General Election May 7th

[storrmin571]

I've got nothing against people with money or posh people what I hate is pretence, no fucking millionaire public school boys can pretend 'we're in it together' no we aren't they don't suffer the cuts to the NHS and other services like me and others

Absolutely spot on. We had a job last week came in as fire alarms going off, turns out to be an oap fallen on floor whilst cooking, burns to leg, type 1 diabetes, sugar levels at dangerously low levels 1.2, severe back problems and to move her caused considerable pain. Ambulance arrived 2.5 hours later. No fault of the crew just no one to send as its been cut to ribbons by politicians.

[northbank123]

I've got nothing against people with money or posh people what I hate is pretence, no fucking millionaire public school boys can pretend 'we're in it together' no we aren't they don't suffer the cuts to the NHS and other services like me and others

Absolutely spot on. We had a job last week came in as fire alarms going off, turns out to be an oap fallen on floor whilst cooking, burns to leg, type 1 diabetes, sugar levels at dangerously low levels 1.2, severe back problems and to move her caused considerable pain. Ambulance arrived 2.5 hours later. No fault of the crew just no one to send as its been cut to ribbons by politicians.

Surely the point above applies that, even had she been earning and paying millions in taxes her entire life, she would still have been waiting for the same ambulance.

[SPUDMASHER]

I've got nothing against people with money or posh people what I hate is pretence, no fucking millionaire public school boys can pretend 'we're in it together' no we aren't they don't suffer the cuts to the NHS and other services like me and others

Absolutely spot on. We had a job last week came in as fire alarms going off, turns out to be an oap fallen on floor whilst cooking, burns to leg, type 1 diabetes, sugar levels at dangerously low levels 1.2, severe back problems and to move her caused considerable pain. Ambulance arrived 2.5 hours later. No fault of the crew just no one to send as its been cut to ribbons by politicians.

Surely the point above applies that, even had she been earning and paying millions in taxes her entire life, she would still have been waiting for the same ambulance.

Absolutely right. But we shouldn't point out the obvious because that weakens our collective argument against the wealthy.
Public services have been cut dramatically but in honesty the public sector is the most inefficient workplace of them all. Civil servants (anyone working in the public sector basically) have spunked billions up the wall over the years and are now paying the price for it. I recall a hospital local to my home that was complaining about lack of funding for their maternity wing about 10 years ago. This was going on at exactly the same time as the CEO was unveiling a new Henry Moore sculpture that was being placed near the main entrance. Those things cost tens of thousands! Money is wasted daily in the public sector and nobody is ever accountable for it. Do it in the private sector and you get fired.
It's sad to say that cuts in government funding is only part of their problem. A good percentage of the reason is that they're shit at running their business units. Most of the public sector is bankrupt and it's largely down to bad management.

[flash gunner]

The people with money would not have been in that position in the first place ie problems with diabetes which might have caused the collapse in the first place. I'm not against ANYONE who have paid taxes getting treatment or ambulances whenever they are needed that's not the argument the argument is Cameron could afford and probably uses private healthcare so can't tell me we're in it together because we aren't.... I've got an eye condition (nothing serious luckily) but sometimes need to go to an eye casualty dept. and you see some terrible things there blind people, accidents with chemicals in eyes etc. due to cuts from the government the unit is now shut and now I have to travel 50 miles to my nearest eye unit and that's not just me its the blind and accidents too.

Please don't tell me Cameron faces the same problems so we aren't in it together

This is just one example of many I could use

[SPUDMASHER]

To be fair though mate, Cameron couldn't exactly tip up to the nearest A&E department could he. He's the Prime Minister and a top target for anyone that wants to have a pop at him. If you want your name or your cause to live for ever then be the one that dispatches him. Time will always remember your name.
He has to go with a security team and will jump all the queues because a stationary target is an easy one. He, like you and I, pays his taxes so is entitled to use the NHS and as PM is almost obliged to. He is in a no win situation there. If he uses it people will say "He's rich and doesn't need to drain its resources" and if he doesn't they'll say "The NHS is so shit that even he won't use it".

Like I've said before, I'm by no means wealthy but I sometimes use private healthcare. My employer provides it as part of my package. However, my recent eye problem (an ulcer caused by a contact lens) was treated through the NHS as the waiting time was less than with the private eye specialist employed through the company scheme.

I should point out though that as we are both Arsenal Supporters and both have eye problems..........it is Wengers fault! He has made us watch some proper shit for several years now and that has resulted in our poor health. Let's sue him

[flash gunner]

What I'm saying is Cameron due to him being from a wealthy family he isn't in the same boat as me. Forget he's PM and all the security issues for a second he wouldn't suffer with the same problems as me due to the cuts as he can afford to spend his way out of it so for him to tell me we're in it together is a damn right lie.

