THE WENGER THREAD

[BFG4]

My biggest criticism of Wenger is that he has became a loser over the past 10 years. Back in the 2002/2003 season, we won the FA cup, but in the season review, Wenger was bitterly disappointed not to win the league, fast forward 11 years, and our once great manager accepts top four finishes like trophies, and makes no realistic attempt to even challenge for the title. This is The Arsenal, not shitty spurs, but we have fans who will jump for joy in May, if we finish in the top four. Imagine Charlie George or Frank Mclintock celebrating qualifying for a competition, of course they wouldn't, because they were winners. This current club is managed by a loser, and supported by a lot of fans who are losers also. WENGER OUT.

[northbank123]

My biggest criticism of Wenger is that he has became a loser over the past 10 years. Back in the 2002/2003 season, we won the FA cup, but in the season review, Wenger was bitterly disappointed not to win the league, fast forward 11 years, and our once great manager accepts top four finishes like trophies, and makes no realistic attempt to even challenge for the title. This is The Arsenal, not shitty spurs, but we have fans who will jump for joy in May, if we finish in the top four. Imagine Charlie George or Frank Mclintock celebrating qualifying for a competition, of course they wouldn't, because they were winners. This current club is managed by a loser, and supported by a lot of fans who are losers also. WENGER OUT.

He's not a win-at-all-costs bloke any more and at this sort of level that is a must.

[BFG4]

Anyone who is interested, Arsenal fan TV have put up another video with Claude and Ty. This Ty fella is the king of AKB'S, how deluded can you get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkWLCjY ... 68godcE7MQ

[the playing mantis]

Anyone who is interested, Arsenal fan TV have put up another video with Claude and Ty. This Ty fella is the king of AKB'S, how deluded can you get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkWLCjY ... 68godcE7MQ

not sure ty is deluded, more like retarded. clearly not the sharpest tool in the box

[QuartzGooner]

I do not think Wenger's success is a myth.

He took a good look at what he inherited, knew it was good, and did not tinker too much.
He put together the vast majority of the 2004 Invincibles.

He brought in some all time great players...Henry, Pires, Vieira..and some lesser but still very decent players too - Petit, Ljungberg, Overmars, Edu, Gilberto, Wiltord, Toure, Kanu, Lauren, Sagna and others.

I just think that whilst relative financial decline and the effort to build the new stadium played a part 2006 onwards, the influence of Dein towards the playing side as well as the business side surely was a part of the equation?

Look how we slipped once Dein left.

I do not think Wenger was a charlatan whilst winning three League titles, but I do think Wenger is not the man he was prior to Dein leaving and the break up of the 2007-2008 team.

I think that all took a lot out of him which he has never regained.

[dPmunky]

Anyone who is interested, Arsenal fan TV have put up another video with Claude and Ty. This Ty fella is the king of AKB'S, how deluded can you get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkWLCjY ... 68godcE7MQ

not sure ty is deluded, more like retarded. clearly not the sharpest tool in the box

ha! check out robbies interview with ty following the 0-6 drubbing at chelsea!!!!!

[SteveO 35]

I just think that whilst relative financial decline and the effort to build the new stadium played a part 2006 onwards, the influence of Dein towards the playing side as well as the business side surely was a part of the equation?

Look how we slipped once Dein left.

I do not think Wenger was a charlatan whilst winning three League titles, but I do think Wenger is not the man he was prior to Dein leaving and the break up of the 2007-2008 team.

I think that all took a lot out of him which he has never regained.

Hmmm......an interesting reversal on Dein's role. Seem to remember being shot down in flames for suggesting his departure was a key trigger in our demise!

You never know Quartz.....at this rate you might end up agreeing that Diarra was a decent player fucked off too soon by TOO !

[Bradywasking]

angryboy says 18/11/14 11:00pm

The first England goal was a work of football Beauty and Art. Made by my beloved Arsenal. Thank you the great Mr Wenger as I now believe England can win the Euros as well as Arsenal doing the triple.


From Sky Sports website...presume he is joking

[QuartzGooner]

Look how we slipped once Dein left.

Hmmm......an interesting reversal on Dein's role. Seem to remember being shot down in flames for suggesting his departure was a key trigger in our demise!

You never know Quartz.....at this rate you might end up agreeing that Diarra was a decent player....

I do not know who criticised you for the suggestion that's Dein's departure was linked to our decline, but it was not me.

When Dein left I thought it would be bad for us, and have had letters published on another site bemoaning his departure going back some years.

Many on this Forum and elsewhere in the Arsenal cybersphere share that view....what poster has had a pop at you for slighting Dein's departure, I venture there would not be many who have?

I have always also said that Diarra was a good player, strong in the tackle and able to play well in two positions.

His departure was not because of his ability, it was because of his vocally anti-Wenger stance at the training ground at Flamini being prefered in midfield, as I have written on here many times.

So if you feel like having a go at me then by all means do so Steve O, but at least base your fight on something I have actually made a point of writing.

[SteveO 35]

Look how we slipped once Dein left.

