THE WENGER THREAD

[clockender1]

PHW was Hill Samuel and Nat West wasn't he ?

[Theoperator]

Time for bed Ikechukwu1, time for bed.

Sure that dirt can be dug about anyone, but would prefer Atilla the Hun to Stan at the moment, even Nick Leeson

[QuartzGooner]

Diamond Danny Fiszman was top
Dog. The cash funnelled by him was funded by the blood diamond trade, a trade . Peter Hill-Wood was honcho at a financial institution that frequently sold arms to despotic regimes and again, led to thousands of deaths worldwide.

Please provide links.

Can you prove Danny Fiszman dealt in Blood Diamonds?

What institution regarding Hill-Wood?
Hambros?
An investment bank, not registered as an arms dealer.

Danny Fiszman's diamonds were hugely sourced from what was known back then as Zaire. The info is freely available. Fiszman's deals were in mainly Zairan, ****** Leonean and Israeli diamonds. He was a diamond dealer mate, and considering over 70% of the world's diamonds are conflict diamonds.
Fiszman was also subject to a lawsuit for his shocking treatment if employees...

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/dis ... 9/2406684/

The conflict rages on still today in what is now DR Congo

As for the Hambros comment, you do understand the purpose of investment banks do you not? They don't "register" as arms dealers.

Do you not remember that Hambros continued to do business with the apartheid regime of South Africa even after sanctions? This is documented.

There are various figures floating around about Blood Diamonds.
The percentage of Diamonds which are Blood Diamonds are estimated to be less than 25% in some articles.
Others say every single diamond in the world is a blood diamond.
It is possible Fiszman never handled a Blood Diamond.

Israeli does not have diamond mines, it has a diamond exchange and used to cut/polish a lot of diamonds but that trade is now declining as it moves to India. Israel is in the Kimberly Certification scheme against the Blood Diamond trade.

I have looked and found nothing about Fiszman's treating an employee badly.
There was a lawsuit that a manager (not Fiszman) at Fiszman's firm was bullying an employee.

Investment banks invest in many things.
I dare say some do invest in arms, others in illegal trade using front companies, but again, I can find nothing online about an arms or South African connection for Hambros.
I am not disputing your claim nor confirming it, but I cannot find anything that mentions it.
I may read that book one day.

Some of Arsenal's money is open to question.

Samuel Hill-Wood was a cotton magnate.
Might he have befitted from African-American Jim Crow labour?

Sir Henry Norris got round the FFP wage cap regulations of the time to pay Charlie Buchan more than he was allowed by FA regulations.
Though that may fair conduct depending on ones point of view.

The Bracewell-Smith/Carr family differ, they made their money in the property and hotel industries.

[Ikechukwu1]

Diamond Danny Fiszman was top
Dog. The cash funnelled by him was funded by the blood diamond trade, a trade that has led to million of African kids having their hands chopped off, limbs dismembered and a conflict in ****** Leone that killed thousands. It's helped warlords fund wars and propped up dictatorships. Peter Hill-Wood was honcho at a financial institution that frequently sold arms to despotic regimes and again, led to thousands of deaths worldwide.

Please provide links.

Can you prove Danny Fiszman dealt in Blood Diamonds?

What institution regarding Hill-Wood?
Hambros?
An investment bank, not registered as an arms dealer.

Danny Fiszman's diamonds were hugely sourced from what was known back then as Zaire. The info is freely available. Fiszman's deals were in mainly Zairan, ****** Leonean and Israeli diamonds. He was a diamond dealer mate, and considering over 70% of the world's diamonds are conflict diamonds.
Fiszman was also subject to a lawsuit for his shocking treatment if employees...

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/dis ... 9/2406684/

The conflict rages on still today in what is now DR Congo

As for the Hambros comment, you do understand the purpose of investment banks do you not? They don't "register" as arms dealers.

Do you not remember that Hambros continued to do business with the apartheid regime of South Africa even after sanctions? This is documented.

There are various figures floating around about Blood Diamonds.
The percentage of Diamonds which are Blood Diamonds are estimated to be less than 25% in some articles.
Others say every single diamond in the world is a blood diamond.
It is possible Fiszman never handled a Blood Diamond.

Israeli does not have diamond mines, it has a diamond exchange and used to cut/polish a lot of diamonds but that trade is now declining as it moves to India. Israel is in the Kimberly Certification scheme against the Blood Diamond trade.

