Jack Wilshere

[clockender1]

[

Maureen is going to see the same problem this year by building the chav team around Cesc - Deco could do it in Spain for him, but Cesc isn't going to be given time or space and like Jack can't hold his own.

Don't know why you say that: when Cesc was with us, he was unplayable at times and arguably the best CM in the league - he's never had a problem with the intensity/physicality of the PL.

We didn't win anything with Cesc, and he was protected by Edu and the Gilberto.

I think he could/can do the Caz /Ozil job as a playmaker but thats not where the chavs are playing him. Their left side looks very vulnerable - Hazard, who doesn't track back and Cesc who is lightweight. the chavs will have the same problem we do with playing both Caz and Ozil when they play both Cesc and Oscar - very prone to being hit on the break and an exposed left back.

its nothing against Cesc. I just believe he should play higher up the pitch.

Hardly. Fabregas and Edu played in the same team for one season. Gilberto left in 2008 and to be honest was a bit-part player and a shadow of his former self in 2007/08. Fabregas' level of performance during those years was brilliant for his age but (sadly) his Arsenal legacy will be carrying what was an otherwise average side from 2008 until early 2011, before van Judas picked up the reigns. He was consistently quality, during those two and a half seasons who else stood up for us? Yet we still stayed within touching distance of the top, mainly down to Fabregas.

edu+Gilberto+Flamini = 7 of Cesc's 9 years. last two years he lined up alongside mong.....

Cesc is a very very good player, but he needs a midfield enforcer alongside side imho. unless he plays the false No.1o i don't think he'll do much at the chavs - just like Barcelona.

[Chippy]

Wilshere (note spelling) thread.

[northbank123]

Ahh chucking in Flamini as well now? Fabregas really came into his own from 2007 and in the following 3 and a half seasons was absolutely class. For one of those he had a reliable DM - Flamini in 07/08.

I actually think he was played too high up the pitch at Barcelona and for Spain. He wasn't a Silva, Cazorla, Ozil-type luxury player who needs to operate in the space between the opposition lines and relies on twinkling feet, sublime dinks to unlock opposition defences and lightning-quick interchanges in seemingly confined spaces - although he was capable of those things on his day they weren't the bread and butter of his game. Taking nothing away from that kind of players because when they produce they will win points for fun, he just wasn't as well suited to it.

Fabregas was far more of a traditional CM, crude comparison would be Ramsey. Physically was able to hold his own in the middle of the park, could unlock defences from far deeper positions with an astounding range of middle-to-long range passing, obviously had great technical ability and reading of the (English) game and was deceptively quick which meant he could skip past opposition players to spearhead attacking moves with the ball at his feet or lose markers and arrived unchecked in the box. Similarly his composure in front of goal seemed to click all at once and he went from the occasional goal to having a golden goalscoring season.

I'm referring to his game in the past tense because I'm not sure how much the last few years with Barcelona has detrimentally affected him (if at all) and whether his style of play will be markedly different now. I really fucking hope it has frankly. Dunno, maybe I am romanticising how good he was for us? Just my memory/perception of his time here, especially as I think back to those years and can recall so few other positives.

[clockender1]

Wilshere (note spelling) thread.

my post was about jack - saying that like Cesc he's too small and slow to be a midfield playmaker, but can't shoot to be a more forward playmaker like Caz or Ozil.

the guy also obviously doesn't want to play DM, so i don't know why we force him to.

[augie]

Wilshere (note spelling) thread.

my post was about jack - saying that like Cesc he's too small and slow to be a midfield playmaker, but can't shoot to be a more forward playmaker like Caz or Ozil.

the guy also obviously doesn't want to play DM, so i don't know why we force him to.

cos le cock knows best

[SPUDMASHER]

Wilshere (note spelling) thread.

my post was about jack - saying that like Cesc he's too small and slow to be a midfield playmaker, but can't shoot to be a more forward playmaker like Caz or Ozil.

the guy also obviously doesn't want to play DM, so i don't know why we force him to.

According to a conversation I had with Sol Campbell a while back, AW is concerned about Jacks defensive abilities. He is therefore playing him in the DM role so he can improve in that aspect. The intention being to make him a more rounded player.

I think that is a strategy we have seen/heard about on several previous occasions. I think AW finds a players weakness then forces him to confront it by playing him in that role for a while. Unfortunately it is normally at the expense of the whole team. I can't say I agree with it in matches. This is something that should be confined to the training ground and is evidence of where AW clearly gets things wrong and costs us results.

[clockender1]

I think that is a strategy we have seen/heard about on several previous occasions. I think AW finds a players weakness then forces him to confront it by playing him in that role for a while. Unfortunately it is normally at the expense of the whole team. I can't say I agree with it in matches. This is something that should be confined to the training ground and is evidence of where AW clearly gets things wrong and costs us results.

yup. its crazy.

i mean, yes it worked with TH14 but that was TH14 - it killed Eboue's confidence, killed Gervinho's, and has done nothing for Walcott, Pod or Bentdner.

i know Jack and the others are very highly paid professionals, but they are human too and why would anyone expect a player to do their very best in a position they don't like ?

when you need cover in a position you bring in the squad utiltiy players or young talent (or god forbid, buy someone...) NOT sod about with one of your potentially best players game, so he can 'learn' the position during the season.

[VAVAVOOM 14]

Cesc is a very very good player, but he needs a midfield enforcer alongside side imho.

He has arguably the best enforcer in the league in Matic.

[LDB]

[

Maureen is going to see the same problem this year by building the chav team around Cesc - Deco could do it in Spain for him, but Cesc isn't going to be given time or space and like Jack can't hold his own.

Don't know why you say that: when Cesc was with us, he was unplayable at times and arguably the best CM in the league - he's never had a problem with the intensity/physicality of the PL.

