As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
We have dynamic players but no longer play dynamic football and the only time we look dynamic is when ox is playing
I'm not a 1989 knee jerking reactionary but ox scored against the scum on Saturday and his pass for wellbeck's 3rd tonight was absolutely top quality so don't know how you can argue that he has no end product The ox has far more to his game than the one trick pony that is Wally who is snuffed out of a game every time we play against a team whose defence sits deep
Finally if you really think that Wally is a better finisher than Sanchez then I think that you should have a lie down buddy - sanchez's consistency in his finishing and variation in the type of goals he scores, puts him way ahead of every other player in our club and that includes Wally
Perhaps if you used a larger sample size than just the last two games you'll see how Chamberlain lacks end product: Never scored more than two league goals in a season and has never even scored more than 4 in all competitions. Now he may well have improved in that respect and I'll be ecstatic, but that comment is based off his career thus far, not just the last 10 days.
He got 6 assists last season and 5 the season before...That's decent-ish I guess but nothing stellar.
RE Walcott's finishing - note the fact I said he is "arguably" the best, not "is" - Podolski may well be more clinical.
P.S.
Unless you've followed Sanchez's career prior to his arrival here, you can't say the consistency of his finishing puts him ahead of Walcott, again, 5 or 6 goals is too small a sample size. Walcott is very astute at dispatching 1 on 1's.
I think Walcott (injury permitting) is ahead of Oxlade-Chamberlain at this point in time.
Walcott's improvement over the last 18 months has seen extra body strength, better passing and a more clinical finishing allied to his existing pace.
Oxlade-Chamberlain is a different sort of player for me, he can play wide but I see him with a longer term central role, a box-to-box player with excellent body swerve which enables him to run through crowded areas and beat three opposition players whilst retaining possession.
The improvement is needed in his end product.
That does not mean he has no end product, as his recent assist and goal show.
But I think he gives away too many short passes to be ahead of Walcott or Ramsey in the queue to be a starter for us.
For me longer term the big question is could Oxlade-Chamberlain play centrally with Ramsey instead of Arteta or Flamini?
Could they between them win enough tackles?
With Wilshere as the alternative.
Leaving Walcott and Sanchez as the wide men, with Gnabry, Cazorla and Campbell as the wide competition.
I should add that I'm not intending to knock Chamberlain in the slightest who is one of my favourites -I think he is probably our and England's player with the most potential and has an extremely rare set of attributes (pace, strength,power, and technique). I fully expect him to be a more complete and superior player to Theo, it's just at present time, I think Theo offers us more (when fit, obviously).
We have dynamic players but no longer play dynamic football and the only time we look dynamic is when ox is playing
I'm not a 1989 knee jerking reactionary but ox scored against the scum on Saturday and his pass for wellbeck's 3rd tonight was absolutely top quality so don't know how you can argue that he has no end product The ox has far more to his game than the one trick pony that is Wally who is snuffed out of a game every time we play against a team whose defence sits deep
Finally if you really think that Wally is a better finisher than Sanchez then I think that you should have a lie down buddy - sanchez's consistency in his finishing and variation in the type of goals he scores, puts him way ahead of every other player in our club and that includes Wally
Perhaps if you used a larger sample size than just the last two games you'll see how Chamberlain lacks end product: Never scored more than two league goals in a season and has never even scored more than 4 in all competitions. Now he may well have improved in that respect and I'll be ecstatic, but that comment is based off his career thus far, not just the last 10 days.
He got 6 assists last season and 5 the season before...That's decent-ish I guess but nothing stellar.
RE Walcott's finishing - note the fact I said he is "arguably" the best, not "is" - Podolski may well be more clinical.
P.S.
Unless you've followed Sanchez's career prior to his arrival here, you can't say the consistency of his finishing puts him ahead of Walcott, again, 5 or 6 goals is too small a sample size. Walcott is very astute at dispatching 1 on 1's.
When you compare goals and assists stats then maybe you should include appearances and minutes on the pitch ? Wally was an ever present until he got injured, whilst the ox was a bit part player if we are being honest
Unlike many on here, I have enjoyed watching la liga in recent seasons and especially barca (and ath madrid) so I can say that I have seen a good bit of sanchez in that time - for me his quality is miles above every other striker we have at the club and he displays a poachers instinct at times and that is something wally has never had
Think you have to acknowledge that they're different players. Even when playing out wide Walcott is more of an outlet focused only on getting in behind whereas Chamberlain contributes far more to the general tempo of our play. Walcotts pace is a dream and sorely missed but ultimately he only uses it to try and get in behind, it doesn't improvr our overall play whereas Chamberlain gets on the ball in far deeper areas and his directness from those areas opens up space for other players.
Not saying its necessarily decisive but you are comparing two different players.