I have looked and found nothing about Fiszman's treating an employee badly.
There was a lawsuit that a manager (not Fiszman) at Fiszman's firm was bullying an employee.

Investment banks invest in many things.
I dare say some do invest in arms, others in illegal trade using front companies, but again, I can find nothing online about an arms or South African connection for Hambros.
I am not disputing your claim nor confirming it, but I cannot find anything that mentions it.
I may read that book one day.

Some of Arsenal's money is open to question.

Samuel Hill-Wood was a cotton magnate.
Might he have befitted from African-American Jim Crow labour?

Sir Henry Norris got round the FFP wage cap regulations of the time to pay Charlie Buchan more than he was allowed by FA regulations.
Though that may fair conduct depending on ones point of view.

The Bracewell-Smith/Carr family differ, they made their money in the property and hotel industries.

Respectfully, you're being misleading. It isn't possible Fiszman never handled a conflict diamond. It's also false that anyone says only 25% of diamonds are conflict when the UN says the minimum is 50%. Where are you getting such figures??
Israel is the exchange he used, not the source. That was Zaire, S Africa etc. Fiszman's company mined in South Africa even during apartheid. Please don't try and make excuses for this. To say Danny could have never handled one is laughable.
Hambros bank did so much business with South Africa it ended up being bought out by Investec - a South African bank. Check online again please.
The link you were sent Clearly implicates Fiszman in the suit for negligence. You didn't read it proprerly or you'd have seen this:
"Klein states that although Fiszman was present for much of the abuse Klein was subjected to by Polak, he did nothing to discourage Polak and thus aided and abetted Polak's unlawful acts."

Look I'll leave it here as I don't wanna turn this into politics but the denialism over Fiszman is a little embarrassing IMO. I respect ur right to defend Fiszman but not to twist what the world know about the diamond trade.
Going back to the topic, Arsenal's money is NOT clean it never has been. We are not morally superior to Chelski, not whilst Kroenke owns us. Usmsnov is no dirtier than Kroenke and ultimately, disagree with the point that nothing will change even if Wenger leaves.

Plenty would change.

[Robin_L]

Getting rid of Wenger won't make it a level playing field with Chelsea or City - .

but employing someone who doesn't lose to Stoke, norwich, swansea (three times), bradford, blackburn, donetsk, schalke, dortmund, birmingham etc might.

Will the next manager be allowed to lose to Stoke and Swansea a couple of times before you turn on him then? Or is it 100% win record against these teams from now on

[QuartzGooner]

Respectfully, you're being misleading. It isn't possible Fiszman never handled a conflict diamond. It's also false that anyone says only 25% of diamonds are conflict when the UN says the minimum is 50%. Where are you getting such figures??
Israel is the exchange he used, not the source. That was Zaire, S Africa etc. Fiszman's company mined in South Africa even during apartheid. Please don't try and make excuses for this. To say Danny could have never handled one is laughable.
Hambros bank did so much business with South Africa it ended up being bought out by Investec - a South African bank. Check online again please.
The link you were sent Clearly implicates Fiszman in the suit for negligence. You didn't read it proprerly or you'd have seen this:
"Klein states that although Fiszman was present for much of the abuse Klein was subjected to by Polak, he did nothing to discourage Polak and thus aided and abetted Polak's unlawful acts."

Look I'll leave it here as I don't wanna turn this into politics but the denialism over Fiszman is a little embarrassing IMO. I respect ur right to defend Fiszman but not to twist what the world know about the diamond trade.

I merely pointed out that the figures for Blood Diamonds vary wildly, and the UN appear to have taken an estimate.
Which is what it surely would be, as those who trade in Blood Diamonds hardly label them as such, they sneak them into non-Blood Diamond batches and get false certificates for them.

I do not know if Fiszman mined in South Africa during apartheid, I have only your word.
Might it be argued that he was therefore providing employment for Black South Africans if this was the case?

I see what you have sourced about the Fiszman court case.
I did not see that when I scanned through the page I found but as you are a lawyer you will know that is what the litigant Klein alleged.
What was Fiszman's side of the story though?

Since posting I have found a few links to Hambros and South Africa.
And many other wilder allegations too.

It is possible.

But Peter Hill-Wood's Arsenal money/shares were inherited, not gained as a result of his merchant banking career.

