THE WENGER THREAD

[mcdowell42]

im convinced he is Arsene

[turricaned]

you have to admit this new guy is funny - he is coming out with excuses that even Wenger hasnt thought of

It's not an excuse - the market was pretty diabolical. Name one player bought into the PL top four in the last two windows that has made a positive difference.

how about if the board had showed some ambition and bought Suarez like they pretended to?

Aside from the fact that Suarez is a primadonna and a really nasty character that I'd have felt uncomfortable watching in our strip, how would he have fit in to the squad this season? The areas of the pitch in which he does his best are already covered by our attacking midfield - having him might have helped when the injuries bit, but could you see Suarez wanting to move just as a stopgap measure when he was already a must-have player in Rodgers' squad?

McD - I'm not Wenger. I'm not even 100% pro-Wenger. I'd just like to see some properly thought-through responses to the questions rather than just repeating "He's stale/can't do transfers/doesn't know tactics/doesn't write dossiers" (of which, arguably, only the last point is true).

Additionally, those who sing Mou's praises might like to note that his end-of-season document demands the reinstatement of Cole, and the retention of Terry and Lampard :
http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... mpard-cole

Now, whose thinking is stale again?

[northbank123]

@northbank123: You may not appreciate the sentiment re:Chelsea, but you yourself said in another post that Lampard "let us off" by hitting the bar, whereas Giroud's miss was a result of his being "a carthorse" - with all due respect, that sounds halfway to the kind of thing a Chelsea supporter would say.

I can't be arsed to take a hatchet to your entire post but this is an absolutley moronic statement. Down the rabbit hole stupidity.

Fuck off and support Chelsea NB123!

Why else do you think I'm calling for Cole and Terry in the England squad on the World Cup thread?? Come to think of it Ross Turnbull could do just as well as Ben Foster and Josh McEachren is twice the player Jordan Henderson will ever be.

[Gunner Rob]

Turrincaned,

Manchester City yesterday won the title.
last summer they still had a good squad but had the ambition to improve and therefore go and win trophies.
they purchased Negredo for £20million, Navas for £15million, and Fernandinho for £30 million.

they scored 102 goals compared to our 68.

where is the ambition at Arsenal to improve the squad and to win trophies? There is none. Arsene Wenger did an interview last weekend where he stated that he was proud to finish 4th. This weekend he has stated that he won't look to make any signings until after the World Cup.
Can you see why there is growing anger and frustration amongst the fanbase? we have not competed for the title beyond March for a decade.
it is time for someone else to be given a chance is it not?

[Theoperator]

Grrr, you keep repeating the Higauin stat but he played 9 less matches than Giroud for 2 more goals, a better stat may be Sanogo appearences with a total of zero goals. (As surely we would have kept Giroud too?)

As for the "no one available" stuff, players dont just "pop up to be available" they can be LURED by sensible (not 00001p bids mind you) offers. Is there NO ONE IN THE WORLD as a striker better than Sanogo? hows about making an offer?

As for The Chavs being disliked well so what I wouldnt care if the world their wife and their dog didnt like Arsenal so long as Gooners did AND WE ACTUALLY WON SILVERWARE

You are being ribbed as you do not seem to understand that simple fact, no other manager at any team would be tolerated after 9 trophyless years, and having seen the capitulation v Birmingham in The League Cup we can be far from certain of one this season.

As for the 7 points away from the title stuff, IF we had gone a replacement in or someone without a broken back in Jan (There was plenty of time) we would have had a better shot at it, the same- as IF we had actually got a striker in in either window those 7 points would have been eaten up.

Frustrated? yes, you bet I am.

[Clash]

When we pipped Liverpool to the League title in 1989, Graham had to come out of his comfort zone tactically, by playing a defensive sweeper system in the first half (which did close Liverpool down to some extent, but didn't give us much chances), then switching to a more aggressive 4-4-2 during the second half in which we scored twice (though very late in the case of the second goal). In short, even under Graham we didn't just aim to go one up, then stick two buses on the pitch like Mou did against LFC a few weeks ago - we actually had to come out and play for it. Far from "boring, boring Arsenal", that match is still considered one of the best and most exciting televised games of the era. See also the second leg of the Littlewoods Cup semi-final against Spurs in 1987 (which I remember taping and getting up two hours before school the next day so I could watch it).

This season, of the seven matches against the other top-four finishers we lost three of them, and beat Liverpool twice - so the idea that we can't beat any of them with the current set-up just doesn't hold water.

And don't you miss that at all? Those games where an Arsenal team had to show character, bottle and desire? A time when Arsenal had team and a manager that could get a result on the big occasion ... against arguably a more talented opposition side ... and on their ground?

If you experienced the Graham era, how can you tolerate the shite Wenger has been serving up for the last seven or more years? The repetitive, slow, passionless, predictable, mind-numbingly dull football that is good enough to get top 4 and to the CL knockout stages but no further.

