http://www1.skysports.com/football/news ... ay-parlour
The Romford Pele has a dig at our big players, but reading through you wonder if Parlour is aware we actually have a man pocketing £8m per season (plus bonuses) who trains these players and is ultimately responsible.
Another ex player who enjoys his club privileges who dares not to criticise the clueless messiah.
THE WENGER THREAD
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foxinthebox2001
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:24 am
- Location: Beyond the Wall.
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officepest
- Posts: 5072
- Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:27 am
- Location: Lacking a little bit of sharpness in the final third.
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
Arsene Wenger needs change his style and be more ruthless if he is to have more success, says former Arsenal defender Mikael Silvestre.
The Gunners boss was criticised after his side’s shock 3-1 defeat at home to Monaco in the Champions League.
Silvestre, 37, who won the Champions League with Manchester United, believes Wenger is too relaxed with his players.
“It brings confusion because they don’t take responsibility,” he told BBC Radio 5Live.
Good God – if the fucking Mekon is handing out advice you know it must be bad. What an ungrateful bastard; Arsene was gracious enough to give this useless lump a pension when he should have been sent to the knacker’s yard and this is how he repays him?
The Gunners boss was criticised after his side’s shock 3-1 defeat at home to Monaco in the Champions League.
Silvestre, 37, who won the Champions League with Manchester United, believes Wenger is too relaxed with his players.
“It brings confusion because they don’t take responsibility,” he told BBC Radio 5Live.
Good God – if the fucking Mekon is handing out advice you know it must be bad. What an ungrateful bastard; Arsene was gracious enough to give this useless lump a pension when he should have been sent to the knacker’s yard and this is how he repays him?
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Theoperator
- Posts: 2419
- Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:58 pm
- Location: In the tube, rather late again......
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
Bob Wilson the same mate on Radio4 8.30 this morning " Arsene will leave when arsene wants to". Spent a while saying what a gentleman he is. I know Bobs been bought big time, but shocking how he gets wheeled out at these sort of timesfoxinthebox2001 wrote:http://www1.skysports.com/football/news ... ay-parlour
The Romford Pele has a dig at our big players, but reading through you wonder if Parlour is aware we actually have a man pocketing £8m per season (plus bonuses) who trains these players and is ultimately responsible.
Another ex player who enjoys his club privileges who dares not to criticise the clueless messiah.
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QuartzGooner
- Posts: 14474
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 pm
- Location: London
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
Wilson is not wrong though.Theoperator wrote: Bob Wilson the same mate on Radio4 8.30 this morning " Arsene will leave when arsene wants to". Spent a while saying what a gentleman he is.
The only person other than Wenger who can get him to leave the job is Kroenke, who made his decision by offering Wenger a three year deal last summer.
Anyone hoping for one of our main former players under Wenger, or ex players who are linked to the club, to openly criticise Wenger, can forget about it.
The closest we have had is Wright and even that was mild, and Dixon being cryptic with some comments that were discussed on this thread about 20 pages ago.
The ex-players know exactly what they are seeing, some of them know exactly what happens in training because they still know players at the club, but they simply will not criticise Wenger in public to any great extent.
It does not bother me, because we live in the real world where people have personal and business relationships.
What is written on this Forum by people using nom-de-cybers is not what those in the Arsenal fold will say in public.
We do not need any ex-players to criticise Wenger.
It would be in vain, nothing would be achieved.
Unless there is a shock resignation of a special scenario, such as if Wenger had a health issue, Wenger is in charge until summer 2017 and that is that.
I write this periodically on here.
I have become as much of a broken record as our fourth place finishes.
(Note to younger readers.
We used to listen to music on vinyl discs, known as records.
These transmitted sound by means of stylus/needle at the end of a tone arm, which would track through grooves in the disc and the resultant vibrations would be magically converted into sound waves by a very small wizard who lived inside the record player.
If there was a scratch or bump in one of those grooves, the needle could end up going round the same groove time and time again, causing the listener to hear a repeated loop of a few seconds of sound.
It was remedied when someone hit the record player, or gently nudged the needle.)
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VAVAVOOM 14
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:38 pm
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
QuartzGooner wrote: I write this periodically on here.
I have become as much of a broken record as our fourth place finishes.
(Note to younger readers.
We used to listen to music on vinyl discs, known as records.
These transmitted sound by means of stylus/needle at the end of a tone arm, which would track through grooves in the disc and the resultant vibrations would be magically converted into sound waves by a very small wizard who lived inside the record player.
If there was a scratch or bump in one of those grooves, the needle could end up going round the same groove time and time again, causing the listener to hear a repeated loop of a few seconds of sound.
