THE WENGER THREAD

[Theoperator]

Hmmm, not sure I buy some of that, quite a lot actually. Especially the "No talent in the transfer window being available". Thats pure AW speak, welcome but sad youve been taken in.

In the January transfer window we saw Jelavic and Long transferred to Hull, Odemwinge and Kenwyn Jones exchange clubs. Whilst none really set things on fire all 4 would have been a better bet than Sanogo, unproven and as yet still to actually do the decent thing and get the ball in the net. The Jan transfer window prooves beyond arguement that the club is an embarrasment when it comes to transfers, especially following on from the start of season window....

Honestly if Arsenal scouts couldn't find strikers better than Sanogo, Kenwyn Jones and Jelavic they should be fired.

Do you really see Jelavic in Arsenal red and white, why replace poor strikers with slightly less poor strikers?

You are completely missing my point, the statement made was that "the only problem being that the transfer market over the summer and in January was pretty feckin' dire in terms of the talent on offer" Whist I agree Long Jalavic Odemwinge and Jones arent the best at least they are more likely to get the ball into the net, or do you think that one day somehow Sanogo will do better than them. I was merely using them to point out that the statement was just daft, yes there were others moving in Jan, Berbatoff among others.

[the playing mantis]

OK, this is going to be an interesting one. I'll admit I followed PhunckyTimes over from the Graun, not least because he's developed an unerring habit of getting the last word in before they close comments on an article.

First off, I'm not a slavish devotee of AW by any stretch of the imagination - what I do believe is that from where I see things, he's currently a lot better than any alternatives I can think of, and he's got a lot more stick than he really deserves.

So - bit of Devil's Advocate. We know that when the club settled on Ashburton Grove as the new location, it'd leave them with serious money issues, and the board agreed with Wenger that to try and minimise the hit, the squad would have to get new blood from younger players - wage bills aside, massive one-off transfer fees were not going to happen until the stadium costs were offset by something else. In short, they were asking Wenger to try to build a squad with one hand tied behind his back indefinitely - and most managers in the modern mould would likely have walked at that point. AW actually had the cojones to give it a go, when he could quite easily have gone back to the continent and taken his pick.

The sponsorship deal inked just before this season finally removed that restriction - the only problem being that the transfer market over the summer and in January was pretty feckin' dire in terms of the talent on offer. If you don't believe me, consider that the Spuds spent around £100M in that window and got bugger all out of it - they've been nowhere this season. Whatever AW tells the press, what actually seems to have stayed his hand striker-wise was that there was no-one remotely decent worth buying (at least no-one who would work within the squad).

Sure, Sanogo hasn't lived up to assurances - but on the other hand I saw our support giving AW hell for taking Poldi off against West Ham in the semi and keeping Sanogo on - but Poldi (still recently back from injury) was obviously not 100% even at the start of that match. Poldi then takes a central role in annihilating Hull the following week - a pretty good argument that taking him off against West Ham was the right call.

If AW's preferred methods end up limiting defence, then fair enough - but I'd argue that by bringing Steve Bould into the coaching team, he's aware of that limitation and trying to get things balanced.

Winning the league when the other top 3 sides are bolstered by a blank chequebook for transfers (and you're forced to watch the pennies) was always going to be an impossible task. You can talk about Everton and Liverpool's success this season, but neither of those teams have been in Europe this time round - and both teams are clearly flagging towards the end. Next year they'll have a much tougher time.

The away defeats were rotten, but to be honest pretty much every team in top-four contention has had at least one major embarrassment away (most have had more) - City's away form has been particularly shocking when you think about the money spent on the squad. And our squad has usually come back stronger after each knock - such as after going down 5-1 to Liverpool, we knock them out of the FA Cup the following week. More to the point, the recent away defeats happened with most or all of our top-drawer midfield players out to injury, and yet we still took points off Man City and hung on against West Ham to make the FA Cup final. As they came back from injury, our games have been much more solid, and in the same period of time we've seen Chelsea, Liverpool and Everton humbled by Palace.

If we can lift the FA Cup (amen), then that's the old "silverware" albatross banished - and if we can manage that it's looking likely to be made sweeter by Mou coming away completely empty-handed. A decent hand in the transfer window could see us looking very strong next year - no lynchpin players are itching to go, and we've got a 90%-there squad already.

