THE WENGER THREAD

[BFG4]

The views from some people on here prove why Wenger will never be under any pressure as manager. We are on a good run of form, and the performance on Saturday was great, but we are 7 points behind Chelsea, (who have a game in hand), so again we haven't challenged for the title, while we also failed in Europe. Should we be praising Wenger for potentially finishing 2nd? We have such low expectations as fans.

[You are my sunshine]

Low? Realistic? Depends on your point of view I suppose. If I owned Chelski or Man Shitty then I would demand the league title based on money spent, closely followed by ManUre. But as an Arsenal supporter I demand it based on my ST cost?

[SPUDMASHER]

So we should expect to win the league?


What planet are you on? Wanting to win the league is fine, expecting to just isn't realistic!


We could go on next year to win it but we could also go on to fail miserably and end up finishing 8th or 9th. One of those would be great and the other a disaster but to consider 2nd as failing is just childish!

Some of our fans need a dose of fucking reality. Expectations being set so high can only lead to disappointment and would have done so on more than 100 occasions during our history. Just as well you don't support any of the other 85+ teams in the league that have never won the premiership. What a bunch of failures they must all be.

Wenger frustrates the crap out of me as much as anyone and I'd not be disappointed if he was replaced but at least I have some balance in my view. It isn't realistic to expect to win the league in any interpretation of the word and it isn't fair to lay the blame for every aspect of the club at his feet.

[BFG4]

Spudmasher, its Wenger that starts every season saying the club's aim is to win the league, while the club have said we will be able to compete with the best in Europe after the Puma deal was signed. You misunderstand me, I don't think we should be winning the league, but I expect us to challenge for the title, not be content with runners up, as Chelsea walk away with the title. Have you forgotten the part of the season when Wenger neglected buying a CB until January, or should we praise him for getting Gabriel in along with this possible 2nd place finish?

[SPUDMASHER]

Not at all, like I said he frustrates the shit out of me at times.

Wenger has to say it is the clubs aim to win the league. If you're one of the top teams that has to be your aim. It doesn't mean that not doing so by finishing 2nd should be considered abject failure though. Yes you should compete for it but it is very difficult to win.
If Maureen/Klopp/Guardiola/Rogers or any of Europe's top managers come to Arsenal they would also say that the aim is to win the league. Would our fanbase then be on their back if we finished second?

People have forgotten that last season we only needed to reverse two results and we would have been champions. Admittedly we got royally stuffed in those two games but they were the difference. I'd consider that as a reasonable challenge.

[StuartL]

Spudmasher, its Wenger that starts every season saying the club's aim is to win the league, while the club have said we will be able to compete with the best in Europe after the Puma deal was signed. You misunderstand me, I don't think we should be winning the league, but I expect us to challenge for the title, not be content with runners up, as Chelsea walk away with the title. Have you forgotten the part of the season when Wenger neglected buying a CB until January, or should we praise him for getting Gabriel in along with this possible 2nd place finish?

Had we bought Gabriel (or another competent cb) and got our midfield shield sorted we could have won the league.

Winning the FA Cup and finishing 2nd I would h ave taken all day at the start of the season.( If we do)

[markyp]

There always comes a point when individuals will have a point of view which cannot be changed. I will vote the same way at the next general election, irrespective of who is in charge of the party I vote for. I will also always support Arsenal irrespective of who is at the helm. Everything that goes right is luck and eveything that goes wrong is Wenger's fault.

the point that Augie is making though which is the same for me and countless others is that yes we are second but we havent put in a serious title challenge this season and under Wenger never will again,i don't care that we are on a roll right now it wont continue next season only in fits and starts.alot of people have short memories,the good run we are having now right at the end of the season when its too late is no different to last season.the only difference being last season we hit the ground running then fell to pieces about now,where as now we were shit early doors and have got it together at the end,how does that make Arsene a good manager??we are fortunate that city,utd,spuds,liverpool,everton have been dire,its making us look good,fact is we aint all that and whilst Wenker remains in charge it will be the same next season and the season after,a purple patch per season then mediocrity for the rest.yes im happy that we are playing well but it doesn't change the fact that under Wenker we will always come up short,believe in him if you are stupid enough to,its up to you

All the points I've highlighted in bold though are just assumptions on your part. They're not fact because they haven't had opportunity to happen yet. You don't know them to be true any more than anyone else.

I'm no AKB (ask those on here that actually know me) but it does seem to me that even if we win the treble every season for the next five years it would be down to luck and Wenger would still be shit etc. etc. etc.

If you blame him when its bad then you have to applaud him when its good. It's hypocrisy to do anything other than that. You can't have it both ways. At the moment he is a strong bet to deliver an F A Cup this season and possible finish second. That's not a bad season for any team. I don't give a fuck if the other top clubs are perceived as being shit this year or not. You can only compete in the league that you're in and as things stand we're the second best team in the country. We'd all like to be the best of course but to consider being second a failure is ridiculous.

assumptions?ffs fella,this is based on 10 years of exactly the same shit over and over again.when are you expecting us to win the league then??probably the same season we 'buy big',aint never gonna happen,and that isn't an assumption its based on fact isn't it

[BFG4]

Not at all, like I said he frustrates the shit out of me at times.

Wenger has to say it is the clubs aim to win the league. If you're one of the top teams that has to be your aim. It doesn't mean that not doing so by finishing 2nd should be considered abject failure though. Yes you should compete for it but it is very difficult to win.
If Maureen/Klopp/Guardiola/Rogers or any of Europe's top managers come to Arsenal they would also say that the aim is to win the league. Would our fanbase then be on their back if we finished second?

People have forgotten that last season we only needed to reverse two results and we would have been champions. Admittedly we got royally stuffed in those two games but they were the difference. I'd consider that as a reasonable challenge.

