for that game though

CL 2006 - Again not sure he could be accused of bottling it, played for 10 men for the majority of the match against a very good side

LC 2007 - Could and should have picked a stronger side

LC 2011 - Pretty woeful really, possibly thought all we had to do was turn up and we'd win.

Looking at some of the sem finals we've lost might be more telling.

[OneBardGooner]

Can't Inspector Clueless understand if he were to go...99.99% of Gooners on this forum would be very happy...and a few such as Rodders would be ecs-feckin-static!

[Kvltman]

Got very depressed reading all the posts about Paris 06, who started it?

For me the Fabregas sub was the error, I am sure Wenger admitted as much in the years that followed.

[Sam59]

I remember Henry's miss even more than Jens's sending off, as crucial. Try not to think about the game though.

Gazidis has told a press conference in Barcelona that agents earn too much money from transfer fees. Looks like he and Wenger are on the same page when it comes to dealing with agents. Whatever you think of them (they seem "lovely human beings"), they are the reality. If they can't deal with them, we won't sign anyone unless they're really desperate to come to Arsenal. Do wonder how many players Wenger's missed out on due to his dislike of dealing with agents though.
(not getting into a discussion of what we all know ie managers and CEOs earning too much money for non achievement)

[clockender1]

I've never been able to watch a replay of the game

Nope, me neither. I've seen replays of the three goals in various forms over the years and I still have the game taped somewhere but I cannot watch it.

i watched the replay once.

It was like watching granny porn - you have to watch it, even though you don't want to and you know the ending. I felt dirty afterwards.

remi - we also absolutely scraped two of our wins - 1-0 against southampton and 0-0 AET against united.

I think if you go back and watch all the finals highlights in one sitting, you might find some interesting trends - like when we played with width and pace we won - Newcastle & Chelsea, and Wenger didn't make any changes or those he did muted the game, liverpool, united, birmingham, chelsea (again), Barca and we lost or scraped it.

so the question could be put, who really won those cups - Wenger or the brilliance of Overmars, Anelka, Ljunberg & Parlour ?

[g88ner]

I've never been able to watch a replay of the game

Nope, me neither. I've seen replays of the three goals in various forms over the years and I still have the game taped somewhere but I cannot watch it.

i watched the replay once.

It was like watching granny porn - you have to watch it, even though you don't want to and you know the ending. I felt dirty afterwards.

remi - we also absolutely scraped two of our wins - 1-0 against southampton and 0-0 AET against united.

I think if you go back and watch all the finals highlights in one sitting, you might find some interesting trends - like when we played with width and pace we won - Newcastle & Chelsea, and Wenger didn't make any changes or those he did muted the game, liverpool, united, birmingham, chelsea (again), Barca and we lost or scraped it.

so the question could be put, who really won those cups - Wenger or the brilliance of Overmars, Anelka, Ljunberg & Parlour ?

But surely most of the managers work is done outside of the 90 mins? i.e. he signs the players, he picks the team and he decides how the team sets up in terms of formation, style, etc.

So this notion that the manager didn't win the cup, but his players did, isn't fair and suggests someone is trying too hard to discredit the mans achievements.

Like it or not, without Wenger we wouldn't have assembled a team with Petit, Vieira, Anelka, Overmars, Freddie, etc. so I think he deserves a great deal of credit for the double in 1998 and the trophies that followed.

[SteveO 35]

I've never been able to watch a replay of the game

Nope, me neither. I've seen replays of the three goals in various forms over the years and I still have the game taped somewhere but I cannot watch it.

i watched the replay once.

It was like watching granny porn - you have to watch it, even though you don't want to and you know the ending. I felt dirty afterwards.

remi - we also absolutely scraped two of our wins - 1-0 against southampton and 0-0 AET against united.

I think if you go back and watch all the finals highlights in one sitting, you might find some interesting trends - like when we played with width and pace we won - Newcastle & Chelsea, and Wenger didn't make any changes or those he did muted the game, liverpool, united, birmingham, chelsea (again), Barca and we lost or scraped it.

so the question could be put, who really won those cups - Wenger or the brilliance of Overmars, Anelka, Ljunberg & Parlour ?

But surely most of the managers work is done outside of the 90 mins? i.e. he signs the players, he picks the team and he decides how the team sets up in terms of formation, style, etc.

So this notion that the manager didn't win the cup, but his players did, isn't fair and suggests someone is trying too hard to discredit the mans achievements.

Like it or not, without Wenger we wouldn't have assembled a team with Petit, Vieira, Anelka, Overmars, Freddie, etc. so I think he deserves a great deal of credit for the double in 1998 and the trophies that followed.

I agree. Just because we're all pissed off with Wenger its wrong that his earlier achievements are disregarded completely or simply down to the players. He's just a guy completely unsuited to the post Abramovich era of money buys success; its against his prinicples and rather than swallow it up like Ferguson did and move with the times he sticks to an outdated notion that buying cheap will one day blossom into success. People now look back at the GG era with rose tinted specs, but he went the same way.....achieving great success in the old Division 1 days pre-Sky money buy plucking the likes of Dixon, Bould, Winterburn etc up from the likes of Stoke and Wimbledon, but couldn't cope with the era of £5m+ transfer fees and the influx of foreign stars

Both men stuck rigidly to the formulas that brought early success but were unable to adapt to changing times

Sad really