Hmmm......an interesting reversal on Dein's role. Seem to remember being shot down in flames for suggesting his departure was a key trigger in our demise!

You never know Quartz.....at this rate you might end up agreeing that Diarra was a decent player....

I do not know who criticised you for the suggestion that's Dein's departure was linked to our decline, but it was not me.

When Dein left I thought it would be bad for us, and have had letters published on another site bemoaning his departure going back some years.

Many on this Forum and elsewhere in the Arsenal cybersphere share that view....what poster has had a pop at you for slighting Dein's departure, I venture there would not be many who have?

I have always also said that Diarra was a good player, strong in the tackle and able to play well in two positions.

His departure was not because of his ability, it was because of his vocally anti-Wenger stance at the training ground at Flamini being prefered in midfield, as I have written on here many times.

So if you feel like having a go at me then by all means do so Steve O, but at least base your fight on something I have actually made a point of writing.

Apologies if it wasn't you about Dein - could have sworn it was. There were many on here (not just a few) that went on and on about "if he loved the club why did he sell his shares" etc and made him out to be some sort of mercenary which as far as I am concerned was absolute bollocks. If someone is being squeezed out in the boardroom then that would be a natural thing to do in many businesses - it happens day in, day out, where a main board director has a major falling out with the rest of the board and sells up.

There were also more than a few who went on about him suggesting we should be tenants at Wembley rather than indebting ourselves up to the eyeballs with a new stadium. Whilst Wembley would never be popular, in my opinion he knew the constraints that the debt would place on the club and so it has proved as our decline could almost be traced to the day we left Highbury.

Too fucking right that Diara criticised Wenger too - his departure was the tipping point for me as There's Only One Coach of the Decade managed to alienate all 3 of our CDMs in six months and spent as much replacing them on an 18 year old Aaron Ramsey and fucking Alex Mong. All it proved when Diarra was bombed was that thou shall not criticise the main who has worked in football for 30 years.....

[DB10GOONER]

My biggest criticism of Wenger is that he has became a loser over the past 10 years. Back in the 2002/2003 season, we won the FA cup, but in the season review, Wenger was bitterly disappointed not to win the league, fast forward 11 years, and our once great manager accepts top four finishes like trophies, and makes no realistic attempt to even challenge for the title. This is The Arsenal, not shitty spurs, but we have fans who will jump for joy in May, if we finish in the top four. Imagine Charlie George or Frank Mclintock celebrating qualifying for a competition, of course they wouldn't, because they were winners. This current club is managed by a loser, and supported by a lot of fans who are losers also. WENGER OUT.

He's not a win-at-all-costs bloke any more and at this sort of level that is a must.

True. And I think it may be down to the fact he is older, less hungry, maybe less ambitious to a certain extent. People change. Arsene is a different person to who he was nearly 20 years ago. There is a big difference in world view, desires, needs, etc between a 45 year old man and a 65 year old man, for example. Think of the person you were 20 years ago, I'd venture it is very different to the one you are now. I mean, Spuddy was a woman for a start!

[Theoperator]

A lot of Wenger's success was enhanced by the fact he took on and beat Ferguson, refs and the FA. Whatever our feelings about him now back then we were delighted with a top six and UEFA Cup place. I would accept that his initial success was based on who he inherited at the back. His own ideas at that time regarding stretching and diet were revolutionary , he added flair going forward with the solid defence to back it up. Yet the 97-98 Double may not have happened if we had not lost to Blackburn in November/December 97 . It was then that the leader on the pitch stood up and was counted. There was where Wenger got lucky , and that is where we are lacking now. There is no leader.
The years between the two doubles, 98-99 apart, were dreary. There were players signed that I cannot remember .

I would give Wenger credit for the achievements of 98 to 04. I think he gave up all too easily when Chelsea became rich. He was presented with a chance to accept failure and I am not saying that was his intention but he accepted that chance too readily. It was as if Chelsea's new found wealth allowed Wenger to take some high moral ground on financial doping. The decline began then. In 2005 we finished second, six points ahead of Man Utd despite referees handing them six points against us. In two years United were champions and we were happy to get into Champions League . This was Wenger's greatest failing. We as a club stopped competing , and the malaise set in that is still there today.

Wenger as a manager has to take full responsibility for all his years at Arsenal, so despite giving him credit for his first seven or so years his failures, on so many fronts , since then has to mark his tenure as a failure also.

Spot on mate, especially the middle part. Wenger is utterly obsessed with "Fairness" and seems to have become increasingly so, which I am sure had made him loose his focus.

The 4th place shit CL has in large part seen to us competitively, its good enough to qualify for the CL, rather than aim for the PL 1st spot. The massive frustration last year was that the double actually was there for the taking, quite why the twit didnt go stronger for it and go out in glory confirms that hes lost the plot.

[augie]

Look how we slipped once Dein left.

Hmmm......an interesting reversal on Dein's role. Seem to remember being shot down in flames for suggesting his departure was a key trigger in our demise!

You never know Quartz.....at this rate you might end up agreeing that Diarra was a decent player....

I do not know who criticised you for the suggestion that's Dein's departure was linked to our decline, but it was not me.

