THE WENGER THREAD

[SPUDMASHER]

Chelsea and Man City's vast wealth also blows us out of the water. Whilst Dortmund have had a resurgence lately they've spent a large part of this season hovering around the relegation zone. We've not been down that far at any point. Aside from Bayern they're one of the biggest clubs in Germany and should be doing far better than they are. I only really know about them because I work for a German company with quite a lot of Germans. One of them in my office is a Dortmund fan. They don't generally have a great view of Klopp. They also don't have much that is bad to say about him apart from his 'rod of iron' style of rule having several negative effects. Apparantly, in their view not mine, he was nonchalant about players leaving the club and would not do anything to attempt to keep them. According to them he has a negative view of player greed that means as soon as a player suggests they want a move for more money (as many of them do to try and negotiate a better deal at their existing club) he almost tells them to piss off and the relationship with the player breaks down from there onward, leaving them with no option but to go.

I also need to point out a bit of a double standard in your post mate. You lambast Wenger for allowing our players to leave and strengthen our rivals but appear to have some understanding for his position even though he is allowing the same thing to happen. Double standards if you ask me!


The only other thing I would say is that being around a lot of Germans has a downside. If you think that Liverpool have a sense of entitlement and that Manure fans are arrogant pricks etc. Try being around Munich fans!!!!!!!

[augie]

Regarding the double standards spuddy, I do absolutely and utterly lambast wenker for selling rvp to manure - we/he was in a position of total control and chose to let him join one of our biggest rivals. Dortmunds situation was totally different - gotze and lewandowski ran down their contracts and were able to sign for whoever they wanted to - obviously at that point money becomes a huge factor and in that regard they hadn't a hope of competing with Bayern.

Have to say that I don't really disagree with his view's on greedy players - maybe the one big difference is that, in cashley and rvp's situation, I would have sent them to the reserves if they continued to push for the exit. These players were under contract and as soon as you get seen as a club and manager that buckles under player pressure, you will have any greedy disloyal cuntbag player knocking on your door pushing for a sale

Only a fool would argue against the point that financially we are blown out of the water by citeeh and the chavs (and I aint no fool ), but that only tells part of the story - we/wenker had money to spend and chose not to spend it. If we used all the resources at our disposal and still failed, then I could support the argument of the impossibility of competing with the mega rich but the reality is that isn't the case. We have lost and dropped stupid points to clubs that haven't a tenth of the resources that we have and that is nothing to do with citeeh and the chavs The manager has developed this "we cant compete" defence as an escape clause and sadly it has caught on amongst many fans

[SPUDMASHER]

I also largely agree with his views on greedy players but putting them into the reserves isn't a realistic option. You have to remember that a football club is a workplace like any other and the last thing you want in any workplace is the disgruntled unhappy poor old me employee. They're like a cancer and that is why many companies today would rather move them on than keep them on principal. They're too disruptive. Now if that's the case in a company imagine how much that is magnified in a football club. Ultimately you have to let them go because their negative impact is too much to sustain.

I'd never criticize a player for moving out of ambition to win trophies. Personally I think that RVP saw that our club was not going to deliver that for a few years and he wanted medals in his cabinet before his career finished. I don't really blame him for going. Cashley on the other hand was purely about money and he behaved disgracefully throughout that period of time.

You also have to remember that Managers, Klopp and AW included, are often told that the club wants to cash in on the player and therefore they don't get a lot of choice. I think that applies to all clubs to be honest and I don't believe the line that AW makes every decision in that respect. I think he has more input than most managers would but he doesn't get the casting vote.

[OneBardGooner]

There will always be internal things/decisions that go on - we are not, nor ever will be privy to - But, wenger's flaws have become more and more obvious as he has continued as manager of The Arsenal. The lack of trophies has served to highlight those flaws.

An inability to openly admit his own failings

A failure to get rid of players who fail to live up to their earlier promise and potential (Denilson/Bendtner et al)

An inability to buy (even with so called limited resources) the players that will best serve the club

His continuing trend of buying flair/skilled players who are physically small and unable to compete with the more physically robust teams - the Orcs/Chavs etc

He has too much 'power' as a manager of a multi-million pound company - a position he has elected himself to by doing what the board want him to do rather than what the fans would prefer.

A failure to grasp the full picture of how his ( and so the teams continued) failings and flaws have seriously dented and tarnished the (once) admired and respected Class of Arsenal FC.

We all once loved him as The Arsenal manager - now I want him to step away (with grace - which seems more and more impossible the loinger he 'clings on') and let a younger, wiser, more able manager with the potential and no nonsense attitude to do what's necessary in a game (and business) that has changed hugely since he first came to Arsenal.

Any new manager coming in will need to go 'toe to toe' with the owner or else the same old same old (or even worse) will continue, especially if Wenger moves 'upstairs' and continues to pull the strings.