It was remedied when someone hit the record player, or gently nudged the needle.)
Soooo....Are you saying the only way to get rid of Wenger and our incessant 4th place finishes is to assail him?
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Yankee_Gooner_Dandee
- Posts: 2902
- Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:04 pm
- Location: Chicago, Illinois
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
burley's a dick but he's right here. mariner needs to wake up.
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GranadaJoe
- Posts: 2412
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:21 pm
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
A good article by Tom Adams on Yahoo. Long but accurate. I agree with every word.
Arsenal trapped in cycle of despair - and there's only one way to break it
Tom Adams says Arsenal are trapped a time-loop of disappointment and it all stems from one man: Arsene Wenger.
On a night when Arsene Wenger's past intruded rudely to provoke ever more searching questions about his future, Arsenal's propensity for disaster returned to demonstrate that despite any recent improvement, this club remains stuck in a time-loop of perpetual disappointment.
The opposition, a heroic Monaco who wrung every last bit of effort from a patched-up and unfamiliar XI, served as a reminder that Wenger hasn't always been Arsenal manager, he isn't umbilically linked to the club. People have been born, passed through puberty and procreated in the time he has been Arsenal boss, but his reign is finite. There is a post-Wenger future for Arsenal and this result may have accelerated progress towards it, or at least intensified the desire to see what it might look like.
After what must be considered one of his worst ever European nights - a night which reinforced the feeling that one of modern football's most visionary and influential coaches will never win a European trophy - a recurring question arose: what could another manager do with this group of players? A manager able to instil defensive discipline and address the glaring inadequacies in his team's structure and mentality, that have persisted for far too long.
Arsenal have two of the world's most gilded talents in Alexis Sanchez and Mesut Ozil, who last night were compromised by the systemic failure of the whole and were unable to function together. They have, in players of the ilk of Santi Cazorla and Tomas Rosicky, ball-players of supreme quality. In Jack Wilshere and Aaron Ramsey they have two young men who, if their talent is fully unlocked, could be giants of the game. They have a defence that... okay, maybe not the defence.
But the point stands about Arsenal's quality, and in the era of FFP they are in a formidable position - largely thanks to Wenger's vision and patience, it must be said - with a hugely profitable stadium and burgeoning commercial and TV income. Everything is geared for success. Everything, yet catastrophe remains endemic.
There is little to commend Jose Mourinho for his gratuitous snipe at Wenger on Goals on Sunday but the broad thrust of his logic was surely correct: "Arsenal? I don't understand why they are not where we are with Man City. I like their team very much, very good players, Alexis [Sanchez] and [Danny] Welbeck added to what they already had - a very good squad. In this moment he [Wenger] has a dream job that we would all love to have. Every manager in the world would love to have stability he has year after year with a chance to buy, to sell, to rebuild, to wait for success... and wait and wait. I think he has dream job.
“Obviously a fantastic manager and in a fantastic situation to be successful. Look at the players, look at the squad, they have to win because it's fantastic. Why haven't they been successful [recently]? I don’t know. They are capable of playing very good football. Talented players, goals from midfield and the sides. Such a squad in terms of quality and numbers, and look at the attacking options they have - [Alex] Oxlade-Chamberlain, [Mesut] Ozil, [Theo] Walcott, [Santi] Cazorla, [Tomas] Rosicky, Alexis [Sanchez] - unbelievable number of options.”
Mourinho is right. Concerns over their sporadically ramshackle defence aside, this is a squad deep with talent, but which now has a 1.5% chance of getting past Monaco to reach the quarter-finals. European adventure has been deferred again. Instead, selfies will be splashed across Instagram when fourth place is secured so it can happen all over again, and the horror of this disturbingly bad performance against Monaco will eventually fade into the ether. But it should not be forgotten: Monaco were playing with a vastly weakened XI and any serious club would not have come close to conceding three times to them at home.
Every distinct passage of this performance was flawed. The listless and careless first half which produced not a single shot on target; the error-strewn start to the second half as Olivier Giroud appeared to disintegrate before our very eyes; the inevitable Monaco goal on the break; the bizarrely anaemic response to that goal; and, after a flurry of excitement following Oxlade-Chamberlain's late strike, the utter incompetence to allow a third so late, again taken apart on the break.
There was arguably a case for pressing for a second, even with so little time to play, given the unlikelihood of scoring twice in Monaco against a side so impermeable as this. Last weekend’s match against Crystal Palace and Glenn Murray’s late, late header against the post may have served as inspiration. But Arsenal had to pursue another goal intelligently, not throw everyone forward then allow Oxlade-Chamberlain to get ganged up on, forcing an error, and being ruthlessly exposed on the counter. Again.
