As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Gunner Rob wrote:Sanchez just looks like another Ozil - not really what we need
yes i agree.
i love him as a player, but in May it was clear we needed TWO DM's a CB and a RB. i wasn't looking at wide or deep players at all as we have ox, wally, ozil, caz, rosicky, gnabry and campbell. we also frequently used Pod out of position on the wing too.
arseofacrow wrote:Giroud only needed to be competent to do better on Tuesday.
I slag him off as much as most BUT I also realise that it is down to the ineptitude of AW and his insisting/persisting with 1 up front.
Giroud is not world class, but if he had an anchor man/ supply man up front with him, he would improve ten fold.
Sometimes Giroud plays shyte - other times not, but with a more suitable team formation he would simply score more goals.
Agreed we would be more potent but if we play 2 in the middle against a team that plays 3 we'll be killed we're simply not that good in midfield.
When we play City who played 2 midfielders we killed them, Besiktas played three in the middle and they had the edge I felt. Play Chelsea 3 vs 3 and they will smash us to pieces. What would have helped was if we had a physical presence in midfield, not relying on options and technique. It makes a world of a difference when your DM can shield the ball away from pressing attackers by using just their physique. If anyone closes Arteta down he can easily be disposed and frequently loses the ball when he waits too long.
So cannot see how we can play 4-4-2 or 3-5-2.
Essentially many teams play one up front, the key is their striker is quite competent, Aguero and Suarez can do it, not big players but they can, PSG do it because they have a wizard up front.
Try Sanchez up front and Ox wide. Giroud is not just going to stumble into form.
arseofacrow wrote:Giroud only needed to be competent to do better on Tuesday.
I slag him off as much as most BUT I also realise that it is down to the ineptitude of AW and his insisting/persisting with 1 up front.
Giroud is not world class, but if he had an anchor man/ supply man up front with him, he would improve ten fold.
Sometimes Giroud plays shyte - other times not, but with a more suitable team formation he would simply score more goals.
Agreed we would be more potent but if we play 2 in the middle against a team that plays 3 we'll be killed we're simply not that good in midfield.
When we play City who played 2 midfielders we killed them, Besiktas played three in the middle and they had the edge I felt. Play Chelsea 3 vs 3 and they will smash us to pieces. What would have helped was if we had a physical presence in midfield, not relying on options and technique. It makes a world of a difference when your DM can shield the ball away from pressing attackers by using just their physique. If anyone closes Arteta down he can easily be disposed and frequently loses the ball when he waits too long.
So cannot see how we can play 4-4-2 or 3-5-2.
Essentially many teams play one up front, the key is their striker is quite competent, Aguero and Suarez can do it, not big players but they can, PSG do it because they have a wizard up front.
Try Sanchez up front and Ox wide. Giroud is not just going to stumble into form.
Citeeh played 2 in midfield last season and destroyed us both times and I think that it is a more accurate barometer than the charity shield line up.
People talk about Giroud needing a deep lying striker playing off him but that would be fcuk all use imo - when you play a deep lying striker like Bergkamp, he needs somebody with pace and brains to make the right runs onto the through balls, and Giroud has neither trait. Giroud needs somebody playing alongside him to pick up the knock downs and flick ons cos otherwise he is limited in what he can do for the team
Given the players we have at the club, our formation should be 4-3-1-2
augie wrote:Given the players we have at the club, our formation should be 4-3-1-2
geeze, we dont score enough now, with that setup we'd be even slower to attack then we are now!
How exactly ? Even assuming that we buy nobody else, an attacking line up of Sanchez alongside Giroud with ozil sitting in behind them would be infinitely more explosive and dangerous than what we have now
I watched the highlights of the Toffees v leicester game last night...and the toffees looked pretty good - quick, accurate, focused, strong both in attack and defence - The more I think about this game the less confident I am in us getting anything from it.
