Everton away match thread.

[QuartzGooner]

22 goals in 51 games is respectable, not shocking.

Giroud is a player who goes through bad patches more than others, and whose strength is bringing midfield running players into the game by holding the ball up and laying it off, rather than scoring goals.
But this is how we play, and what is asked of him.

He has a poor first touch, for sure, and is in very poor form at present.

I think he is not the top level striker we had when Van Persie was fit and on form in his final 8 months with us.
I think we need to buy a striker to win the league.
Giroud is more of a "forward" than a striker.
But on balance through the season I think there is a valid role for him in the squad.

[Henry Norris 1913]

For all you trying to say Giroud's goal scoring record is fine: he scored 22 goals in 51 appearances - that's all competitions - he only scored 16 league goals... That's atrocious when you're Arsenal's starting striker and have Ozil and co. behind you.

indeed. I thought we'd seen the end of people sticking up for his lack of awareness and terrible finishing but it beggars belief that someone pipes up again and comes out with empty waffle.

Its not empty waffle though is it. Its fact that his return, even on those figures, remains better than Adebayor or RVP during his first two years.
I'm no rose tinter but FFS give the poor bastard a chance. I'm often as negative as the next person but some here appear to be negative just for the sake of it. They then have the nerve to say anything positive, even when factual, is waffle. there's no pleasing some

look at the appearances rvp and adebayor made in their first two years, they were fourth choice strikers, not first choice lone strikers
I give him a chance and support him when I attend matches, but the facts speak for themselves and he is nowhere near good enough. He is already 28, and has had 2 seasons already at the club, he has been given a very big chance to prove himself and he hasn't done it, it's that simple.

[clockender1]

Giroud is more of a "forward" than a striker.
But on balance through the season I think there is a valid role for him in the squad.

exactly. he plays in a front TWO for France. same as Pod.

When wenger bought them both, i thought "right, that makes sense - replace RVP with two forwards who play off each other and will get 20 goals each, 'SAS' etc ...."

but Giroud is not a RVP, Drogba, Shearer,Hasselbank, Papin, Baqggio, Klinsmann, Lineker, Dalglish etc an out and out striker, goal hanger, poacher etc, and he never will be.

what he is, is a quality forward who's confidence has plummeted after being told to play the role up front alone - like Gervinho and Chamakh before him.

he has scored some great goals, and occasionally makes some great first touches to turn and volley it in, but he's clearly not comfortable in the role - and he doesn't get enough chances to settle himself down. the few chances he gets he muffs them as he's trying too hard.

to say "he's shit, get rid of him" is ridiculous - and a massive waste of money. As part of a front two and with a decent midfield behind him he'd be a 20+ goals a season player.

[northbank123]

It's a shit role that requires just about every major attribute for strikers. Only a few players could play it every week to a very high level, it just so happened that van Persie was one of those. The vast majority of strikers would struggle with it.

But Giroud is still not good enough, some of the performances he turns in (like yesterday) are scary for an international striker and in any formation he's not good enough. It's crazy that he is an automatic pick for Wenger.

[LDB]

When wenger bought them both, i thought "right, that makes sense - replace RVP with two forwards who play off each other and will get 20 goals each, 'SAS' etc ...."

Not entirely convinced there is much difference in terms of systems between us and all that 'SAS' shite at Liverpool last season, besides quality of player and form/confidence of the team. Watch these teams that apparently play 2 up front and I bet most if not all of them will have one of them in a more withdrawn role. They may rotate during games which one drops off but I bet one of them goes deeper to receive the ball in most attacks. I personally don't see the relevance of whether we call that player a 'striker' or an attacking midfielder.

I agree our best football is played when we get players up near Giroud which is why Ramsey is such an important player for us.

[clockender1]

When wenger bought them both, i thought "right, that makes sense - replace RVP with two forwards who play off each other and will get 20 goals each, 'SAS' etc ...."

Not entirely convinced there is much difference in terms of systems between us and all that 'SAS' shite at Liverpool last season, .

lol. i'm showing my age - "SAS" meant Sutton and Shearer, or Sh*ringham and Shearer.....

but your points are valid, although the 2nd 'striker', inside right etc used to play up alongside the Centre Forward - think Anelka and Bergkamp, Cole and Yorke....

our problem is that Ozil or Caz play too deep, and Giroud is feeding on crumbs.

[WE8SPURS]

When wenger bought them both, i thought "right, that makes sense - replace RVP with two forwards who play off each other and will get 20 goals each, 'SAS' etc ...."

Not entirely convinced there is much difference in terms of systems between us and all that 'SAS' shite at Liverpool last season, besides quality of player and form/confidence of the team. Watch these teams that apparently play 2 up front and I bet most if not all of them will have one of them in a more withdrawn role. They may rotate during games which one drops off but I bet one of them goes deeper to receive the ball in most attacks. I personally don't see the relevance of whether we call that player a 'striker' or an attacking midfielder.

