As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
goonersid wrote:On a purely football basis, if he came back we could fund the move by offloading "Jackie powder puff" especially if he has one good game at the world cup, then the English media will be creaming themselves, thus pushing up his market value.
goonersid wrote:On a purely football basis, if he came back we could fund the move by offloading "Jackie powder puff" especially if he has one good game at the world cup, then the English media will be creaming themselves, thus pushing up his market value.
Can't believe you said that...
Why?
Jack spends most games rolling around like a tart after being tapped. He hasn't really progressed since he first burst onto the scene. We can upgrade easily.
goonersid wrote:On a purely football basis, if he came back we could fund the move by offloading "Jackie powder puff" especially if he has one good game at the world cup, then the English media will be creaming themselves, thus pushing up his market value.
Can't believe you said that...
To be honest although Sid hardly beats around the bush and brings new meaning to the term "extreme views" I don't think it's necessarily a ridiculous thing to say.
What worries me about Wilshere isn't really him per se, it's that he doesn't seem to have a role in the team. Ramsey was the same until this season, and whilst you can't put his great improvement solely down to this it's undoubtedly due somewhat to operating in more of a box-to-box role and arriving late into dangerous areas. Half of the time Wilshere seems to run around like he's playing in an U12s match, chasing after the ball and then running down blind alleys half the time when he gets it. Considering the vast spectrum of opinion on him, I've not actually heard anybody tell me a role that he really prospers in.
I'm not saying I would be delighted to let him go or that he will never really kick on given his age. But given our strength in that area and the young ages of Ramsey and Ozil, if a non-rival came in with a really big offer and we had the option to buy Fabregas back I don't really see that as being so blasphemous. Or perhaps I am stretching Sid's words a little too far?
goonersid wrote:On a purely football basis, if he came back we could fund the move by offloading "Jackie powder puff" especially if he has one good game at the world cup, then the English media will be creaming themselves, thus pushing up his market value.
Can't believe you said that...
To be honest although Sid hardly beats around the bush and brings new meaning to the term "extreme views" I don't think it's necessarily a ridiculous thing to say.
What worries me about Wilshere isn't really him per se, it's that he doesn't seem to have a role in the team. Ramsey was the same until this season, and whilst you can't put his great improvement solely down to this it's undoubtedly due somewhat to operating in more of a box-to-box role and arriving late into dangerous areas. Half of the time Wilshere seems to run around like he's playing in an U12s match, chasing after the ball and then running down blind alleys half the time when he gets it. Considering the vast spectrum of opinion on him, I've not actually heard anybody tell me a role that he really prospers in.
I'm not saying I would be delighted to let him go or that he will never really kick on given his age. But given our strength in that area and the young ages of Ramsey and Ozil, if a non-rival came in with a really big offer and we had the option to buy Fabregas back I don't really see that as being so blasphemous. Or perhaps I am stretching Sid's words a little too far?
Injuries have been a pisstake so far but this is Arsenal's No.10 we are talking about
Fabregas, the same player you're advocating, said don't worry about him leaving us cos we have Jack Wilshere.
Jack Wilshere is also the same Englishman who got MOTM awards against Brazil last year at Wembley and against one of the best European sides of all time in that famous night at the Grove.
The same guy that showed any mettle against Bayern last year and at Anfield among the pathetic, lifeless performances that surrounded him.
Injuries have stagnated his progress and remember that this was his first full season after his debut season in 2010/11 season. He's still only just 22 and has got a decade of him at playing in the top level for the Arsenal as he's Arsenal through and through.
Wilshere in the current market is worth at least £20 million on talent alone; add the English tax and he's worth around £30 million. Why discard such an asset who's also yet to deliver when we've just witnessed the ascent of the Welsh Jesus?
You can't put forward the injuries excuse and then ignore it as an issue going forward. Wilshere has a problem with injuries, hopefully he will overcome it over time but there is a serious chance he might not.
And as I've said nobody can put forward a role he's excelled in over the last two seasons - care to offer one? I wouldn't want to see him go to a rival but 30mil? That's some serious wedge, could actually get a class DM for less than that which would be more of an asset than him.
And MOTM in an international friendly and marginally least-worst performer (arguably) in our 5-1 drubbing at Anfield isn't a particularly inspiring argument mate.
Have to say that I agree with nb123 when he says that wilshere doesnt have a specific role in the team - this is a feeling that I also had when cesc was with us cos for me, allowing for the undoubted talent that cesc wilshere and ramsey have, I'm not sure any of them could play in a traditional 4-4-2 sysytem and that formation along with 3-5-2 are the only systems that suits the players we have imo
I like jack and I really really hope he goes on to be a star for us. I cannot go along with the ginger manc's criticism of jack saying that he hasnt developed, simply because his last few years have been badly disrupted by injuries. That being said, I cant and wont go along with the "he's only 22 and has ten years ahead of him" defence of him - I'm sure a few years back people would have made the same excuse for diaby and yet many years down the line we are still witnessing a constant stream of injuries with him I'm not saying that we should be pulling the trigger on jack's stay with us just yet, but we do have to accept the reality that if he continues to be injury prone, a time will come where we (the club) will have to be ruthless and cut him loose as we cannot indefinetly (sp ) allow a diabyesqe scenario to unfold where 6 years down the line we would still be waiting for his career to kick off
Anyway I hope that it never happens as I like jack and would love it if he became world class with us
northbank123 wrote:You can't put forward the injuries excuse and then ignore it as an issue going forward. Wilshere has a problem with injuries, hopefully he will overcome it over time but there is a serious chance he might not.