This three-minute vignette was Arsenal in microcosm. Emergent hope, the promise of redemption from the boot of a brilliant but flawed young talent, only to be brutally and predictably crushed by a more street-smart opponent.
Arsenal are football's Prometheus, except their eternal torment is not to have their liver pecked out every day by eagles, but to be caught, naively, high up the pitch, with opponents surging on a swift counter to exploit gaps in the Arsenal defence which could have been safely navigated by one of the super yachts moored in Monaco's harbour. This is how Arsenal fans experience football. And it never, ever, ends. Catastrophe stalks every match. Disaster lurks in the shadows. Especially when, time and again, they are so utterly naive when it comes to defending.
Trying to elicit sympathy for the FA Cup holders is not an easy pitch to fans of around 88 other clubs but Arsenal should be doing so much better than this. Their history and their current circumstances demand it. Austerity is over and with the players at their disposal it is not unreasonable to expect a proper title challenge or a foray deep into the Champions League.
But Arsenal have embraced mediocrity under Wenger and nobody embodies that better than Giroud. A club with a proud recent lineage of forwards from Ian Wright, through Dennis Bergkamp, Thierry Henry and Robin van Persie cannot be content with a centre-forward with as many flaws as the Frenchman. As a Plan B he is acceptable, but Giroud will never be the kind of world-class striker that Arsenal need. He will not win a title.
The Arsenal PR machine has been out in force to talk Giroud up since his two goals against Middlesbrough. Wenger has fulsome in his praise last weekend while Mikel Arteta - captain, which tells its own story - joined in in last night's programme: "he has taken big strides forward in his three seasons here ... I think he's made a very good improvement over the years and his goalscoring record is getting better and better. I think he has improved in all aspects of his game."
It certainly did not feel like that when, after an hour of play, the crowd were baying for his removal after three excellent chances were wasted, each better than the one which preceded it. When Wenger took him off it was a merciful act. His head was in his hands and he was broken. You could not doing anything but sympathise with Giroud. But try to imagine that happening to a striker of genuine substance.
So bad was Arsenal’s performance, in fact, that Wenger broke with tradition to actually criticise his players. He cited “suicidal defending”, explaining: "It looks like we have lost our nerve and our rationality on the pitch. The heart took over the head and at that level it doesn't work. Our weakness was more down to mentality.”
Transferring blame to the players is legitimate, especially after such a horrid display, but this is a modern super club, or at least an institution which has designs on the title, which has been reshaped from top to bottom by one man. Wenger has established the training sessions, the dietary regimes, the matchday protocol, the recruitment strategy, the playing style. He even designed the shape of the dressing rooms. Any systemic or mental failure is by extension his. And as the cycle of despair continues, seemingly for eternity, it’s clear there is only one way to break it.
Arsenal trapped in cycle of despair - and there's only one way to break it
Tom Adams says Arsenal are trapped a time-loop of disappointment and it all stems from one man: Arsene Wenger.
On a night when Arsene Wenger's past intruded rudely to provoke ever more searching questions about his future, Arsenal's propensity for disaster returned to demonstrate that despite any recent improvement, this club remains stuck in a time-loop of perpetual disappointment.
The opposition, a heroic Monaco who wrung every last bit of effort from a patched-up and unfamiliar XI, served as a reminder that Wenger hasn't always been Arsenal manager, he isn't umbilically linked to the club. People have been born, passed through puberty and procreated in the time he has been Arsenal boss, but his reign is finite. There is a post-Wenger future for Arsenal and this result may have accelerated progress towards it, or at least intensified the desire to see what it might look like.
After what must be considered one of his worst ever European nights - a night which reinforced the feeling that one of modern football's most visionary and influential coaches will never win a European trophy - a recurring question arose: what could another manager do with this group of players? A manager able to instil defensive discipline and address the glaring inadequacies in his team's structure and mentality, that have persisted for far too long.
Arsenal have two of the world's most gilded talents in Alexis Sanchez and Mesut Ozil, who last night were compromised by the systemic failure of the whole and were unable to function together. They have, in players of the ilk of Santi Cazorla and Tomas Rosicky, ball-players of supreme quality. In Jack Wilshere and Aaron Ramsey they have two young men who, if their talent is fully unlocked, could be giants of the game. They have a defence that... okay, maybe not the defence.
But the point stands about Arsenal's quality, and in the era of FFP they are in a formidable position - largely thanks to Wenger's vision and patience, it must be said - with a hugely profitable stadium and burgeoning commercial and TV income. Everything is geared for success. Everything, yet catastrophe remains endemic.