You were raving about the intricate passing against the likes of Hull and Newcastle the other day. Does that really get you excited when it only happens early in the season when there is no pressure ... or in meaningless end of season games when yet another league season has been wasted?

I feel no pride or excitement watching us anymore. We are regularly humiliated in big games - the games that should get the blood pumping and the heart racing. So now they're just games I dread. And our players and manager look paralysed if there is any pressure on us (Wigan semi). Because of Wenger we now have a team that only turns up against weak sides. Or when as a contest the tie is over (i.e. Milan, Bayern Munich x2).

Where is the passion? What are we meant to get passionate about?


P.S. you must have been made to go to bed early in 1987 because that 2nd leg was played at about 3pm on a Sunday afternoon. I presume you mean the replay?!

[Theoperator]

Manchester City yesterday won the title.
last summer they still had a good squad but had the ambition to improve and therefore go and win trophies.
they purchased Negredo for £20million, Navas for £15million, and Fernandinho for £30 million.

Thats impossible Rob, there was no one available, and we couldnt possibly have afforded Navas and Negredo, we only had £42 million in the kitty. Besides they were transferred BEFORE August- thats cheating as we all know the transfer window only pops open for signatures on the last day

Didnt we sign Navas once or twice for the virtual team anyway? Ah yes, now I remember wasnt he playing against BArnet and wasnt any good?

Oh, forgot to add up- £42million - 35 million= more money for the Suarez bid

[Clash]

He's only had a transfer budget worthy of the name since August 2013, and the market in those windows was not very inspiring. For example, I hear people giving AW stick over Higuain, but Higuain has only managed two more league goals than Giroud this season, and Higuain is not the kind of pacy striker who'd make a difference - at best he's somewhere between a Giroud and a Walcott in that regard.

Where is your evidence for this? Or have you just decided to believe that because it suits you to? To me, it just sounds like a very convenient excuse to defend Wenger's cowardice and lack of ambition when it comes to spending money. Spending money in a way that gets noticed that is.

What is often not mentioned is that since we last won a trophy Wenger spent over £750m just in wages. Is that something a manager who is ''financially restricted'' (as many like to claim) able to do? At the same time as mammoth annual wage bill, a cash reserve of well over £100m has been accumulated. If it is possible to do that but not have a transfer budget worthy of the name then somebody somewhere is seriously fucking up what our money is being spent on.

I think the money has been there for years. It must have been. Wenger not spending is not proof he was not allowed to spend. Anyone believing that is being far, far too kind to Wenger.

How strange though that even though many claim that Wenger suddenly had funds for the first time in the summer of 2013 .. he still waited until 40 mins before the deadline before spending any of it.

And just imagine if Man United had come in for Ozil late on and he decided to go there ... people would be bleating on about us not having money still. This tedious cycle of bullshit and excuses is never-ending

[turricaned]

And don't you miss that at all? Those games where an Arsenal team had to show character, bottle and desire? A time when Arsenal had team and a manager that could get a result on the big occasion ... against arguably a more talented opposition side ... and on their ground?

I'd say we've done that against Borussia, Bayern and Barca - as well as Liverpool in the FA Cup this year when we were on our chinstraps and they were supposedly in the ascendancy.

If you experienced the Graham era, how can you tolerate the shite Wenger has been serving up for the last seven or more years? The repetitive, slow, passionless, predictable, mind-numbingly dull football that is good enough to get top 4 and to the CL knockout stages but no further.

I guess we must have been watching different teams, because I see no lack of passion when we're on form. People seem to forget that the Graham era ended with us 12th in the PL in his last complete season, followed in short order by his being sacked in disgrace for taking bung money.

You were raving about the intricate passing against the likes of Hull and Newcastle the other day. Does that really get you excited when it only happens early in the season when there is no pressure ... or in meaningless end of season games when yet another league season has been wasted?

But without the injuries it would have happened all season - even the pundits who have no love of us have said as much. Yes, AW takes some responsibility for playing Ramsey more than perhaps he should at the start of the season, but after Özil's return from injury, those recent matches show that he's capable of taking some of the load from Ramsey's shoulders in future if necessary.

I feel no pride or excitement watching us anymore. We are regularly humiliated in big games - the games that should get the blood pumping and the heart racing. So now they're just games I dread. And our players and manager look paralysed if there is any pressure on us (Wigan semi).

Three (admittedly bad) defeats out of seven games against the other top-four sides this season doesn't sound like regular humiliation to me - and in the case of LFC we learned from it and came back to beat them in the Cup match.

Even back in December I was saying that we'd be unlikely to hold the PL - especially if we had significant injury problems in our attacking midfield.

I presume you mean the replay?!

Indeed I do.

[begeegs]

The thing that I don't get is why does everyone who defends Wenger has to continually bring up finances. I think that it is widely accepted that he saw more value in paying youngsters wages and investing in youth rather than going out and buying established stars because of financial restrictions. However, that side steps the point that really of Wenger not being a great tactical manager because even with the squads that we have had in the past, we should have competed for the title with a tactical manager. And when I say tactical, I don't mean Mourinho - you don't need to be a negative tactician to win football matches. You just need to give a framework to work with to players.