Fire fighters and teachers have had their pensions screwed due to no fault of their own will this affect anyone in government? No it won't hope you get where I'm coming from

Yeah I'm happy to take Wenger to the cleaners too

[arseofacrow]

What I'm saying is Cameron due to him being from a wealthy family he isn't in the same boat as me. Forget he's PM and all the security issues for a second he wouldn't suffer with the same problems as me due to the cuts as he can afford to spend his way out of it so for him to tell me we're in it together is a damn right lie.

Fire fighters and teachers have had their pensions screwed due to no fault of their own will this affect anyone in government? No it won't hope you get where I'm coming from

Yeah I'm happy to take Wenger to the cleaners too

The situation is that you are paying for the corporate interests covering themselves in the financial crash. They haven't lost out and in most cases gained.

Overspending by Labour was a reality but also a smokescreen for what's really going on now.

I'm also paying my German taxes to cover not the EU mess, but the financial institutions who've made sure that they are covered.

Politics used by corporate interests to protect and enhance their position at the expense of the people - who'd have thought!

[the playing mantis]

What I'm saying is Cameron due to him being from a wealthy family he isn't in the same boat as me. Forget he's PM and all the security issues for a second he wouldn't suffer with the same problems as me due to the cuts as he can afford to spend his way out of it so for him to tell me we're in it together is a damn right lie.

Fire fighters and teachers have had their pensions screwed due to no fault of their own will this affect anyone in government? No it won't hope you get where I'm coming from

Yeah I'm happy to take Wenger to the cleaners too

as much as fighfighters mostly do a good job and nurses mostly do (anyone who has spent a lot of time in hospital will have experience of incompetent, lazy more interested in chatting amongst themselves than helping patients, nurses), i do not care about their golden pensions being hammered. join the real world. why should those in the private sector pay for completely out of proportion pensions for the public sector.

a lot of the public sector sickens me, especially civil servants and those in management of all areas (police, health etc), wasting money clueless and expecting preferential treatment to the private sector, whinging about pay freezes and reduced pensions. well welcome to the real world. the inconvenient truth is that a lot of those especially those who wield a bit of power, in the public sector, are only there as they are not good enough to be in the private sector.

[the playing mantis]

how any sane person can bring themselves to vote labour after the disgusting mess they left this country in on nearly every area is beyond me.

how any sane person can bring themselves to vote conservative after the way they are killing off the NHS is beyond me.

time for a change. you sound like an AKB. we are not doing very well under Conservatives/Wenger but who else is there who can do better?

not really.

the nhs has been a shambles for years dating back to new labours glory time, sure it has fantastic parts but a lot of it is woeful in many others and as a whole is poorly managed and should be better. a major shakeup is needed but successive governments of all colors have been too scared to take it on.

as for wards closing and things like that being blamed on tory cuts, well real spending hasn't gone down, and such decisions are made more often at a local level by those who have mismanaged their budgets.

and this isn't to mention the fact that all infrastructure is pretty much at bursting point due to unsustainable population growth, caused by immigration, an aging population and the massive birth rates in certain groups of society. (and before the anyone says the nhs couldn't function without immigrant workers, fine, i know, a sensible immigration policy would allow those in who are needed and where we have skills gaps, not everyone and anyone)

[DarylAFC]

Immigration, as has been previously mentioned, is an issue as it is but in my eyes we're blaming the wrong people.

People seem all too eager to blame the politicians, but the blame surely must be placed at the employers who employ migrants at lower wages than they would pay Brits. Me and my dad rarely agree on politics but one thing we do agree on is that migrant labour has brought down the wages of HGV drivers. However, he blames the migrants for this when surely it is the business owners who are to blame? They're the one's who have exploited immigration policy to get away with paying their workers less. And these rich guys love it because they know parties like UKIP and the Tories (And Labour nowadays to a point) will never point the finger at them and can use immigration as an issue to divide.

As for "rich bashing" being "jealousy", the fact is that they couldn't give a toss about me, so I have no qualms with them being taxed more. Also, I didn't cause the recession, nor did any workers. The cold hard facts are that all economic problems were caused by the wealthy being greedy and, in an effort to curb this, the Tories have cut spending in ways that effect only the poorest in society. People may call it "jealousy", but really it's fairness.

[northbank123]

What type of major public spending cut is NOT going to affect the poorest in society drastically more than the rich?

And it's not like public spending cuts are financing a scrap in top level income tax, or inheritance tax. It's being done because the current level is completely unsustainable.

Don't even get me started on the public sector.

[Theoperator]

What type of major public spending cut is NOT going to affect the poorest in society drastically more than the rich?