I did not know Fiszman, but I know that strong claims of illegal activity cannot be thrown around without some sourcing.

So no embarrasment on my part there.

On a tangent, how clean are any of us?

Do you have any Apple products?
Not so nice labour practices in their Chinese factories eh?

Ever worn a Nike product?
Sweatshop allegations too.

"In 1986, while apartheid was suffering worldwide opprobrium, South Africa’s main trading partners were, U.S.A. - $3.4 billion, Japan - $2.9 billion, Germany- $2.8 billion, U.K. - $2.6 billion. In defending Britain’s position at the time, Sir Alec Douglas Home referred to Britain's heavy investment in South Africa and the strategic importance of naval facilities at Simonstown." (1.)

Ever bought petrol from a BP, Esso or Shell garage?

Or bought a roll of camera film by Fuji?

All sued by South African lawyers for doing business with South Africa during Apartheid.


(1.) http://www.2nd-thoughts.org/id26.html

[northbank123]

PHW was Hill Samuel and Nat West wasn't he ?

The fat fuck still used to take £75,000 a year from the club for watching us getting brownholed by that greedy prick Kroenke after he sold his birthright. I fucking detest the wanker, some fucking custodian of the club he was.

[OneBardGooner]

Does all this mean Wenger is gonna stay or leave!?


Actually I'm sure one of the wrist watches Wenger wears has a diamond in it -and there's one in the toggle of his Zipper on his coat!

That's enuff for me...

WENGER OUT!

[Swifty]

The history of Wenger......
Not so nice football - getting good results
Nice football - getting great results
Nice football - getting ok results
Not so nice football - getting ok results
Not so nice football - getting mediocre results
............nearing the end of the bell curve
I could live with any and all of the above apart from the latest entry with all respect to señor Sanchez who deserves a better cast.

[Swifty]

addendum - I will live with anything to be fair. If Arsenal was knocking around in the conference id still support every game just to be clear however....enjoy.....??!?

[DB10GOONER]

The history of Wenger......
Not so nice football - getting good results
Stunning football - getting great results
Nice football - getting ok results
Not so nice football - getting ok results
Not so nice football - getting mediocre results
............nearing the end of the bell curve
I could live with any and all of the above apart from the latest entry with all respect to señor Sanchez who deserves a better cast.

One correction!

[Swifty]

The history of Wenger......
Not so nice football - getting good results
Stunning football - getting great results
Nice football - getting ok results
Not so nice football - getting ok results
Not so nice football - getting mediocre results
............nearing the end of the bell curve
I could live with any and all of the above apart from the latest entry with all respect to señor Sanchez who deserves a better cast.

One correction!

Fair call - I'm literally just back from playing summer 6s, having a drink and about to jump in the pool as the clock passes 11.10pm.

[clockender1]

Will the next manager be allowed to lose to Stoke and Swansea a couple of times before you turn on him then? Or is it 100% win record against these teams from now on

for highest ticket prices in football, what should we expect ? - are you suggesting we accept mediocrity as a norm ?

you my friend are part of the problem, we should NEVER lose to Stoke or Swansea or any team on that list given the players and managers wages, the size of our revenues and the high ticket prices.

no offence, but its views like yours that have ruined my club over the last 10 years - gradually you are turning us into spurs, with massive amounts of money spent for small aims.

there will always be upsets, but 4-5 a year is completely unacceptable - as is 4 wins in 11 home games.

[falkirk goon]

Will the next manager be allowed to lose to Stoke and Swansea a couple of times before you turn on him then? Or is it 100% win record against these teams from now on

for highest ticket prices in football, what should we expect ? - are you suggesting we accept mediocrity as a norm ?

you my friend are part of the problem, we should NEVER lose to Stoke or Swansea or any team on that list given the players and managers wages, the size of our revenues and the high ticket prices.

no offence, but its views like yours that have ruined my club over the last 10 years - gradually you are turning us into spurs, with massive amounts of money spent for small aims.

there will always be upsets, but 4-5 a year is completely unacceptable - as is 4 wins in 11 home games.

Well said mate the members of our fanbase who accept/make excuses for the shite weve been served these last few years are as culpable infact they are more culpable than le bulbeye is himself.

[rodders999]

If Wenger had of left 3 years ago and another manager was producing the sh1te currently on display the sheep would be baying for blood. Hypocrites the lot of em, they support the manager not the club