I agree our best football is played when we get players up near Giroud which is why Ramsey is such an important player for us.

Problem is with Giroud up top on his own you need not only midfielders like Ramsey to be making those runs to support but also a lot of pace in the channels to overlap to give him an out ball when he holds it up. As long as Wenger persists with playing central midfielders as wingers we will struggle to put teams under the constant pressure that we did in teams of old.

When everyones fit I'd love us to play 4-4-2, which becomes 4-2-4 when were attacking. I'd play the usual back four and because we don't have a decent DM i'd play without one and have Ozil/Caz, Ramsey in the middle with Wally/Ox on the right and Campbell/Ox on the left with Sanchez and Giroud up top and then hope to fuck we could score more than we concede

Failing that, stick with the current formation but drop Giroud and play Sanchez up top with Wally and either Campbell or the Ox on the wings and then counter the ass off teams like we used to back in the days when we were ridled with pacey players that played the game at a higher intensity. At the end of the day pace scares the hell out of defenders which forces them to drop deep which in turn creates more space for our creative players in midfield.

What it comes down to is no matter what formation he chose Wenger would always pick the wrong players to suit it and therein lies the problem

[RayC]

I thought this was an Everton away discussion !. Anyway lets get back to Giroud - what makes a half decent striker is the number of chances he doesn't miss not the total goals scored, if you see what I mean !!. Big John Radford only needed half a chance and it was in the back of the net. We'll be OK when Cavani arrives. 2 - 0 to da Toffees.

[Midz]

The summer additions to the squad are far from complete as we're already showing gaps and weakness and we've only played 2 games.
Everton will be a difficult match.

[Midz]

What's required for us to be serious contenders:

DM - (£20m)
CB - (£20m)
LB - (£20m)
ST - (£30m)

With the above budget of £90m which no one can tell me we don't have, give or take a few million we could buy what's needed to make us viable proposition.
It might not cost that much (I was being generous).

[SPUDMASHER]

I think that those slating Giroud are looking for something from him that isn't part of his game. He is being played in a system that doesn't highlight his strengths. I am convinced that as part of a 4-4-2 (which we should be playing in 70%of our matches) he would flourish.

To rubbish him as a player is utterly ridiculous and shows the limited understanding of some people. This guy is a French international for fucks sake. You don't get into that squad without being reasonably decent.

[northbank123]

Agree to an extent LDB, certainly about getting players around Giroud and Ramsey"s obvious importance in that role.

But the difference with us is the tactics are not conducive enough to that. Some people may view it as wonderful flexibility to have a player who can drift in side on one wing but I do not. To be bluntly critical (seeing as we don't have enough of that here), playing a wing/forward like Sanchez or Walcott off one wing and a central player like Cazorla, Ozil or even Podolski is unbalanced. Chuck in the fact both of our wide players are then expected to offer a fair amount of defensive cover and its no wonder that we don't have enough players around Giroud too often.

Personally I wouldn't mind the experiment of Giroud and Podolski up front in a 4-4-2, against a shit team at home. Personally I don't think they will be anywhere near a good enough partnership to sacrifice the extra midfielder and that "isolated" would become "static".

[Gunner Rob]

Sanchez just looks like another Ozil - not really what we need

however that signing managed to keep the masses happy this summer and together with basking in the FA Cup win has enabled Wenger to stroll through the summer without facing any criticism

however now it is becoming worryingly apparent that the problems from last season are still there.
add in the fact that Chelsea and City have strengthened (as we all knew they would) and we are nowhere near contenders this season

there were quite a few on here last season that rightly said that last season was the opportunity for us to win the league as we would struggle to compete once Mourinho and Pellegrini had more time with their teams. that is now becoming painfully obvious and it makes the failure to sign a top striker in January more frustrating than ever...

[OneBardGooner]

What's required for us to be serious contenders:

DM - (£20m)
CB - (£20m)
LB - (£20m)
ST - (£30m)

With the above budget of £90m which no one can tell me we don't have, give or take a few million we could buy what's needed to make us viable proposition.
It might not cost that much (I was being generous).

It may even cost as much as £100 million, BUT what we would/could recoup in monies and in other ways - Would far out balance that kind of spending.

[WE8SPURS]

I think that those slating Giroud are looking for something from him that isn't part of his game. He is being played in a system that doesn't highlight his strengths. I am convinced that as part of a 4-4-2 (which we should be playing in 70%of our matches) he would flourish.

To rubbish him as a player is utterly ridiculous and shows the limited understanding of some people. This guy is a French international for fucks sake. You don't get into that squad without being reasonably decent.

You do when the alternatives are Loic Remy and our very own Sanogoals seriously, I'm not a hater and think Giroud is not played in the right formation with the right players around him but I'm struggling to think of any decent French strikers barring Benzema.