There is little to commend Jose Mourinho for his gratuitous snipe at Wenger on Goals on Sunday but the broad thrust of his logic was surely correct: "Arsenal? I don't understand why they are not where we are with Man City. I like their team very much, very good players, Alexis [Sanchez] and [Danny] Welbeck added to what they already had - a very good squad. In this moment he [Wenger] has a dream job that we would all love to have. Every manager in the world would love to have stability he has year after year with a chance to buy, to sell, to rebuild, to wait for success... and wait and wait. I think he has dream job.
“Obviously a fantastic manager and in a fantastic situation to be successful. Look at the players, look at the squad, they have to win because it's fantastic. Why haven't they been successful [recently]? I don’t know. They are capable of playing very good football. Talented players, goals from midfield and the sides. Such a squad in terms of quality and numbers, and look at the attacking options they have - [Alex] Oxlade-Chamberlain, [Mesut] Ozil, [Theo] Walcott, [Santi] Cazorla, [Tomas] Rosicky, Alexis [Sanchez] - unbelievable number of options.”
Mourinho is right. Concerns over their sporadically ramshackle defence aside, this is a squad deep with talent, but which now has a 1.5% chance of getting past Monaco to reach the quarter-finals. European adventure has been deferred again. Instead, selfies will be splashed across Instagram when fourth place is secured so it can happen all over again, and the horror of this disturbingly bad performance against Monaco will eventually fade into the ether. But it should not be forgotten: Monaco were playing with a vastly weakened XI and any serious club would not have come close to conceding three times to them at home.
Every distinct passage of this performance was flawed. The listless and careless first half which produced not a single shot on target; the error-strewn start to the second half as Olivier Giroud appeared to disintegrate before our very eyes; the inevitable Monaco goal on the break; the bizarrely anaemic response to that goal; and, after a flurry of excitement following Oxlade-Chamberlain's late strike, the utter incompetence to allow a third so late, again taken apart on the break.
There was arguably a case for pressing for a second, even with so little time to play, given the unlikelihood of scoring twice in Monaco against a side so impermeable as this. Last weekend’s match against Crystal Palace and Glenn Murray’s late, late header against the post may have served as inspiration. But Arsenal had to pursue another goal intelligently, not throw everyone forward then allow Oxlade-Chamberlain to get ganged up on, forcing an error, and being ruthlessly exposed on the counter. Again.
This three-minute vignette was Arsenal in microcosm. Emergent hope, the promise of redemption from the boot of a brilliant but flawed young talent, only to be brutally and predictably crushed by a more street-smart opponent.
Arsenal are football's Prometheus, except their eternal torment is not to have their liver pecked out every day by eagles, but to be caught, naively, high up the pitch, with opponents surging on a swift counter to exploit gaps in the Arsenal defence which could have been safely navigated by one of the super yachts moored in Monaco's harbour. This is how Arsenal fans experience football. And it never, ever, ends. Catastrophe stalks every match. Disaster lurks in the shadows. Especially when, time and again, they are so utterly naive when it comes to defending.
Trying to elicit sympathy for the FA Cup holders is not an easy pitch to fans of around 88 other clubs but Arsenal should be doing so much better than this. Their history and their current circumstances demand it. Austerity is over and with the players at their disposal it is not unreasonable to expect a proper title challenge or a foray deep into the Champions League.
But Arsenal have embraced mediocrity under Wenger and nobody embodies that better than Giroud. A club with a proud recent lineage of forwards from Ian Wright, through Dennis Bergkamp, Thierry Henry and Robin van Persie cannot be content with a centre-forward with as many flaws as the Frenchman. As a Plan B he is acceptable, but Giroud will never be the kind of world-class striker that Arsenal need. He will not win a title.
The Arsenal PR machine has been out in force to talk Giroud up since his two goals against Middlesbrough. Wenger has fulsome in his praise last weekend while Mikel Arteta - captain, which tells its own story - joined in in last night's programme: "he has taken big strides forward in his three seasons here ... I think he's made a very good improvement over the years and his goalscoring record is getting better and better. I think he has improved in all aspects of his game."
It certainly did not feel like that when, after an hour of play, the crowd were baying for his removal after three excellent chances were wasted, each better than the one which preceded it. When Wenger took him off it was a merciful act. His head was in his hands and he was broken. You could not doing anything but sympathise with Giroud. But try to imagine that happening to a striker of genuine substance.
So bad was Arsenal’s performance, in fact, that Wenger broke with tradition to actually criticise his players. He cited “suicidal defending”, explaining: "It looks like we have lost our nerve and our rationality on the pitch. The heart took over the head and at that level it doesn't work. Our weakness was more down to mentality.”