Oh! why? Oh! Feckin' Why? Won't Wenger Spend Some Fuckin' Money!? - On a Striker and DMF!!!???
augie, we'll have no width what so ever? Very hard to break teams down with that. Having said nothing wrong with having a flexible formation which changes depending on who we play.
Giroud shouldn't be in any starting 11. There isn't really an attribute that he brings that will help us push on. I know he is off form (6 months now), but even at his best he is ropey. Great to bring off the bench and start some games, but really should have been phased out of the starting 11 by now.
Supagoon wrote:augie, we'll have no width what so ever? Very hard to break teams down with that. Having said nothing wrong with having a flexible formation which changes depending on who we play.
Giroud shouldn't be in any starting 11. There isn't really an attribute that he brings that will help us push on. I know he is off form (6 months now), but even at his best he is ropey. Great to bring off the bench and start some games, but really should have been phased out of the starting 11 by now.
Not disagreeing with that in principle BUT the only width we have right now comes from Sanchez and he is the one that should be played through the middle Cazorla drifts in as does ozil when he is played there, and podolski (when le cock plays him ) naturally gets drawn into the centre forward position - all that suggests to me that we have no width. Anyway if we look at it objectively we will see see that le cock doesn't really buy wingers but just shafts players out there against their natural instinct so maybe playing the likes of ozil and santi centrally makes more sense and is fairer to them as well
I also agree re Giroud but my above suggestion was based on the probability that le cock won't buy another striker
augie wrote:Given the players we have at the club, our formation should be 4-3-1-2
geeze, we dont score enough now, with that setup we'd be even slower to attack then we are now!
How exactly ? Even assuming that we buy nobody else, an attacking line up of Sanchez alongside Giroud with ozil sitting in behind them would be infinitely more explosive and dangerous than what we have now
i guess im thinking the 3 would be laying back a little more as to cover the back 4 more effectively possibly slowing the transition going forward. also on the attack, the wings on that line of 3 could be forced up in support and the formation then becomes a 4-1-3-2 which leaves us back at square one in need of a strong DM!
that being said im all for 2 up top if we get a more capable DM.
Midz wrote:What's required for us to be serious contenders:
DM - (£20m)
CB - (£20m)
LB - (£20m)
ST - (£30m)
With the above budget of £90m which no one can tell me we don't have, give or take a few million we could buy what's needed to make us viable proposition.
It might not cost that much (I was being generous).
We don't need a left back. The others yes.
Gibbs is very injury prone and not reliable for the season. Monreal isn't very good.
Look at Monreal & Cazorla on the left against Besiktas - they offered nothing going forward and little in defence. They don't work together. We could offload Monreal and buy a better LB either as first choice or as backup.
I don't think there's a LB in world football who would look comfortable playing with Santi in front of them.
officepest wrote:Giroud's not shit, but I don't think he will never be what we need. He just isn't quite sharp enough, nor mobile enough, to play the role that's asked of him. He also needs too many chances to score, something that we cannot afford if we persist with one up front.
He's still a very useful option to have as he offers some physicality up front which is something we have generally lacked but, alas, he's not in the same league as RvP.
If we are not going to bother with Sanchez through the middle then we surely need to invest in a top-drawer striker with the correct attributes to play the lone striker role.
I am not holding my breath.
And that is the problem. How many modern strikers are equipped to play that lone striker role really effectively? And of those, how many does anyone think would be sold by their club? 4-5-1 is very obviously the root cause of so many of our problems and yet Arsene still plays it.
Aaaaah Yes! but, Wenger would insist he is not playing 4-5-1...He is in fact playing 1 - 5 - 4.
Cazorla drifts in as does ozil when he is played there, and podolski (when le cock plays him 
) naturally gets drawn into the centre forward position - all that suggests to me that we have no width. Anyway if we look at it objectively we will see see that le cock doesn't really buy wingers but just shafts players out there against their natural instinct so maybe playing the likes of ozil and santi centrally makes more sense and is fairer to them as well