Child benefit cut for high earners

In any case surely most suffer if the NHS gets cut, its a socialist utopia after all

Bit unfair though on Cameron, his son who died was almost if not fully NHS cared for.

Interesting the terrible delay in Ambulance coming for the lady. As she was (I assume) in Wales, and as the health service is pretty much 100% devolved to Wales I assume its the party in charge in Wales that carries the can (Labour )

Not saying that NHS Englands any much better, but TBH if you let all prescriptions be free as they are in Wales that money that would come into NHS Wales has disappeared.

[DarylAFC]

What type of major public spending cut is NOT going to affect the poorest in society drastically more than the rich?And it's not like public spending cuts are financing a scrap in top level income tax, or inheritance tax. It's being done because the current level is completely unsustainable.

Don't even get me started on the public sector.

Stop heating allowance for those that move abroad or have no need for it due to their wealth.
Increase tuition fee's for the kids from well off backgrounds, allowing kids from poorer backgrounds to get in for free without needing student loans.
Stop giving bus passes to those that can easily afford the bus themselves.
Stop child tax credit for those that do not need it.
Stop free school meals for those that can afford meals. Free meals should be reserved only for the families that actually need the help. Actually, that cn be said about ALL benefits. Unless you NEED them, you don't GET them.

[northbank123]

What type of major public spending cut is NOT going to affect the poorest in society drastically more than the rich?And it's not like public spending cuts are financing a scrap in top level income tax, or inheritance tax. It's being done because the current level is completely unsustainable.

Don't even get me started on the public sector.

Stop heating allowance for those that move abroad or have no need for it due to their wealth.
Increase tuition fee's for the kids from well off backgrounds, allowing kids from poorer backgrounds to get in for free without needing student loans.
Stop giving bus passes to those that can easily afford the bus themselves.
Stop child tax credit for those that do not need it.
Stop free school meals for those that can afford meals. Free meals should be reserved only for the families that actually need the help. Actually, that cn be said about ALL benefits. Unless you NEED them, you don't GET them.

The student financing system is already incredibly generous and not really prohibitive to kids from poor backgrounds. You don't pay back unless you earn £17k, you only pay back 9% over that, you only pay back at an inflationary rate. It's not normal debt in the sense that it's going to prevent anybody from making ends meet. On top of that kids from poorer backgrounds get free money from student finance and from the university. South Wales is one of the poorest regions in the UK but there are still a number of universities in a relatively short radius who are crammed full of kids from poorer socio-economic backgrounds.

And why should kids from better off backgrounds pay more? The whole welfare system (nay country) is built on the premise that, at the age of 18, parents cease to become responsible for their kids. Kids go into university with no savings and no income at 18, they come out at 21 or 22 with no savings and no income. The point of the university student financing system is to between those years level the playing field, why should some graduate with significantly more student debt just because their parents had more money??

And my personal view is that we should be wary about pushing kids into university. I know so many people who have gone to (or are in) a shit university doing a shit degree that an employer wouldn't wipe their arse with. And why are they pissing away years and racking up this (qualified) debt? Because going to university is perceived to be the natural progression from school, even though tens of thousands of kids every year would be better off going into work or obtaining a different type of qualification (that's not going to cost £35-40k). And this applies equally to kids from all backgrounds.

Aside from that it basically reads like a hardcore Tory manifesto - cutting benefits, cutting child tax credits - these are exactly the sort of policies that they get hammered for. You can say limit them to those that need them, but what one person perceives to be fair/reasonable will have a million other people up in arms complaining that they can't afford to live.

Policies like reducing the winter fuel allowance for wealthier pensioners (an obvious one by the way) unfortunately do not make a great dent in the deficit. Cutting government spending is always going to hurt some people and cost jobs, but whilst I do have sympathy it's an unfortunate necessity.

[arseofacrow]

NB123 - Mr. Manifesto

On the subject of the country's finances, it's easy politics to target the "spongers". That's not to say there isn't a problem that needs to be addressed, just that there wouldn't be the need for such significant cuts but for the corporate world's excesses: that's the real crime. Politicans are much like football managers - they make out they are in control when in reality they are as much pawns of the system.

Paying more is part of a fair taxation system - find a way to do this as there are many students who lose the opportunity to fully commit themselves due to lack of finances. Just look at the Arts - you can't tell me that danny dyer hasn't suffered through lack of training compared to benedikt cumberbatch.

As for the university system, I wholeheartedly agree with NB123. The growth in university education was in line with what the conservatives first set in motion and New Labour extended - the dumbing down of education, the expansion in shit degrees and the massive increase in numbers, that at the end turn out to obtain more or less worthless degrees, job-wise.

Here in Germany, there is in almost every sector a strong practical and apprenticeship program. The UK needs to look at industries and expertise that we can grow, safeguard or develop in a different direction.