And I also reiterate my belief that despite the lukewarm media attitude towards him Chamberlain is probably the best young English player, along with Sterling being very exciting due to his age and pace.
augie wrote:
When you compare goals and assists stats then maybe you should include appearances and minutes on the pitch ? Wally was an ever present until he got injured, whilst the ox was a bit part player if we are being honest
Unlike many on here, I have enjoyed watching la liga in recent seasons and especially barca (and ath madrid) so I can say that I have seen a good bit of sanchez in that time - for me his quality is miles above every other striker we have at the club and he displays a poachers instinct at times and that is something wally has never had
I wasn't directly comparing Chamberlain to Walcott, just pointing out that his end product has been lacking up until this point - limited minutes or not, 2 league goals a season is poor for someone with as much ability as Chamberlain.
Fair enough on Sanchez, I haven't seen enough of him to accurately gauge his finishing ability.
Regardless, I still feel that Walcott is more of a threat than Chamberlain at this stage of their careers; Alex undoubtedly has an abundance of talent and is just waiting to explode, he just needs to learn to harness his ability and use it consistently.
Seriously theo has end product these days. He was on great form before injuries and he is a great finisher. Ox may potentially be better and yes he is better in possession, but he has much to improve on.
I've always backed theo even when he was awful, not about to give up on him when he was showing the consistency that we've all been waiting for.
Will take him a while to get any form after the ACL though.
I know that it is a common occurance but it never ceases to amaze how a player's standing seems to improve when he is out injured - wally's contributions seemed to have been glossed up since he went down and the fact that his last action was taking this piss out of scum fans seems to have endeared him even more to Gooners (certainly made an impression on me )
augie wrote:I know that it is a common occurance but it never ceases to amaze how a player's standing seems to improve when he is out injured - wally's contributions seemed to have been glossed up since he went down and the fact that his last action was taking this piss out of scum fans seems to have endeared him even more to Gooners (certainly made an impression on me )
Same as the saying that someone devellops wings when they die- its the rose tinted specs effect.
To sum up- Theo- better finisher at the moment than Ox.
Ox- better all round game and potential, but some faults.
Best is that perhaps means that they wont both be flogged to death.
I was delighted when we signed Sanchez, but he's not been making great decisions recently. Each game he seems to go through a period of trying to dribble past every player on the pitch, irrespective of which way he's facing, or which teammates are in space.
He's seemed frustrated and I hope AW doesn't destroy him like he has others.
- The more I see of Sanchez the more I like him, I think he is our best player, offers the lot.
- I think Walcott's non-scoring contribution is under-rated:
He makes good dummy runs to pull defenders wide for others to exploit.
He has now upped his game to provide good cutback passes, regularly.
His very presence means the other midfielders know we have a player who will run at goal with pace, and so we are not automatically in a "Feux Tiki Tika" mode.
I'm wary of blaming every single piece of underperformance on Wenger but I doubt he understands the role he's expected to play. I certainly don't and it seems to change from week to week. Parlour made a big thing on the radio yesterday about how Wenger encourages fluidity - no surprises there. He doesn't really seem to think there's a massive difference between Ozil playing on the wing or AMC as the players are encouraged to interchange.
But the 4-5-1 is so confused with our wide players. If Ozil plays out on the wing he just lingers about further infield and nearly always looks back infield because he can't beat a man. Cazorla will spend some time hugging the touchline for the ball to feet and time roaming across the width of the pitch. Chamberlain is the most conventional wide midfielder who will offer an option to feet, in behind the full-back and will run at players either down the wing or through the middle. Walcott basically says fuck you to the rest of the team and plays off the last shoulder because he's far more effective doing that. If Podolski plays out there he is pretty pedestrian but generally looks to drive towards the by-line or cut diagonally infield towards the goal.
All completely different types of players and thinking that we don't have to make any tactical adjustments regardless of which combination of those are out wide is folly. Especially when there doesn't seem to be any basic consistency between what they are expected to do. When Sanchez plays he gets on the ball and tries to dribble all over the pitch when his team-mates are expecting tippy-tappy crap, he presses defenders hard which is a waste when everyone else is standing off and he chases back when he doesn't need to. All 3 admirable traits but currently result in wasted energy because he's largely on a different wave-length to everyone else. And nobody talks to him about it because that would sail far too close to the realm of 'tactics' rather than Wenger encouraging his players to express themselves via interpretive dance.
Gnabry for me is a cross between Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain, hope we see more of him.
But whilst you describe a lot of what Sanchez does as a waste, it does have the effect of adding some oomph to a team which too often can be slow and sideways passing.
It energises the performance...even if that can be a "one-man team" type effect such as we saw against Besiktas at home.
The ox has far more to his game than the one trick pony that is Wally who is snuffed out of a game every time we play against a team whose defence sits deep
)
