Besiktas (H)
Re: Besiktas (H)
Im glad we won, but tonight was about only one thing, and that was Wenger justifying his large wage to the board by securing another year in the money league. If he was actually serious about the competition then he would sign the striker and Defensive midfielder we need, but that wont be happening, so expect another last 16 exit. On the game itself, Sanchez was excellent, he worked his socks off, to the extent that when the final whistle went, he fell to the ground, he was that tired. When he is fit, he will be some player. I also thought Cazorla really put a shift in when it was really needed after the sending off.
Re: Besiktas (H)
I'm happy we're through and I'm happy that Sanchez got his goal. When you've got a large fee and those expectations you need to hit the ground running.
But honestly, tonight was a night for Wenger and the moneymen. They'll get to show off their flashy stadium and restaurant and boxes, whilst out on the pitch we're getting ripped to shreds by a European giant because of Wenger's inept tactics and poor selection.
This is our 17th year in the competition, under the same manager and we still haven't worked out how to win it. George Graham had one botched European campaign and made sure to get it right the second time, albeit in a lesser competition. There needs to be a proper discussion about Wenger's appalling European record. Look at the players we've had over nearly two decades. I can't believe that Wenger never made them European Champions, even once.
But honestly, tonight was a night for Wenger and the moneymen. They'll get to show off their flashy stadium and restaurant and boxes, whilst out on the pitch we're getting ripped to shreds by a European giant because of Wenger's inept tactics and poor selection.
This is our 17th year in the competition, under the same manager and we still haven't worked out how to win it. George Graham had one botched European campaign and made sure to get it right the second time, albeit in a lesser competition. There needs to be a proper discussion about Wenger's appalling European record. Look at the players we've had over nearly two decades. I can't believe that Wenger never made them European Champions, even once.
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DB10GOONER
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Re: Besiktas (H)
Well, we won. Just about. 
So much to be unhappy about after watching it - and a few things to be happy about too.
The Ref had a mare. Booking a bloke for coming on before the ref signalled, even though play had stopped, and Chambers seemed to think he had the go ahead from the 4th official, was one of the pettiest, most pathetic, refereeing decisions I've ever seen.
The ref got a lot wrong but both penalty incidents were close calls. I think Deboooochy, whilst making contact with the player, got enough on the ball that it was 50/50 wether the ref should give a penno tbh. Seen them given, seen them not. Jack's one, I'm not so sure either. Looked like he got fuck all of the player and the player anticipated getting wiped out and went over. Not a dive, but avoiding getting a planted foot caught. Maybe... But none of the camera angles were definitive for me on Jack's one. So we rode our luck on both. 
Deeeboochy was brilliant until the harsh sending off. Chambers again just looked so confident and strong when he came on. I know it's early yet, but honestly think he might turn into one of our best signings. Wilshere had moments of class, spinning his marker and driving on with the ball. Also, no coincidence that Jack looked much better without Ramsey on the pitch. But it's all so inconsistent with Jack. He shows flashes of the top quality player that is in there somewhere, and then he starts falling over and losing posession. I think we should stick with him for another couple seasons because he might do a Ramsey, but tbh, sadly I just think he might not cut it in the end. He is too inconsistent. Consistency is everything at the top level.
I was seriously impressed with Santi's work rate last night. His passing, not so much.
Monreal has had two good-ish games but let's be honest he is not top quality. And neither is Gibbs. Gibbs is good at his best, average most of the time. Monreal average at his best, poor most of the time. We need better to be a team with a chance of challenging for the PL or CL.
But honestly, last night once more showed that our biggest liability is Arsene and his "system". Sanchez gave everything last night and he was brilliant at chasing down etc and took his goal well, but he will not be able to keep that up every week in the PL and CL. He will do well to a certain extent and he is gutsy and never gives up and I love that in a player, but he will burn out and lose form playing up front on his own. We could get so much more return out of him if we didn't play him as a lone striker.
Similarly, Ozil is a top class player, but he is not a winger that will track up and down and cover his full back like you need a winger to do in a 4-5-1 where you expect your backs to get forward. We would get so much more from him if he was played inside as a 10 with a freer rein to work across the box and place weighted balls in behind, something he has the quality to do. I have a terrible feeling Ozil won't make it at Arsenal because of Wenger's obsession with the shit 4-5-1 and playing players in roles that don't get the best out of them. And only one man can be held responsible for that; Wenger himself.