So - while I'm not blindly trusting in Arsene, I do think that we should give him a year or two to finish the job he took on - which was a pretty thankless bloody task - and even if you disagree, who do you think would be both willing to replace him and capable of doing better?

baaa baaa

explain no strikers. explain years of almunia as no 1. explain constant contract extensions for the likes of diaby, djorrou and wage rises for unproven players. explain parks signing. explain gervinho, explain bendner still being at the club. explain lack of tactics. explain no preparation of opposition teams. i could go on but those more articulate than me can undrmine everything you wrote.

[the playing mantis]

Hmmm, not sure I buy some of that, quite a lot actually. Especially the "No talent in the transfer window being available". Thats pure AW speak, welcome but sad youve been taken in.

In the January transfer window we saw Jelavic and Long transferred to Hull, Odemwinge and Kenwyn Jones exchange clubs. Whilst none really set things on fire all 4 would have been a better bet than Sanogo, unproven and as yet still to actually do the decent thing and get the ball in the net. The Jan transfer window prooves beyond arguement that the club is an embarrasment when it comes to transfers, especially following on from the start of season window....

Honestly if Arsenal scouts couldn't find strikers better than Sanogo, Kenwyn Jones and Jelavic they should be fired.

Do you really see Jelavic in Arsenal red and white, why replace poor strikers with slightly less poor strikers?

You are completely missing my point, the statement made was that "the only problem being that the transfer market over the summer and in January was pretty feckin' dire in terms of the talent on offer" Whist I agree Long Jalavic Odemwinge and Jones arent the best at least they are more likely to get the ball into the net, or do you think that one day somehow Sanogo will do better than them. I was merely using them to point out that the statement was just daft, yes there were others moving in Jan, Berbatoff among others.

yep ion the whole of world football there was no better option available than the postman! thats why AW scrambled for striker at 11.59 on the 31st Jan....

[turricaned]

So because the scum spent big and failed, we shouldn't bother spending in a bid to improve ?

No, but the fact that they spent big in the most recent transfer windows and got sweet FA out of it does indicate that if we'd spent in the same windows we wouldn't have got much out of it either, does it not?

I think you jumped the shark with this one I'm afraid, why is it we are continully demolished away at title challengers? To finish 4th in a three-horse race, and after being top for well over 4 months, is pretty poor.

Our squad this year was based around an inventive attacking midfield - all of whom were injured for Stamford Bridge, most of whom were injured at Anfield - earlier in the season we went to the Etihad only three days after playing away to Napoli and still managed to put three past them. Take any one of Sturridge, Suarez, Henderson, Hazard and Eto'o out of play in the opposing teams and they'd have been as screwed as we were.

(Man City, of course, effectively have two complete 1st XIs in their squad, though UEFA have just pulled them up for it...)

You talk of Chelsea, Liverpool and Everton being humbled by Palace? Well we were humbled by all of the first three.

They all had complete squads against Palace - we were down our best players against them.

...yes there were others moving in Jan, Berbatoff among others.

Are you having a Turkish?! A striker in the fag-end of his career who had half a decent season with Man U four years ago?

explain no strikers.

We've got four. One more would help, but he'd have to be good.

explain years of almunia as no 1. explain constant contract extensions for the likes of diaby, djorrou and wage rises for unproven players. explain parks signing. explain gervinho, explain bendner still being at the club.

I did - sod-all money for one-off transfer fees over a period of 10 years.

explain lack of tactics. explain no preparation of opposition teams.

How you can claim lack of tactics when shown the lovely interplay between Özil, Ramsey and Poldi against Hull and Newcastle recently I don't understand. And if preparing stats and dossiers on other teams was the be-all and end-all, then any team managed by Tony Pulis would be top of the PL. Not that I'm knocking the lovely job he's done this season, but we've beaten Guardiola's Barca, Klopp's Borussia Dortmund and Heynckes' Bayern Munich without dossiers after all...

Im NOT saying that we should necessarily have spent big, just spent SOMETHING, and do some sensible things, The Higuain debacle, 1p over Suarez release clause, last minute loan of a midfielder with a broken a
back, all are rather embarassing dont you think

Not really - Higuain has scored 24 times for Napoli this season, only two more than Giroud has for us. I don't think the Suarez offer was particularly serious - in fact if I were Wenger I'd have been inclined to sound it out just to shut the doubters up. Not to mention the fact that however well the guy can play on occasion, his attitude makes my skin crawl.