When Dein left I thought it would be bad for us, and have had letters published on another site bemoaning his departure going back some years.

Many on this Forum and elsewhere in the Arsenal cybersphere share that view....what poster has had a pop at you for slighting Dein's departure, I venture there would not be many who have?

I have always also said that Diarra was a good player, strong in the tackle and able to play well in two positions.

His departure was not because of his ability, it was because of his vocally anti-Wenger stance at the training ground at Flamini being prefered in midfield, as I have written on here many times.

So if you feel like having a go at me then by all means do so Steve O, but at least base your fight on something I have actually made a point of writing.

Apologies if it wasn't you about Dein - could have sworn it was. There were many on here (not just a few) that went on and on about "if he loved the club why did he sell his shares" etc and made him out to be some sort of mercenary which as far as I am concerned was absolute bollocks. If someone is being squeezed out in the boardroom then that would be a natural thing to do in many businesses - it happens day in, day out, where a main board director has a major falling out with the rest of the board and sells up.

There were also more than a few who went on about him suggesting we should be tenants at Wembley rather than indebting ourselves up to the eyeballs with a new stadium. Whilst Wembley would never be popular, in my opinion he knew the constraints that the debt would place on the club and so it has proved as our decline could almost be traced to the day we left Highbury.

Too fucking right that Diara criticised Wenger too - his departure was the tipping point for me as There's Only One Coach of the Decade managed to alienate all 3 of our CDMs in six months and spent as much replacing them on an 18 year old Aaron Ramsey and fucking Alex Mong. All it proved when Diarra was bombed was that thou shall not criticise the main who has worked in football for 30 years.....

Best post you have submitted for a while steve (wouldnt be a tough task i know )

DD was THE driving force in The Arsenal (before it became arsene fc ltd ) - for people to even moan about the negative his departure had on le cock, is to ignore all the behind the scenes work he was doing. Our old board (c.unts) went from totally opposing bringing wiggy on board WITH THEM, to selling up lock stock and barrel as soon as the £££ signs lit up their eyes. DD would not have stood back and silently allowed our club to ignore become a profit making machine over a proper football club

Quartz, I will also add that if you track bost the posts about DD, there are more than 50% anti the man - there are precious few of us that still fight his corner

[DB10GOONER]

DD wasn't perfect. The Wembley thing in particular was absolute shite. So let's not lose our shit sucking his dick. No one is perfect. But tbh his positive influences on the club far far outweighed his negative ones. Yes he was a rich man, but his priority was a successful Arsenal winning things and THAT'S the kind of board member you need in the board room.

There is no denying the move to The Conglomerates made us a money-rich club and a successful business, but equally there is no denying the move was to the detriment of the footballing side. Pimped out little clubs like the chav and citeh have overtaken us on the world stage in the last 10 years. DD saw that possibility/probability. But it's too simplistic to just blame the business side and the board. There is no denying Wenger has also contributed hugely to the downward spiral of our team (beyond the obvious shitness of his tactics etc) with bad investment in too many poor quality players, persisting with those poor quality players long past what made sense, and overpaying same despite little or no return from them. Wenger wasted too much of the money that was available, all to promote his ego-driven project.

[QuartzGooner]

No worries Steve O.

I have been very much a "Pro-Dein" man on here, even though I fully understand how his position on the board became untenable because of the pre-amble to his departure and see that the board had no choice but to push him out, any business would.

Whilst Dein dragged the club's business and marketing sides into the modern era, it retained a family feel, and he was football first.
He is a self confessed football obsessive, travelling overseas to take in games if Arsenal had no game, in the days before widespread satellite coverage.
He attended nearly all Arsenal reserve games and many youth games, even women's games, and of the board I believe only Richard Carr took as much of a hands-on approach on the non-first team footballing side.

I tell again the story of how when I was queuing up from the early morning for my 1993 Cup Final replay ticket, the turnstiles were to open at 9am.

Many had been there all night, I got there about 6am.

At about 8.30 Dein was walking in the street, having left the club offices. He was looking at the long queue of people, presumably many who needed to get to work as soon as possible.

He spoke briefly to a couple of fans, then conferred with some stewards, then gave the order to open the turnstiles right away to sell the tickets.

A small and perhaps minor detail, but one that showed me he was switched on and pragmatic.

A rich man but so what?
He inherited his wealth, but there is no sin in that, his father made it legitimately.

And yes, he was in favour of the new stadium but not in the way or the timing it was done in, because he could see the burden of debt, all be it structured debt, that would occur impacting on the football side of the club.
That at a time five years before the Oligarchs moved in.

He favoured a move when the club had accumulated more capital so as to lessen the borrowing.

The Wembley move for two seasons Champions League was worth a go, try it and see what happens was the view.

It meant 73,000 fans could watch us at a time when only 38,500 normally could, that was the benefit.
I reckon in the following from our emerging success under Wenger, that was the first chance a new generation of fans, less wealthy fans than many season ticket holders, had to see us live.

The loss was the lack of familiarity of the surroundings and the poor transport links.