So much to be unhappy about after watching it - and a few things to be happy about too. The Ref had a mare. Booking a bloke for coming on before the ref signalled, even though play had stopped, and Chambers seemed to think he had the go ahead from the 4th official, was one of the pettiest, most pathetic, refereeing decisions I've ever seen.
The ref got a lot wrong but both penalty incidents were close calls. I think Deboooochy, whilst making contact with the player, got enough on the ball that it was 50/50 wether the ref should give a penno tbh. Seen them given, seen them not. Jack's one, I'm not so sure either. Looked like he got fuck all of the player and the player anticipated getting wiped out and went over. Not a dive, but avoiding getting a planted foot caught. Maybe... But none of the camera angles were definitive for me on Jack's one. So we rode our luck on both. Deeeboochy was brilliant until the harsh sending off. Chambers again just looked so confident and strong when he came on. I know it's early yet, but honestly think he might turn into one of our best signings. Wilshere had moments of class, spinning his marker and driving on with the ball. Also, no coincidence that Jack looked much better without Ramsey on the pitch. But it's all so inconsistent with Jack. He shows flashes of the top quality player that is in there somewhere, and then he starts falling over and losing posession. I think we should stick with him for another couple seasons because he might do a Ramsey, but tbh, sadly I just think he might not cut it in the end. He is too inconsistent. Consistency is everything at the top level.
I was seriously impressed with Santi's work rate last night. His passing, not so much.
Monreal has had two good-ish games but let's be honest he is not top quality. And neither is Gibbs. Gibbs is good at his best, average most of the time. Monreal average at his best, poor most of the time. We need better to be a team with a chance of challenging for the PL or CL.
But honestly, last night once more showed that our biggest liability is Arsene and his "system". Sanchez gave everything last night and he was brilliant at chasing down etc and took his goal well, but he will not be able to keep that up every week in the PL and CL. He will do well to a certain extent and he is gutsy and never gives up and I love that in a player, but he will burn out and lose form playing up front on his own. We could get so much more return out of him if we didn't play him as a lone striker.
Similarly, Ozil is a top class player, but he is not a winger that will track up and down and cover his full back like you need a winger to do in a 4-5-1 where you expect your backs to get forward. We would get so much more from him if he was played inside as a 10 with a freer rein to work across the box and place weighted balls in behind, something he has the quality to do. I have a terrible feeling Ozil won't make it at Arsenal because of Wenger's obsession with the shit 4-5-1 and playing players in roles that don't get the best out of them. And only one man can be held responsible for that; Wenger himself.
Re: Besiktas (H)
Agree, beyond bizarre that Jack gets Ozil's natural position. Ozil didn't do much last night, but when he did stray inside into the no 10 position, he put through the pass for the goal. Jack gave everything last night, and in doing so showed his strengths and his limitations. Alexis will get a few more goals with Ozil setting him up than he will with Jack.DB10GOONER wrote:Well, we won. Just about.
The Ref had a mare. Booking a bloke for coming on before the ref signalled, even though play had stopped, and Chambers seemed to think he had the go ahead from the 4th official, was one of the pettiest, most pathetic, refereeing decisions I've ever seen.
Deeeboochy was brilliant until the harsh sending off. Chambers again just looked so confident and strong when he came on. I know it's early yet, but honestly think he might turn into one of our best signings. Wilshere had moments of class, spinning his marker and driving on with the ball. Also, no coincidence that Jack looked much better without Ramsey on the pitch. But it's all so inconsistent with Jack. He shows flashes of the top quality player that is in there somewhere, and then he starts falling over and losing posession. I think we should stick with him for another couple seasons because he might do a Ramsey, but tbh, sadly I just think he might not cut it in the end. He is too inconsistent. Consistency is everything at the top level.
I was seriously impressed with Santi's work rate last night. His passing, not so much.
Monreal has had two good-ish games but let's be honest he is not top quality. And neither is Gibbs. Gibbs is good at his best, average most of the time. Monreal average at his best, poor most of the time. We need better to be a team with a chance of challenging for the PL or CL.
But honestly, last night once more showed that our biggest liability is Arsene and his "system". Sanchez gave everything last night and he was brilliant at chasing down etc and took his goal well, but he will not be able to keep that up every week in the PL and CL. He will do well to a certain extent and he is gutsy and never gives up and I love that in a player, but he will burn out and lose form playing up front on his own. We could get so much more return out of him if we didn't play him as a lone striker.