And as I've said nobody can put forward a role he's excelled in over the last two seasons - care to offer one? I wouldn't want to see him go to a rival but 30mil? That's some serious wedge, could actually get a class DM for less than that which would be more of an asset than him.
And MOTM in an international friendly and marginally least-worst performer (arguably) in our 5-1 drubbing at Anfield isn't a particularly inspiring argument mate.
I've got to admit it wasn't my best argument.
Wilshere is a real talent and POTENTIALLY A WORLD CLASS PLAYER. Like Augie said, if he becomes a Diaby then let's cut off all ties with him and get rid of him. But he hasn't become Diaby yet, has he?
I say give him a chance instead of replacing Fabregas with him like you suggested.
His role in our current team? I don't know the answer to that but that's what Wenger's paid for.
The Fabregas thing has been doing my head in the past few days:
1) We obviously dont want to see Fabregas in a UTD shirt
2) But we already have a bunch of players who can play that position
3) Fabregas was excellent but since he left we have gained more points and play more direct
4) Ramsey is thriving and Fabregas may compromise that
5) We need a DMC. Fabregas is not a DMC
I hate to say it but there are more reasons not to sign Fabregas.
Yeah, he does definitely have a lot of talent and still has the potential to be top class, although that will continue to decrease every year. But it's a big if and 30 mil is a lot of money.
Apparently, Wenger blocked United's move for Fabregas last summer.
I don't like Fabregas and I won't forgive any player who goes on strike to force a move but he is a good talent and if we can get him then so be it but we don't need him.
Would rather Nasri. At least he doesn't pretend he's not a *word censored*.
On the Wilshire thing, he needs to man up. This so called hard lad look doesn't go to well when he's flopping about like a pansey after he's been tackled. I would love him to go on to be an Arsenal legends but if he continues this injury prone thing he's got over him he won't develope .
ATID Fabregas let himself and the club down in the last couple of months at the club but he carried us for years and didn't exactly "go on strike". We just didn't have the balls to hold him to his contract and tell him to suck it up.
And he's miles better than Nasri, not to mention the fact I doubt you'll actually find Nasri accepting he's a prick.
northbank123 wrote:ATID Fabregas let himself and the club down in the last couple of months at the club but he carried us for years and didn't exactly "go on strike". We just didn't have the balls to hold him to his contract and tell him to suck it up.
And he's miles better than Nasri, not to mention the fact I doubt you'll actually find Nasri accepting he's a prick.
Some call it feigning injury others call it a strike, either way you're right in saying the club failed to make him stick to his contract but that's because the club don't have a backbone when it comes to big stars and other clubs wanting them.
I also agree he carried the club at times but when he left he did it in a monumental wanker-esq fashion. Call me petty or whatever but I don't like it when players try to screw us over and get moves. Fabregas can claim he loves Arsenal all he likes, you don't sit back and let players of another club constantly harras you and your club about a transfer to their club.
I don't doubt he's better than Nasri, I was being a bit facetious there but if it were a choice between what we need out of the two in the summer I would go Nasri as I would say he is more adaptable.
northbank123 wrote:ATID Fabregas let himself and the club down in the last couple of months at the club but he carried us for years and didn't exactly "go on strike". We just didn't have the balls to hold him to his contract and tell him to suck it up.
And he's miles better than Nasri, not to mention the fact I doubt you'll actually find Nasri accepting he's a prick.
Some call it feigning injury others call it a strike, either way you're right in saying the club failed to make him stick to his contract but that's because the club don't have a backbone when it comes to big stars and other clubs wanting them.
I also agree he carried the club at times but when he left he did it in a monumental wanker-esq fashion. Call me petty or whatever but I don't like it when players try to screw us over and get moves. Fabregas can claim he loves Arsenal all he likes, you don't sit back and let players of another club constantly harras you and your club about a transfer to their club.
I don't doubt he's better than Nasri, I was being a bit facetious there but if it were a choice between what we need out of the two in the summer I would go Nasri as I would say he is more adaptable.
We had 4 great months out of Nasri in 3 years, for Citeh he has done it on the odd occasion but even with the difficulty of competing with the likes of Silva for a place he had consistently failed to stand out. Fabregas was sheer class pretty much week in week out for years. Nasri is even less of a winger than any of our other converted wide men, and can only really be used centrally as a luxury player and not as a CM. Whereas Fabregas can operate in the middle of the park or further forward.
And I don't know where you seem to have picked up this idea that everyone could see it was either a strike or feigning an injury? Pretty much everyone I know accepts he was injured but that his commitment did disappointingly wane. Fabregas is a bit divisive - as I've said before he let himself and the club down in his last few months, no doubt. But as I see it if the club weren't prepared to fight to keep him then what did they expect from him?
goonersid wrote:On a purely football basis, if he came back we could fund the move by offloading "Jackie powder puff" especially if he has one good game at the world cup, then the English media will be creaming themselves, thus pushing up his market value.
Can't believe you said that...
Non-Englishman gets bitter and twisted about Englishman going to World Cup.....who'd have thought it eh ?
Never mind - soon we'll be hearing the other myth about how the English media all think we're going to win the World Cup
I'm not saying that we should be pulling the trigger on jack's stay with us just yet, but we do have to accept the reality that if he continues to be injury prone, a time will come where we (the club) will have to be ruthless and cut him loose as we cannot indefinetly (sp 
) allow a diabyesqe scenario to unfold where 6 years down the line we would still be waiting for his career to kick off