[BFG4]

OK, this is going to be an interesting one. I'll admit I followed PhunckyTimes over from the Graun, not least because he's developed an unerring habit of getting the last word in before they close comments on an article.

First off, I'm not a slavish devotee of AW by any stretch of the imagination - what I do believe is that from where I see things, he's currently a lot better than any alternatives I can think of, and he's got a lot more stick than he really deserves.

So - bit of Devil's Advocate. We know that when the club settled on Ashburton Grove as the new location, it'd leave them with serious money issues, and the board agreed with Wenger that to try and minimise the hit, the squad would have to get new blood from younger players - wage bills aside, massive one-off transfer fees were not going to happen until the stadium costs were offset by something else. In short, they were asking Wenger to try to build a squad with one hand tied behind his back indefinitely - and most managers in the modern mould would likely have walked at that point. AW actually had the cojones to give it a go, when he could quite easily have gone back to the continent and taken his pick.

The sponsorship deal inked just before this season finally removed that restriction - the only problem being that the transfer market over the summer and in January was pretty feckin' dire in terms of the talent on offer. If you don't believe me, consider that the Spuds spent around £100M in that window and got bugger all out of it - they've been nowhere this season. Whatever AW tells the press, what actually seems to have stayed his hand striker-wise was that there was no-one remotely decent worth buying (at least no-one who would work within the squad).

Sure, Sanogo hasn't lived up to assurances - but on the other hand I saw our support giving AW hell for taking Poldi off against West Ham in the semi and keeping Sanogo on - but Poldi (still recently back from injury) was obviously not 100% even at the start of that match. Poldi then takes a central role in annihilating Hull the following week - a pretty good argument that taking him off against West Ham was the right call.

If AW's preferred methods end up limiting defence, then fair enough - but I'd argue that by bringing Steve Bould into the coaching team, he's aware of that limitation and trying to get things balanced.

Winning the league when the other top 3 sides are bolstered by a blank chequebook for transfers (and you're forced to watch the pennies) was always going to be an impossible task. You can talk about Everton and Liverpool's success this season, but neither of those teams have been in Europe this time round - and both teams are clearly flagging towards the end. Next year they'll have a much tougher time.

The away defeats were rotten, but to be honest pretty much every team in top-four contention has had at least one major embarrassment away (most have had more) - City's away form has been particularly shocking when you think about the money spent on the squad. And our squad has usually come back stronger after each knock - such as after going down 5-1 to Liverpool, we knock them out of the FA Cup the following week. More to the point, the recent away defeats happened with most or all of our top-drawer midfield players out to injury, and yet we still took points off Man City and hung on against West Ham to make the FA Cup final. As they came back from injury, our games have been much more solid, and in the same period of time we've seen Chelsea, Liverpool and Everton humbled by Palace.

If we can lift the FA Cup (amen), then that's the old "silverware" albatross banished - and if we can manage that it's looking likely to be made sweeter by Mou coming away completely empty-handed. A decent hand in the transfer window could see us looking very strong next year - no lynchpin players are itching to go, and we've got a 90%-there squad already.

So - while I'm not blindly trusting in Arsene, I do think that we should give him a year or two to finish the job he took on - which was a pretty thankless bloody task - and even if you disagree, who do you think would be both willing to replace him and capable of doing better?

As I always like to do when I am talking to an AKB, I would like a well thought of explanation, as to why Wenger waited until the final day of the January transfer window to attempt to sign a striker, when he knew we needed one last summer, and had seen Walcott get injured during January, and how the man who supposedly works night and day to bring the best talent possible to the club, managed to come up with Kim kallstrom? How can you honestly defend Wenger on that issue?

[turricaned]

As I always like to do when I am talking to an AKB, I would like a well thought of explanation, as to why Wenger waited until the final day of the January transfer window to attempt to sign a striker, when he knew we needed one last summer, and had seen Walcott get injured during January, and how the man who supposedly works night and day to bring the best talent possible to the club, managed to come up with Kim kallstrom? How can you honestly defend Wenger on that issue?

Who said I'm an AKB? I don't think he should go yet (not least because to my mind there's no-one available to take over next season who could do the job as well, let alone better), but I don't think the guy's omnipotent!