We didn't win anything with Cesc, and he was protected by Edu and the Gilberto.

I think he could/can do the Caz /Ozil job as a playmaker but thats not where the chavs are playing him. Their left side looks very vulnerable - Hazard, who doesn't track back and Cesc who is lightweight. the chavs will have the same problem we do with playing both Caz and Ozil when they play both Cesc and Oscar - very prone to being hit on the break and an exposed left back.

its nothing against Cesc. I just believe he should play higher up the pitch.

Hardly. Fabregas and Edu played in the same team for one season. Gilberto left in 2008 and to be honest was a bit-part player and a shadow of his former self in 2007/08. Fabregas' level of performance during those years was brilliant for his age but (sadly) his Arsenal legacy will be carrying what was an otherwise average side from 2008 until early 2011, before van Judas picked up the reigns. He was consistently quality, during those two and a half seasons who else stood up for us? Yet we still stayed within touching distance of the top, mainly down to Fabregas.

I agree. When Fabregas was younger he could just about get around enough to be an effective conventional central midfielder but he's older now with a history of hamstring injuries, not convinced he can hack it there anymore which is where you'd think he'd play for the Chavs. It's why I wasn't fussed about us not re-signing him and I guess Wenger felt the same.

[northbank123]

Hardly. Fabregas and Edu played in the same team for one season. Gilberto left in 2008 and to be honest was a bit-part player and a shadow of his former self in 2007/08. Fabregas' level of performance during those years was brilliant for his age but (sadly) his Arsenal legacy will be carrying what was an otherwise average side from 2008 until early 2011, before van Judas picked up the reigns. He was consistently quality, during those two and a half seasons who else stood up for us? Yet we still stayed within touching distance of the top, mainly down to Fabregas.

I agree. When Fabregas was younger he could just about get around enough to be an effective conventional central midfielder but he's older now with a history of hamstring injuries, not convinced he can hack it there anymore which is where you'd think he'd play for the Chavs. It's why I wasn't fussed about us not re-signing him and I guess Wenger felt the same.

I do begrudgingly accept that fitting Fabregas into the side with Ramsey is not really feasible. Can't play both of them as CM without opening ourselves up for a defensive bumholing and shackling both from marauding forward from deep, which is a massive part of both of their games. As I said in a subsequent post, you could try Fabregas in the advanced role but he's not suited to it and personally Cazorla would be a preferable option in that role, never mind Ozil. And £30m is a lot to play for a squad player. Fabregas is 27 but has also played 2-3 years worth of first-team football more than others his age, and certainly towards the end of his time with us was developing niggly injury problems especially with his hamstring.

It still hurts to see him go to Chelsea though, not that I blame him. I just hold him in such high esteem for the passion and quality he showed in a period otherwise barren of both. Hopefully he'll be shit for Chelsea so I can remember him in that light.

[clockender1]

It still hurts to see him go to Chelsea though, not that I blame him. I just hold him in such high esteem for the passion and quality he showed in a period otherwise barren of both. Hopefully he'll be shit for Chelsea so I can remember him in that light.

well said.

we really are covered anywhere where he could play. it hurts to see him become a chav - like Petit hurt. but it would have been worse to see him at United.

given his wages, i can't see where else he could of gone - Bayern or Juve maybe ?

Jack will be the same when he goes - i think he'll go to Chelsea too - directly or even via a short spell in Spain or Italy, and to be honest i think a loan out in France, Italy or Spain where the players culture is much less alcohol orientated might help his career focus.

he has so much to do though, to elevate himself to a standard high enough to deserve a starting spot - 1)improve his vision & awareness on the pitch, 2) quicker decision making 3) more accurate and quicker when passing forwards, 4) his shooting is dire 5) improve his balance and body strength - zola was tiny, it didn't stop him.

Jack maybe only 22, but does he deserve to be in ahead of Caz, Ozil, Rambo ???? i don't think so. but he needs playing time and that shouldn't be at the cost of our title aspirations given the high ticket prices we pay and so long without a league title.

[p206ab]

Not really performance related, but loving this pun from Jack today

[northbank123]

I'm not slagging off Wilshere's performance today because I'm not sure what Wenger expects him to do in a situation like this? Against a team setting up like Palace, he isn't needed defensively and going forward is he meant to dribble through 8 players from the halfway line? They have got so many bodies behind the ball when he gets on it, and Sanogo up front put paid to any thoughts of slick one-twos or subtle runs to pick out. He's got a lot to work on but Wenger doesn't seem to have any idea how to get the best out of him anyway.

[OneBardGooner]

I'm not slagging off Wilshere's performance today because I'm not sure what Wenger expects him to do in a situation like this? Against a team setting up like Palace, he isn't needed defensively and going forward is he meant to dribble through 8 players from the halfway line? They have got so many bodies behind the ball when he gets on it, and Sanogo up front put paid to any thoughts of slick one-twos or subtle runs to pick out. He's got a lot to work on but Wenger doesn't seem to have any idea how to get the best out of him anyway.

Put a mid=field hard man / protector alongside him and Wilshere would be 100% better...I understand wenger is said to be playing him as a DMF to make him a more rounded player - I'm sorry but you do NOT do that on the pitch - You do it over a number of seasons in training then and Only Then - Do you play him in that role in a prem game - and most definitely Not on the opening day.

We So NEED a proper DMF (Enforcer) otherwise our chance sof winning the prem will crash and burn yet again.

WENGER OUT.

[clockender1]

piss poor again today. we looked better when he went off.

i'll repeat what Lee Lee Dixon said "Jack spends too long on the ball, his release is not quick enough. he dawdles and invites tackles. he sucks players in to tackle him, and that's why he's constantly injured"