[Ikechukwu1]

Personally I don't know what the all the fuss is about with Klopp. He's a decent manager but I don't see him as being the great messiah. If you look at his track record it isn't too dissimilar to AW's early years. He assembled a good squad in his early time there that has slowly drifted on to other clubs and he hasn't been able to replace them with equal quality (sound familiar?) He's now almost got his club relegated (based on the principal that a bad team performance is the managers fault) and who is to say that if he stayed at Dortmund he'd wouldn't now be embarking an a ten year trophy less run?
Of course, none of us know what the future would have held for him there as he could equally have gone on to win the league for the next 10 years.

I really don't get what the wankfest is all about

This is almost as funny as your comment about Wenger having a plan for Coquelin all along this season
Small history lesson. Jurgen Klopp took over Dortmund when their finished 3 planes above relegation. In his first 6 years, his net spend was €6m. Go and look it up. In that time, he took a club that had been on the brink of insolvency, to challenging the giant that is Bayern, and winning not one, but two league titles, 3 domestic cups and came within a whisker of winning the CL. I'm not even mentioning the other CL virtual trophies.
Klopp's salary is also a quarter of Wenger's.
In anybody's book, this is outstanding football management.
In the AKB Book of Mormon, this is an idiotic excuse to ignorantly overlook this and claim he's "not that special"
It's really very simple: in a 10 year period, Jurgen Klopp's managerial record in trophy terms, and considering his far smaller wage bill and salary; is FAR superior to the dross Wenger has served up. And you Wengerites know it too.
So the rush to try and taint Klopp is hilarious!
Klopp wasn't given a club with cash in the bank, an outstanding back 5 and Dennis Bergkamp hanging around. He had to turn it all round himself and that he did. It's an amazing feat.

Unlike your Messiah - though I admit, Klopp hasn't quite matched the virtual "win streak" trophy Wenger has won this season, and the incredible 1 FA Cup win in a decade. Remember, Wenger spent £100m in 2 transfer windows this year and still couldn't challenge for a title.

Wenger was a nobody when he joined Arsenal - so why do his fanboys keep insisting whoever replace him need be a proven megastar?
Any new manager would dimy have to compete for a title and win a domestic cup and he'd already have bettered a decade of a Wenger

[Ikechukwu1]

Chelsea and Man City's vast wealth also blows us out of the water. Whilst Dortmund have had a resurgence lately they've spent a large part of this season hovering around the relegation zone. We've not been down that far at any point. Aside from Bayern they're one of the biggest clubs in Germany and should be doing far better than they are. I only really know about them because I work for a German company with quite a lot of Germans. One of them in my office is a Dortmund fan. They don't generally have a great view of Klopp. They also don't have much that is bad to say about him apart from his 'rod of iron' style of rule having several negative effects. Apparantly, in their view not mine, he was nonchalant about players leaving the club and would not do anything to attempt to keep them. According to them he has a negative view of player greed that means as soon as a player suggests they want a move for more money (as many of them do to try and negotiate a better deal at their existing club) he almost tells them to piss off and the relationship with the player breaks down from there onward, leaving them with no option but to go.

I also need to point out a bit of a double standard in your post mate. You lambast Wenger for allowing our players to leave and strengthen our rivals but appear to have some understanding for his position even though he is allowing the same thing to happen. Double standards if you ask me!


The only other thing I would say is that being around a lot of Germans has a downside. If you think that Liverpool have a sense of entitlement and that Manure fans are arrogant pricks etc. Try being around Munich fans!!!!!!!

Please get a better grasp of finance. Your analysis of their comparative finances is ridiculous :
Wolfsburg, Schalke, and Leverkusen all have far more cash than Dortmund. You can't compare Dortmund with Arsenal - Arsenal's wage bill is near Chelski's, they are very close. Arsenal matchday revenue is bigger than Man United - add 18 years CL cash. Dortmund almost went bankrupt. You're comparing a West Ham with a Real FFS
Dortmund's wage bill is lower than QPR. Those numbers are verifiable.
But you think they can be compared with Wenger's mediocrity?!
WOW

[augie]

In fairness, you can call spuddy a lot of things but he aint no akb/wengerite

[SPUDMASHER]

In fairness, you can call spuddy a lot of things but he aint no akb/wengerite

Oh no Augie, I must be, he says I am and he's never been wrong about anything.

I guess he never learned what a devil's advocate is.

I'm not even going to bother getting into it with him as we all know that whilst he may not be an AKB, and might not even be a WOB, he's definitely a WUM

[beck]

Hey beck, leave the post office out of this - there is a lot of first class people working in the postal service and we are the hub of the community

Was not talking about the staff sir a fine example of working people but the Geoffrey boycotts in my day types that you tend to find who in my day everything was always better

[Ikechukwu1]

Now now. Haven't you heard about this incredible win streak we are on? A few years from now you can regale your grandchildren with epic tales "I was at Turf Moor when Arsene won the consecutive win streak virtual trophy". If you add that to the calendar year trophy, and the automatic CL qualification trophy too (massive upgrade on 4th!) then I make that as Wenger massively overachieving this season! Might go down as his greatest ever achievement this streak and automatic CL qualif trophy