Read my other posts - I can't think of any really good strikers worth having who were up for a move in Jan. Who'd you have in mind? Please tell me you can come up with better than Berbatov. Kallstrom was on loan in the event of needing more depth in midfield - no harm, no foul.

[MrT]

As I always like to do when I am talking to an AKB, I would like a well thought of explanation, as to why Wenger waited until the final day of the January transfer window to attempt to sign a striker, when he knew we needed one last summer, and had seen Walcott get injured during January, and how the man who supposedly works night and day to bring the best talent possible to the club, managed to come up with Kim kallstrom? How can you honestly defend Wenger on that issue?

Who said I'm an AKB? I don't think he should go yet (not least because to my mind there's no-one available to take over next season who could do the job as well, let alone better), but I don't think the guy's omnipotent!

Read my other posts - I can't think of any really good strikers worth having who were up for a move in Jan. Who'd you have in mind? Please tell me you can come up with better than Berbatov. Kallstrom was on loan in the event of needing more depth in midfield - no harm, no foul.

Lord have mercy, you Arsene worshippers are extremely boring to listen to at this point but I'll entertain this slight sliver of steaming bullshit. Who says there is no one available? You? How could you possibly know that? Money talks, offer a manager double (which still wouldn't scrape what Wenger is raking in) and they will seriously consider their position. What top level manager wouldn't jump at the chance to take over a massive global club, with a huge bank balance and world class infrastructure?

How much worse could it get under a new manager? Not win anything for 9 years? Oh wait...

[TurnipMasher]

My Arsenal News Review letter on why Wenger does not prepare pre-match dossiers on our opponents.

http://www.arsenalnewsreview.co.uk/inde ... yer-s-mind

Very interesting insight Quartz, great post.

[augie]

So because the scum spent big and failed, we shouldn't bother spending in a bid to improve ?

No, but the fact that they spent big in the most recent transfer windows and got sweet FA out of it does indicate that if we'd spent in the same windows we wouldn't have got much out of it either, does it not?

[/quote]



Clearly you are either an idiot or on the wind up

[mcdowell42]

so spurs bought shit means we would have bought shit as well.

[northbank123]

Fella you are basically quoting from the Wenger handbook. Just because no class players are begging us to sign them at a cut price it doesn't mean there aren't any quality players available. He just doesn't think we need them and doesn't want to pay the going rate.

And he has undoubtedly prioritised Sanogo over signing a new striker. He has said in both windows and on numerous occasions throughout the season in response to questions about a new striker that we have Sanogo and he will play a part this season.

And scraping above Spurs doesn't justify spending 50mil more than them on wages. There have been financial constraints in relation to City and Chelsea but that indicates we have been spunking away a horrific sum every year on a bloated wage bill which massively devalues the 'best job within the constraints' point of view.

To be honest your points are the same ones that are chucked around without thought on here all the time. Everyone below us would love to be where we are? That's probably the hallmark comment of a moron mate, zero perspective. And as I predicted you are very enthusiastic about the future and what this squad can achieve, but once we blow it for another year it soon becomes 'it's impossible to win the league anyway'. Just like 'judge him in May' gets rolled out every season - except this one. You will still be saying exactly the same in two years time, five years time, ten years time, as long as he fancies staying...

[SteveO 35]

Welcome aboard Turricaned. Pay no attention to the ungrateful bastards on here who should be careful what they wish for

ONE ARSENE WENGER.......THERE'S ONLY ONE ARSENE WENGER

[DB10GOONER]

Especially the "No talent in the transfer window being available". Thats pure AW speak, welcome but sad youve been taken in.

By whom? I don't recall AW saying that - nor anyone else.

In the January transfer window we saw Jelavic and Long transferred to Hull, Odemwinge and Kenwyn Jones exchange clubs. Whilst none really set things on fire all 4 would have been a better bet than Sanogo, unproven and as yet still to actually do the decent thing and get the ball in the net.

Sanogo's unproven, yeah - but in Poldi and Giroud, we already have two strikers in the "pretty decent" mould - Walcott wasn't injured until later in January, so what would any of that lot have realistically been doing other than making up the numbers?

The Jan transfer window prooves beyond arguement that the club is an embarrasment when it comes to transfers, especially following on from the start of season window....

Again - Spurs spent big in that transfer market, where has it got them?

