THE WENGER THREAD

[armchair]

Funny how earlier Stevie Bould was being blamed for the mentioned defeats. Now it seems to be psychological...?

No, I mentioned Bould because as assistant manager he knows a thing or two about defence, which would be a logical reason for his having that position.

Well, yes actually.
You mentioned Bould because it suited your piont at the time and deflected any blame from Wenger.
Then later because again it suited your point you decided to blame psychological weakness of the players and again it threw blame away from Wenger.

Thats what happens when people make stuff up. Its hard to keep track of it all.

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

That being said again - Wenger still falls down tactically

When and where (outside of the three defeats already discussed, which were more psychological than tactical SNAFUs)? He seems to have done fairly well this season, all told.

You don't need specific examples because the following should be pretty familiar to you and everyone here.

We set up exactly the same with the same times of substitutions nearly every game with the notable exception of when we are chasing a game and occasionally when we are trying to shut up shop. When we don't play quick passing, our attacking play becomes pedestrian - Cardiff at home was a prime example this year and it was against lowly opposition.

I wouldn't pin the heavy defeats as psychological because that is absolving Wenger's tactics. Notably - the ridiculously high line that we played against pacey wingers and strikers. Psychological would be the games immediately following the heavy defeats - the 0-0 with Utd (which was also tedious) and the 0-0 with Chelsea (ditto) when we were trying to keep shape and not lose the game. As we have no width due to no natural wingers, we have to bomb our fullbacks on. This is fine against teams that are further down the table, but not against the big boys. Against better teams, we get hit on the counter because managers know this and it is easy to combat against because Wenger never varies in his approach.

That is what I mean by lack of tactics. Even with injuries, we lines up exactly the same. Now look at Tony Pulis (I am not saying that we should have him), but here is a quote from him recently when he took on the Palace job - "We looked at what qualities we had and struck on a system. There were lots of meetings about what we were trying to do, but the most important thing was ironing everything out on the training ground so everybody knew their role. Wherever the ball is they know where they should be, they have to be there and if they're not there it will cause problems."

Do you think that happens at Arsenal?

But has Pulis ever managed a team to a position above a Wenger Team?

Not saying there isnt merit, but Pulis tactics will only get you so far - and certainly dont compete consistently with the very best teams.

[turricaned]

You mentioned Bould because it suited your piont at the time and deflected any blame from Wenger.
Then later because again it suited your point you decided to blame psychological weakness of the players and again it threw blame away from Wenger.

Funny how you presume to know my train of thought based on the incorrect assumption that I'm purely trying to cover for AW.

The point I was making regarding Bould was that his hiring as AM seems to have been in response to calls to shore up our defensive nous. Regarding the away defeats I said *explicitly* that while I believe the final scorelines to be a result of psychological disarray, the initial goals against us were a result of tactical miscalculations, in which Wenger indeed got things wrong.

Like I said, I'm sympathetic to AW, but I'm not saying he's blameless!

[armchair]

Regarding the away defeats I said *explicitly* that while I believe the final scorelines to be a result of psychological disarray, the initial goals against us were a result of tactical miscalculations, in which Wenger indeed got things wrong.

Amen brother. At last.

[turricaned]

I'd still have him over Rodgers, Martinez or (especially) Mou in a *heartbeat* though. All of whom have made just about as many tactical miscalculations this season.

[armchair]

Funny how you presume to know my train of thought based on the incorrect assumption that I'm purely trying to cover for AW.

But thats exactly what you've been doing consistently since you joined the forum - offering excuses and blaming everything except Wenger. Even the weather ffs!

[turricaned]

Er - no - that's what you've been reading into it based on the fact that I'm not willing to join in the hatefest.

[armchair]

I'd still have him over Rodgers, Martinez or (especially) Mou in a *heartbeat* though. All of whom have made just about as many tactical miscalculations this season.

I like how Wenger supporters like to talk about this seasons miscalculations or that games weather or this refs performance or that incident when we had bad luck.
Everything can be explained away by doing that. Just completely disregard or minimise all that has gone before and the notion that there is a recurring pattern and explain away everything one at a time and hope nobody notices.