Errrr just don't mention that Cesc Fabregas chap winning the Ruskis the league yesterday, don't mention that there is every possibility that he may make the club look like total retards in a couple of weeks from now..and of course, be sure not to mention that centre-back we shoulda signed in summer when "nobody was available" (easier to sign players in Jan you see), or that holding midfielder we needed...oh bugger, I forget that Coquelin was always a central part of Arsene's grand plan! That's what he usually does with key players, ships them off to Charlton

Also don't mention he spent £17m on a joke United reject who earns £100k a week but can't outscore Chris fucking Smalling. Just let that sink in (but his game isn't about goals! )

I see the Wengerites doing their best to airbrush history with this "run". Fuck the run it's the usual shite Wenger pulls when there's no pressure to win. Why doesn't he ever pull off these runs over the Xmas period?

This season will be remembered for the shocking transfer window that handicapped us, and gift-wrapping Jose the league title. Not signing Cesc is one thing, but then you have to make amends by signing a top of the range midfielder and striker. Instead we got Welbeck :

Hang on, you talk of other people airbrushing history, yet when talking about summer signings you focus on Welbeck and completely ignore the fact we signed Alexis Sanchez from Barcelona.

That was a fantastic signing and whereas you only have eyes for Welbeck, Alexis has bagged 20 so far. Surprised you forgot about him.

Yes Sanchez at £35m was a fantastic signing. I mean, not rocket science when he's available and your only competition is the Scousers but yep terrific player. Was he sufficient in context of our entire season? Has he been enough to be the difference in the big games? And stop conceding sloppy goals? Nope, he wasn't.
The defender wasn't signed, nor was the DCM.
So the point stands: the transfer window was a disaster, and playing Monreal at CB, and watching Montero rape Chambers at Swansea are tiny examples, although Welbeck scoring no more league goals than Smalling is an effin disgrace. Still, this season has been a mediocre one. "Progression"? Lol. Finishing ahead of Citeh keeps being mentioned (but I though you couldn't compete with oil money? ) But. We finished about 15 pts ahead of Yernited last year, they may finish ahead of us this. We were about 2 pts behind Chelski last year, they'll finish about 10-12 ahead of us this season. And actually you know, win the league. Eliminated from CL by financially doped Monaco.
Nope, not buying into the myth, been "progressing" for a decade without challenging for a bloody title

That's fine. You make some valid points. I just thought it odd for you to take time to analyse our summer business yet not find a single word for Alexis Sanchez.... especially after starting your analysis by criticising someone for airbrushing our history.

Anyway, everyone can decide for themselves what counts as progress. If you ask me, winning the FA Cup after 9 years without a trophy is progress. If we follow it up with our first top 2 position in a decade and a 2nd FA Cup in a row then I'd say that counts as progress again.

But each to their own; it's certainly not all rosie in the Arsenal garden. We all know that.

Like I said. You claimed we'd "progressed" last year. And now again the claim is being repeated again. And yet, it's now 11 years without a title challenge despite the "financial shackles" coming off. Love it when I'm told that urine is actually apple juice

[Ikechukwu1]

In fairness, you can call spuddy a lot of things but he aint no akb/wengerite

Fair point Augie. Though I distinctly remember his defence of this being
"I'm no AKB but..."
Sure smells like one pal

[Ikechukwu1]

It's almost as if Le Twat is worried! Why does he care so much that people are fussing over Klopp leaving Dortmund?
The irony is that he's claiming the club will "do just fine" without him - even though Klopp saved them from the brink (relegation and bankruptcy). Yet of course, if Lord Wenger ever left Arsenal, ooooooh watch it go up in flames!

http://www.theguardian.com/football/vid ... mund-video

[OneBardGooner]

In fairness, you can call spuddy a lot of things but he aint no akb/wengerite

Oh no Augie, I must be, he says I am and he's never been wrong about anything.

I guess he never learned what a devil's advocate is.

I'm not even going to bother getting into it with him as we all know that whilst he may not be an AKB, and might not even be a WOB, he's definitely a WUM

Something we can ALL agree on.

[augie]

It's almost as if Le Twat is worried! Why does he care so much that people are fussing over Klopp leaving Dortmund?
The irony is that he's claiming the club will "do just fine" without him - even though Klopp saved them from the brink (relegation and bankruptcy). Yet of course, if Lord Wenger ever left Arsenal, ooooooh watch it go up in flames!

http://www.theguardian.com/football/vid ... mund-video

Have to agree that le cock's response to the klopp questions were, for want of a better word, bizarre - he totally downplayed klopp's abilities in my opinion and it came across disrespectful

[sauberlime]

In fairness, you can call spuddy a lot of things but he aint no akb/wengerite

Oh no Augie, I must be, he says I am and he's never been wrong about anything.

I guess he never learned what a devil's advocate is.

I'm not even going to bother getting into it with him as we all know that whilst he may not be an AKB, and might not even be a WOB, he's definitely a WUM

Something we can ALL agree on.

Just a +1 to that!