Jesus Christ that was a real slog to get through. Could spend hours dissecting it but I imagine it would fall on deaf ears...

Not at all - I'm listening.

Not a Wenger devotee but he's a lot better than any alternatives? Saying he is by far the best manager available sounds a bit like devotion to me.

So answer the question - which managers likely to be available to start next season do you think could do any better?

"Wage bills aside" - brush aside a point that completely rides roughshod over your entire argument? For the last few years we have been fighting tooth and nail to scrape above the Scum despite spending about £50m/year more on wages.

The point is we *did* stay above the Spuds - every time. Even when they had Bale.

Don't bother with any sort of partial defence of so many away dickings in one season, especially in the wider context of our record in big games in the last few years. It's ridiculous.

But this isn't the "last few years" - as I said. We aren't losing any significant key players (other than Sagna, but while he's good it's not like we can't cover for him). The squad is actually getting stronger as a whole, and we're looking good for at least a 50:50 chance of silverware and a very interesting season to come.

Keeping on a player who he has prioritised over signing a class striker (and has returned 0 goals) is vindicated as we scraped past a Championship team on pens (with him playing no positive role) and Podolski banged in a few against the Shammers after - what???

The latter wouldn't have happened if Poldi stayed on and hurt himself again, would it? Yes it was a gamble, and I had my heart in my mouth, but it did work.

He hasn't "prioritised" Sanogo "over signing a class striker" - there weren't any game-changing strikers on the market last year - not at the level we needed, anyway.

"Impossible" to win the league with City and Chelsea there? Grow up. Difficult yes, impossible no.

And ManU up until this season (though I reckon Fergie would have gone home with second or third at the end if he hadn't talked Scholes out of retirement).

Especially when you're citing progress and positives on one hand, don't then turn round and say it was never within our grasp anyway.

Er - I'm citing progress and positives *this season*. When we were fully fit we were top of the PL for a longer period of time than we have been in years.

I bet you weren't saying it was impossible in December.

With all due respect, I was saying just that in December - this season would probably be a test run for a decent assault on the title next year. We *might* have just been in with a shot if Ramsey, Walcott, Özil and Wilshere had remained match fit for the whole season, but not without that.

How many windows in a row have we been saying a few key signings could make a difference? It's not going to happen, never does.

The most recent windows were the first time for a decade where the board weren't keeping the purse-strings tight, and it just so happened that the pickings were slim. Hopefully they'll be better this time round.

Thankless job? Other than the £7m+ he pilfers every season?

My best mate is a Palace supporter, and he has said more times than I can think of that every team in the English football leagues below 4th in the PL would give their knackers to be in that position so consistently - hardly theft fro mthat point of view.

How long should he have to finish this job? It's always another 1 or 2 years, it's been nearly a decade now. He rightly had a huge amount of credit in the bank but he's been in the red for years now. It's a fucking endless job.

As I said - the financial position of the club vis. transfers right now is a world away from what it has been for the previous decade. If we don't at least come within a gnat's chuff of the PL title next year, then feel free to bury me in "told you so" - but I think it's worth at least one more round.

Other than that welcome to the forum.

Cheers - good to be here.

The positive spin. The disecting posts and replying individually to quote after quote.

HighburyJD - is that you back?

[kiwomya]

It's unfortunate that people can't really have differing opinions on here.

[Gunner Rob]

As I always like to do when I am talking to an AKB, I would like a well thought of explanation, as to why Wenger waited until the final day of the January transfer window to attempt to sign a striker, when he knew we needed one last summer, and had seen Walcott get injured during January, and how the man who supposedly works night and day to bring the best talent possible to the club, managed to come up with Kim kallstrom? How can you honestly defend Wenger on that issue?

Who said I'm an AKB? I don't think he should go yet (not least because to my mind there's no-one available to take over next season who could do the job as well, let alone better), but I don't think the guy's omnipotent!

Read my other posts - I can't think of any really good strikers worth having who were up for a move in Jan. Who'd you have in mind? Please tell me you can come up with better than Berbatov. Kallstrom was on loan in the event of needing more depth in midfield - no harm, no foul.

welcome to the forum - I'm afraid though that you are bit behind with the views of the majority on here.
nothing wrong with being a bit slow though - it took me until May 2012 to see the light. I am sure that you will get there in the end. In the meantime enjoy all the new signings that will come in this summer to herald Wenger's new contract