It doesn't need to hamstring players into robots, but at the other end of the spectrum, you don't have players consistently bombing up the pitch and being caught on the counter or running around like headless chickens. You don't have a high line defense against pacey strikers or wingers. We also could score from set-pieces - imagine that!

Now - there are plenty of other reasons why he should be shown the door which other people have highlighted quite well on this forum, but this for me has been Wenger's biggest failing (out of his many) - adaptability.

[MrT]

Are people not bored of going back and forth with this wum? It's clear he's as deluded as you are going to get with an AKB despite him coming out with the corker, ''I'm not an AKB but...'' Doesn't matter how much logic, reasoning and facts you present he will find a way to ignore it.

[northbank123]

Vincent Tan wouldn't stand for this: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foot ... ng-7103377

[turricaned]

@Clash - as begeegs says, the ethos behind buying young and cheap, then selling high after giving the players experience is absolutely an accepted fact. The financial restrictions were primarily applied to transfer fees - the board essentially prevented him from buying in experienced players. Wages were less restricted, but even though our wage bill has been comparatively high, it has nevertheless been consistently dwarfed by that of Man U and Chelsea since 2004 and by that of Man City in the last few years. We spent marginally more on wages than Liverpool this season, but either they'll have to do some more spending in the coming months or they'll really struggle to repeat this year's PL position now they're in the CL.

On the subject of wages, what are City paying Negredo, Navas and Fernandinho - and would we have stood a snowball's chance in hell of matching it? FFP isn't just about clubs being able to outspend each other, the sticking point is over clubs with blank chequebooks using them to buy up top-flight players just to have them sit on the bench and therefore deny them to other clubs.

Look - I'm no fan of our board at the moment, and as far as AW goes I'm just on the sympathetic side of ambivalent. If Man U had picked up Özil because we'd bottled it on wages and the transfer fee, then rest assured I'd be on the opposite side of the fence. Though I should point out that according to the Umlaut himself, it was Wenger's taking a personal interest that persuaded him to join.

EDIT : @MrT - with all due respect, I'm not reading much in the way of logic, reasoning or facts, just the same two or three points repeated ad nauseam. AW *does* play defensively (he did just that against LFC in the Cup, as well as against the Spuds and others in the PL when we were down attacking players), he *does* alter playing style mid-game (LFC in the Cup again), and he *does* spend money on players when he has it (Özil - probably more coming soon as a result of his trip to Brazil).

[begeegs]

@Clash - as begeegs says, the ethos behind buying young and cheap, then selling high after giving the players experience is absolutely an accepted fact. The financial restrictions were primarily applied to transfer fees - the board essentially prevented him from buying in experienced players. Wages were less restricted, but even though our wage bill has been comparatively high, it has nevertheless been consistently dwarfed by that of Man U and Chelsea since 2004 and by that of Man City in the last few years. We spent marginally more on wages than Liverpool this season, but either they'll have to do some more spending in the coming months or they'll really struggle to repeat this year's PL position now they're in the CL.

On the subject of wages, what are City paying Negredo, Navas and Fernandinho - and would we have stood a snowball's chance in hell of matching it? FFP isn't just about clubs being able to outspend each other, the sticking point is over clubs with blank chequebooks using them to buy up top-flight players just to have them sit on the bench and therefore deny them to other clubs.

While it is accepted, it was because a player's wages and transfer fee comes out of the same kitty (allegedly), so it had to be done. However, saying that the board prevented him is disingenuous.Wenger chose to buy youth because it was cheaper to do so. He was then rewarded with a very high paying contract for him to become immersed into this 'project'.

That being said again - Wenger still falls down tactically, so even with a large chequebook, he'd still fail because he has no tactical game plan. So the financial argument goes out of the window, in my opinion.

[turricaned]

However, saying that the board prevented him is disingenuous.Wenger chose to buy youth because it was cheaper to do so.

Arguably, once the Grove project was decided on, it was the only thing that might have stood a chance of working. Not only that, but once the project had been settled, there was no feasible way of going back. Remember that in 2003-4, Abramovich had yet to make his mark on Chelsea, and City were still languishing somewhere between the Premier League and Championship. Man U had buckets of cash to spare, but there were no "plastic" clubs as we know them today.

That being said again - Wenger still falls down tactically

When and where (outside of the three defeats already discussed, which were more psychological than tactical SNAFUs)? He seems to have done fairly well this season, all told.

As for The Chavs being disliked well so what I wouldnt care if the world their wife and their dog didnt like Arsenal so long as Gooners did AND WE ACTUALLY WON SILVERWARE

Well, I guess that's summat you and I will have to differ on - not so much on the "being disliked" as on the "mercenary and boring to watch" front.

And we may get some silverware yet...