[QuartzGooner]

Regarding the Suarez talk - when the guy was on the verge of throwing his toys out of the pram last year he said himself that he'd be interested in a move to Real or Barca, not elsewhere in the PL. Derisory or not, we did sound him out with an offer, and the ensuing silence was deafening.

Garbage.

He made it known he was open to a move.

Our bid was rejected by Liverpool's staff, very publicly and loudly, to the extent their owner Tweeted about it. They called our bluff on his contract clause.

here were lots of meetings about what we were trying to do, but the most important thing was ironing everything out on the training ground so everybody knew their role.
...
Do you think that happens at Arsenal?

It shouldn't need to, as our squad is technically far better. Come to think of it, we beat Palace twice, which is more than Chelsea and LFC did.

Again, what a load of rubbish.

Having technically superior players does not guarantee a win.
Little minor details such as organisation, training, morale, and practice might just play a part!

[turricaned]

Not really, just pointing out that he hasn't made more notable mistakes than his peers this season.

Speaking of which, this season does seem to have broken a few patterns - namely leading the league, no game-breaking departures from the squad and still potentially on for some silverware.

@Quartz : Google "suarez real barca", and you'll quickly realise that they were the only clubs likely to have prised him from Anfield in the last year (and even then, not without a fight from Rodgers). I also have very strong doubts that we could have just dropped him into the squad and had it make a difference to our PL chances.

[officepest]

Like I said, I'm sympathetic to AW, but I'm not saying he's blameless!

Why? Is it because the nasty petro-dolloars turned up and spoiled Wenger's little duel with Fergie? Or is it because wenger alone decided to take the hammer to the Invincibles and replace them with lesser players?

Perhaps it's becuase he's so underpaid and cannot help but running players whom he knows to be injured into the mythical 'Red Zone'? Maybe instead it is because he "cannot compete" with the "financially doped" clubs while he conveniently forgets to mention his time at Monaco, with the bona fide tax avoidance that went along with it.

The man is not up to the job anymore but our board will never have the balls to relieve him of his duties while the majority think as you do. No league title since '04 and no European Cup of any note despite qualifying for the Nth time in a row and we want to give him a pay rise?

[Theoperator]

Not really, just pointing out that he hasn't made more notable mistakes than his peers this season.

Speaking of which, this season does seem to have broken a few patterns - namely leading the league, no game-breaking departures from the squad and still potentially on for some silverware.

YET, but as most acknowledge its very likely that Sagna will leave us, and entirly possible that Pod will go too.
Leading the league was nice but it happened to be at the wrong time, so nothing really to celebrate as such and I suppose that until we were out we were in with a chance of silverware every season for years.

Afraid nothing so far that you say will persuade me that AW is doing a great job at the moment, good at times but not when it matters.

[turricaned]

Sagna's going - but he's hardly on the level of a Cesc or TH in terms of "must-have" status. I'm not saying Poldi won't go, but I'd be surprised if he did. The scuttlebutt a few months back was over a swap with Draxler, but that didn't come to anything. It's true that Poldi hasn't had his contract extended this year, but that may just be a "wait-and-see" move.

I'm not saying AW's done "great" either, but I do think there's been enough positive movement that to replace him would be premature - especially given the other options. I have nightmares about Kroenke announcing that we've secured AVB on a 10-year deal...

[QuartzGooner]

@Quartz : Google "suarez real barca", and you'll quickly realise that they were the only clubs likely to have prised him from Anfield in the last year (and even then, not without a fight from Rodgers). I also have very strong doubts that we could have just dropped him into the squad and had it make a difference to our PL chances.

We bid for him, that is on record.

And with 31 goals in 33 League appearances you have strong doubts as to whether he would have made a difference as to our chance of winning the league?
When we had Giroud exhausted in early spring and had to resort to the raw Sanogo up front?

[Theoperator]

Apart from Rambo Theo Ozil and Ox there isnt much left that is a "Must have" they keep being sold to our opponents and not replaced. Of those 4 Injury doubts perhaps still hang over 3 of them and it would be odd for Ozil to leave so fase. Cant really see that as an advance all in all, just a lack of resourses due to transfer ineptitude - oops sorry transfer resourse ineptitude