The problem is you are talking about fans having unreasonable expectations, as though we have had huge success over the last decade. If we do manage to finish 2nd this season, that will be our first 2nd place finish since 2005, and we have also won only one trophy since 2005, so to be praising the manager in that context is just laughable. Some fans are getting excited by the prospect of finishing 2nd, as though it means something.

[SPUDMASHER]

In response to BFG4 (don't want to keep re-posting other posts all the time)
No, we've bought big.

Ozil, Sanchez............. I think it has already happened. You might argue that they're not all that but you can't argue that we haven't spent big money in the market. Or are you looking for us to pay £50m+ for every position?

I don't ever 'expect' to win the league. I want to win it every year. Expecting to do so is the preserve of the Arabs and the Russians.

[SPUDMASHER]

Not at all, like I said he frustrates the shit out of me at times.

Wenger has to say it is the clubs aim to win the league. If you're one of the top teams that has to be your aim. It doesn't mean that not doing so by finishing 2nd should be considered abject failure though. Yes you should compete for it but it is very difficult to win.
If Maureen/Klopp/Guardiola/Rogers or any of Europe's top managers come to Arsenal they would also say that the aim is to win the league. Would our fanbase then be on their back if we finished second?

People have forgotten that last season we only needed to reverse two results and we would have been champions. Admittedly we got royally stuffed in those two games but they were the difference. I'd consider that as a reasonable challenge.

The problem is you are talking about fans having unreasonable expectations, as though we have had huge success over the last decade. If we do manage to finish 2nd this season, that will be our first 2nd place finish since 2005, and we have also won only one trophy since 2005, so to be praising the manager in that context is just laughable. Some fans are getting excited by the prospect of finishing 2nd, as though it means something.

Who's praising the manager? I'm not! I'm just saying "let's get some sense of perspective here". Regardless of our success levels over the last decade, 2nd place doesn't make us the failures that some would have you believe. Third isn't the end of the world. You can't win it every year and Liverpool are the proof of that. On the basis of our performance over the last decade we have no right to expect to win the league any more than they do.

[gp543]

It will be interesting to see if Coquelin is dropped as soon as Arteta is ready to play.

Arteta's off on a free to Real Sociedad. He won't play him.

[You are my sunshine]

So are fans allowed to have different opinions on where we should finish, or expect to. If you believe that top 4 finishes are acceptable, bearing in mind where we are financially etc, then we are meeting expectations. If you believe we should be winning the title, or at least challenging for it, up until the final day of the season, then we are not.
Much of it must come down to whether people believe someone else could have done better, and if that person was available at the time.

[beck]

There always comes a point when individuals will have a point of view which cannot be changed. I will vote the same way at the next general election, irrespective of who is in charge of the party I vote for. I will also always support Arsenal irrespective of who is at the helm. Everything that goes right is luck and eveything that goes wrong is Wenger's fault.

the point that Augie is making though which is the same for me and countless others is that yes we are second but we havent put in a serious title challenge this season and under Wenger never will again,i don't care that we are on a roll right now it wont continue next season only in fits and starts.alot of people have short memories,the good run we are having now right at the end of the season when its too late is no different to last season.the only difference being last season we hit the ground running then fell to pieces about now,where as now we were shit early doors and have got it together at the end,how does that make Arsene a good manager??we are fortunate that city,utd,spuds,liverpool,everton have been dire,its making us look good,fact is we aint all that and whilst Wenker remains in charge it will be the same next season and the season after,a purple patch per season then mediocrity for the rest.yes im happy that we are playing well but it doesn't change the fact that under Wenker we will always come up short,believe in him if you are stupid enough to,its up to you

Oh come on
Everton have not had as many points as we have at this stage of the season anytime in the last 30 years
Spurs have not had as many points as we have at this stage of the season anytime in the last 52 years
Im as fed up with wenger and his failure to plan for the whole season as the next man but Everton and spurs? Please

[markyp]

There always comes a point when individuals will have a point of view which cannot be changed. I will vote the same way at the next general election, irrespective of who is in charge of the party I vote for. I will also always support Arsenal irrespective of who is at the helm. Everything that goes right is luck and eveything that goes wrong is Wenger's fault.

the point that Augie is making though which is the same for me and countless others is that yes we are second but we havent put in a serious title challenge this season and under Wenger never will again,i don't care that we are on a roll right now it wont continue next season only in fits and starts.alot of people have short memories,the good run we are having now right at the end of the season when its too late is no different to last season.the only difference being last season we hit the ground running then fell to pieces about now,where as now we were shit early doors and have got it together at the end,how does that make Arsene a good manager??we are fortunate that city,utd,spuds,liverpool,everton have been dire,its making us look good,fact is we aint all that and whilst Wenker remains in charge it will be the same next season and the season after,a purple patch per season then mediocrity for the rest.yes im happy that we are playing well but it doesn't change the fact that under Wenker we will always come up short,believe in him if you are stupid enough to,its up to you

Oh come on
Everton have not had as many points as we have at this stage of the season anytime in the last 30 years
Spurs have not had as many points as we have at this stage of the season anytime in the last 52 years
Im as fed up with wenger and his failure to plan for the whole season as the next man but Everton and spurs? Please

jeez,you forget spuds have regularly pushed us for the final CL spot and Everton if you cant remember were odds on for the 4th spot last season right up until they fell to pieces at the death,i didn't just pluck these teams from thin air as a comparison,my point was that those I mentioned have all had piss poor season compared to last,had they been on a par with last season we wouldnt be second in the league unless of course you think that we,ve improved that much over the last year,i guess in your world we are still pushing for the title

[armchair]

I'm no AKB (ask those on here that actually know me) but.........

lol