Transferring blame to the players is legitimate, especially after such a horrid display, but this is a modern super club, or at least an institution which has designs on the title, which has been reshaped from top to bottom by one man. Wenger has established the training sessions, the dietary regimes, the matchday protocol, the recruitment strategy, the playing style. He even designed the shape of the dressing rooms. Any systemic or mental failure is by extension his. And as the cycle of despair continues, seemingly for eternity, it’s clear there is only one way to break it.
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Bradywasking
- Posts: 6257
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:14 am
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
From Arsenal.com...Wenger Press Conference.
on Aaron Ramsey and Mathieu Flamini...
They come back into normal training today and tomorrow. They are nearly there, not completely there. From Wednesday night I don’t think we have lost anybody. We have no major problems.
on Jack Wilshere...
Jack Wilshere had a little surgery to take his two buttons off his ankle because they were irritating him but it’s a very minor procedure. He’ll be out for a few days.
on it just removing discomfort...
Yes. It was irritating his ankle and they had to take it off.
on whether it’s another setback for Jack...
No, it was planned to be done at the end of the season. But because he had an irritation with it, we decided to do it now. It’s a few days.
on whether he’ll be available next weekend...
Next weekend will be a bit quick. I don’t know exactly. It’s days, not weeks.
on Abou Diaby...
The only thing I must say is that he progresses well in training. He goes step by step but he has not played yet and is not in a position to play yet.
The Diaby one would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic
on Aaron Ramsey and Mathieu Flamini...
They come back into normal training today and tomorrow. They are nearly there, not completely there. From Wednesday night I don’t think we have lost anybody. We have no major problems.
on Jack Wilshere...
Jack Wilshere had a little surgery to take his two buttons off his ankle because they were irritating him but it’s a very minor procedure. He’ll be out for a few days.
on it just removing discomfort...
Yes. It was irritating his ankle and they had to take it off.
on whether it’s another setback for Jack...
No, it was planned to be done at the end of the season. But because he had an irritation with it, we decided to do it now. It’s a few days.
on whether he’ll be available next weekend...
Next weekend will be a bit quick. I don’t know exactly. It’s days, not weeks.
on Abou Diaby...
The only thing I must say is that he progresses well in training. He goes step by step but he has not played yet and is not in a position to play yet.
The Diaby one would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
good piece by Tom Adams,thanks for posting GranadaJoe,it really hits the nail on the head,there is only one way to break this cycle of shit!!! the club is rotten to the core,we will only stagnate further while Wenker remains in charge 
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clockender1
- Posts: 6257
- Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:53 pm
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
one of spains top journos says Ozil and Alexis to hand in transfer requests in May. He says Wonga has turned Arsenal into a "graveyard" for top quality players...
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Perryashburtongroves
- Posts: 16093
- Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 6:18 pm
- Location: At the start of a glorious era.
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
[quote="clockender1"]one of spains top journos says Ozil and Alexis to hand in transfer requests in May. He says Wonga has turned Arsenal into a "graveyard" for top quality players...[/quote]
And who can blame them? From Real Madrid and Barcelona to working with the biggest under-achieving *word censored* in world football.
And who can blame them? From Real Madrid and Barcelona to working with the biggest under-achieving *word censored* in world football.
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
And who can blame them? From Real Madrid and Barcelona to working with the biggest under-achieving *word censored* in world football.[/quote]Perryashburtongroves wrote:[quote="clockender1"]one of spains top journos says Ozil and Alexis to hand in transfer requests in May. He says Wonga has turned Arsenal into a "graveyard" for top quality players...
if this was true as sad as it would be to lose them especially Sanchez although we haven't seen the best of ozil as hes been wasted,it might actually be the final nail in Wenkers coffin.the turd might finally flush especially if no other top class players are willing to sign for us,just imagine how awful we'd be without the top class players we have now but instead just average dross for Wenker to work with,there'd be no hiding place then surely,we'd be fighting for the Europa cup places for sure
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
Anyone who is still pro wenger should read that article posted by GranadaJoe.
Very well written, highlights wengers faults without sounding like a witch hunt.
Loved the bit about Giroud and Arteta being captain is "another story".
Very well written, highlights wengers faults without sounding like a witch hunt.
Loved the bit about Giroud and Arteta being captain is "another story".
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Blood_Gooner
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:35 pm
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
Any link?clockender1 wrote:one of spains top journos says Ozil and Alexis to hand in transfer requests in May. He says Wonga has turned Arsenal into a "graveyard" for top quality players...