Similarly, Ozil is a top class player, but he is not a winger that will track up and down and cover his full back like you need a winger to do in a 4-5-1 where you expect your backs to get forward. We would get so much more from him if he was played inside as a 10 with a freer rein to work across the box and place weighted balls in behind, something he has the quality to do. I have a terrible feeling Ozil won't make it at Arsenal because of Wenger's obsession with the shit 4-5-1 and playing players in roles that don't get the best out of them. And only one man can be held responsible for that; Wenger himself.
This is an Arsenal team with few goals in it though.
Ref was equally bizarre, but I'm thankful that he didn't give the Wilshere pen. Nailed down, even if Jack slipped - he took out the Besiktas player just as he was about to shoot. Bilic is right though. Besiktas are crap in front of goal.
We'll do well to get last 16 at this rate. Some v good sides in all 4 groups of the draw
Re: Besiktas (H)
really enjoyed my first UCL experience... game was very tense especially at the end.
i dont think Debuchy deserved a 2nd a yellow, from where i was sitting it looked like a great tackle and he won the ball
needless to say the ref had a shocker
only thing i didnt enjoy were the 2 geezers in front of me whinging about anything and everything
the kid sitting next to me was also whining about every bad pass.. but certainly wasnt as bad as the 2 geezers
bring on the next game!
i dont think Debuchy deserved a 2nd a yellow, from where i was sitting it looked like a great tackle and he won the ball
needless to say the ref had a shocker
only thing i didnt enjoy were the 2 geezers in front of me whinging about anything and everything
the kid sitting next to me was also whining about every bad pass.. but certainly wasnt as bad as the 2 geezers
bring on the next game!
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SPUDMASHER
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Re: Besiktas (H)
Personally I thought that Jack was dogshit in the first half and superb in the second.
Hopefully now that we have secured the qualification we might be able to lure one or two of the decent signings that have been touted recently. There was no way any of them were going to come before qualification was assured.
Not a great performance but I think we showed some real grit and determination toward the end when they were lobbing the kitchen sink at us. We had a real resolve. If we can tidy up the string of errant passes (so out of character for us) that have been plaguing us for the last few games then I think we'll do quite well this year. Winning any group is an absolute must though. Failure to do so could be fatal for us.
Hopefully now that we have secured the qualification we might be able to lure one or two of the decent signings that have been touted recently. There was no way any of them were going to come before qualification was assured.
Not a great performance but I think we showed some real grit and determination toward the end when they were lobbing the kitchen sink at us. We had a real resolve. If we can tidy up the string of errant passes (so out of character for us) that have been plaguing us for the last few games then I think we'll do quite well this year. Winning any group is an absolute must though. Failure to do so could be fatal for us.
Re: Besiktas (H)
Wilshere still gave the ball away too much but I liked the fact that he actually drive forward with the ball on a few occasions. When he carries it forward it brings the whole team forward quickly but he just isn't finding his passing range at the moment. As many have pointed out, he has generally been sitting on the ball waiting to be tackled. It's the old issue of a player needing to play games to get back in to form but can we carry him for the time he needs.
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LDB
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Re: Besiktas (H)
Thought that was our best performance of the season so far (not saying much I know). Sanchez worked his nuts off, you could see he was fucked at full time. Didn't see too many weak links in the team although I wonder how long it is going to be before the penny drops that Ozil should be in the centre not the left wing. Special mention to Flamini who I thought played very well.
PS the ref was a *word censored*
PS the ref was a *word censored*
Re: Besiktas (H)
No,we wouldn't win that either,I was asking what is the difference between going out last night or in the last 16,apart from mucho millions for the club and more games.....do you seriously think we would win the Champions league or the Europa League? Wenger would turn it into the Europa Capital cup,I'm happy we are into the group stages but wont be seriously thinking we'll win it.swimmer1 wrote:So you rather see us in the Euro league than CL because we might have a better chance of winning it mmmm each to your ownarseofacrow wrote:limp wristed. So true in every way.robbo10 wrote:Out tonight,or in 6 months after a limp wristed display somewhere........what's the difference?
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Humoresque
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Re: Besiktas (H)
Brady's left peg wrote:So Rosicky and Campbell on the bench... when we need a bit of pace and move the ball a bit quicker.
What does Campbell have to do to get a start? The lad has chumps league experience and Rosicky very rarely lets us down, but yet again clueless chooses to leave them on the bench...
Campbell is Wenger's new Podolski, just watch.
and we would've sold Pod if Giroud crocked his ankle a week later.
Re: Besiktas (H)
At least we're through to the group stage. That last 15 minutes did my nails !. I think Ozil is wasted out wide but that's only half his problem. He can't tackle anywhere on the pitch so it does'nt realy matter where he plays if you want him to defend. He should only be used as cover for Jack. Maybe just swap him for a decent CF.
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DB10GOONER
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Re: Besiktas (H)
Ozil is not a tackler, mate. And nor should he be. He is a creator. He can pick out the pass that opens a defence. Play him in the centre and let the rest tackle/defend. You can carry one luxury player if your system works around their ability. But of course with Lord Venger in charge we will continue to waste him out on the wing where he basically offers very little either way.RayC wrote:At least we're through to the group stage. That last 15 minutes did my nails !. I think Ozil is wasted out wide but that's only half his problem. He can't tackle anywhere on the pitch so it does'nt realy matter where he plays if you want him to defend. He should only be used as cover for Jack. Maybe just swap him for a decent CF.
Re: Besiktas (H)
Attended the game on Wednesday - first CL game I have attended. My observations were that:-
1) Although Sanchez was up front it didnt feel as he should have been there - we need to sign a classic number 9 of the approporiate calibre - someone world class!
2) The ref was absolutely shocking he didnt let the game run and was so trigger happy with his cards, the linesmen were no better and the wrong decsions for both sides were made
3) The Besiktas fans were so loud in the first half so passionate about their team - I would like to see more of this from our own fans (granted towards the nail biting finish we got louder) but we could do more to help the team.
4) Lots of fans around me were slating Ozil calling him lazy and the such like - not sure if he is actually lazy and cant be bothered or that it is his style to be more relaxed and more concerned about playing a clever type of ball. His work ethic is a complete contrast to Sanchez.
5) After Alexis scored there seemed to be a real spark in his game in the second half he had a extra skip to his step and terrorised the opposition with his pace and determination - I did think he looked a little small for the lofted balls forward which he mostly lost out on but cant knock him for his effort
6) Nice to see Jack up his game I wanted him to score as he showed more determination than I have seen this season so far, watching both him and Chambers tackle two seperate players one after each other with force was exactly what I wanted to see.
Hopefully attending the Leicester game so will beinteresting to see how we line up - I would like for Campbell to get a chance to play - we havent seen enough from him and I believe he can be a real talent.
Good day fellow Gooners!
1) Although Sanchez was up front it didnt feel as he should have been there - we need to sign a classic number 9 of the approporiate calibre - someone world class!
2) The ref was absolutely shocking he didnt let the game run and was so trigger happy with his cards, the linesmen were no better and the wrong decsions for both sides were made
3) The Besiktas fans were so loud in the first half so passionate about their team - I would like to see more of this from our own fans (granted towards the nail biting finish we got louder) but we could do more to help the team.
4) Lots of fans around me were slating Ozil calling him lazy and the such like - not sure if he is actually lazy and cant be bothered or that it is his style to be more relaxed and more concerned about playing a clever type of ball. His work ethic is a complete contrast to Sanchez.
5) After Alexis scored there seemed to be a real spark in his game in the second half he had a extra skip to his step and terrorised the opposition with his pace and determination - I did think he looked a little small for the lofted balls forward which he mostly lost out on but cant knock him for his effort
6) Nice to see Jack up his game I wanted him to score as he showed more determination than I have seen this season so far, watching both him and Chambers tackle two seperate players one after each other with force was exactly what I wanted to see.
Hopefully attending the Leicester game so will beinteresting to see how we line up - I would like for Campbell to get a chance to play - we havent seen enough from him and I believe he can be a real talent.
Good day fellow Gooners!
Re: Besiktas (H)
Referee may have had a bad night, but I'm glad we got someone of his caliber. Has done the CL final and euro final.
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northbank123
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Re: Besiktas (H)
Also glad we got somebody who views going through the back of a player as he's about to pull the trigger as no penaltygp543 wrote:Referee may have had a bad night, but I'm glad we got someone of his caliber. Has done the CL final and euro final.
