As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
augie wrote: if our points tally is not as good as last season, then doesn't a higher league position suggest that others have regressed rather than we have progressed ? .
No not at all - the entire league could improve in quality or regress - the points tally is not comparable. As Gunner Rob pointed out - we won the league in 98 with less points than we got last yr - your logic suggests that last seasons 4th was better than the 98 title.
Points are apples and oranges year to year.
What we can compare is performance against the main 4 Chelsea/City/United/Liverpool:
13-14 P 8 W 1 D 3 L4 F7 A 18 D -11
14-15 P 7 W 2 D 3 L2 F11 A 9 D +2
That to me shows a significant degree of progress in terms of top level competitiveness.
we lost to spuds though who are worse this season than last,utd alike,we still cant beat the chavs let alone score and city have always been the one team we can beat,porgress my arse.come back to me when we beat Chelsea and our points for against the big teams is significantly bigger than the ones against.if its progress you are looking for then Arsene has made progress with his zip,thats positive for you
You cannot say we haven't progressed until we beat Chelsea. That's just nonsense.
If our record against the other top clubs is better this year than last then that is progress....end of.
We may not have progressed as much as we all want to but we also live in a world where we want everything today. I think with a couple, maybe three, quality additions we'll be making a real challenge in the coming years. In order to get those signings we may need a new manager and/or a slightly different style of play. As much as I hate c u n t, John Terry is right when he says we won't win anything playing the tippy tappy shite we often do.
You cannot say we haven't progressed until we beat Chelsea. That's just nonsense.
If our record against the other top clubs is better this year than last then that is progress....end of.
We may not have progressed as much as we all want to but we also live in a world where we want everything today. I think with a couple, maybe three, quality additions we'll be making a real challenge in the coming years. In order to get those signings we may need a new manager and/or a slightly different style of play. As much as I hate c u n t, John Terry is right when he says we won't win anything playing the tippy tappy shite we often do.
Do you believe that if we made two or three quality signings we would win a title under this manager ? Let me put it another way, would he win the league if he was managing the current chav or citeeh teams ? Quality additions are really crucial for this squad but unbalanced team selections and a total lack and comprehension of tactics will ensure that he remains yesterdays man. I know that you said that we may need a new manager to get those signings, but my question is about our prospects if we made those signings with wenker in charge cos new signings will only take us so far, and chances are that those signings wouldnt be in the positions of need anyway
This progressed/ regressed argument is pretty much irrelevant though. AW wont be going next season, we will probably end up in the top 4 again. We may get lucky and win a cup we may get to the last 16 or 8 in the CL. Hopefully we will get 6 points again the Scum and get another St Totteringham day award.
We do have better players in many positions though than say 5 years ago, but despite that and despite hopes raised and dashed as usual we probably wont challenge properly for the title till AW goes, unless we are very very lucky, I think that is pretty much agreed.
foxinthebox2001 wrote:Looking back at the teams that started on Sunday, Chelsea had 9 players that began their first game of this season.
Costa injured
Schurle shipped out.
Our team had just 4 that kicked off against Palace, Kos, Ramsey, Alexis, & Santi.
Szczesny, out of favour
Debuchy, sub
Gibbs, sub
Chambers, squad
Arteta, injured
Wilshere, sub
Sanogo, found out.
One of the key elements in a successful season is a settled team, ok you can partially blame injuries, but there is enough evidence there to suggest Wenger did not know his best 11 in August.
Maureen did.
There is enough evidence to suggest that le cock still doesnt know his best line up - changing ramsey to the wing again absolutely defies belief and is fcuking ramsey up as well as the team
Personally, I think Coquelin and Cazorla have formed a handy partnership in the middle of the pitch (backed up by results) and Ramsey has played well in parts on the right in the last few games.
You couldn't argue with Ramsey in the middle when he was in the form of last season however, when he's not at that level imo he's still a tad too undisciplined.
More or less endorses my point, Coquelin was on loan at Charlton through to December, Cazorla was played on the left wing or behind the striker for most of the season.
If it wasn't for injuries to Arteta, Flamini, Wilshere, and Ramsey, both would probably still be there.
It's fallen into Wengers's lap, rather than any masterful switch of tactics.
Why didn't he know those 2 would be well suited playing central back in August?
You cannot say we haven't progressed until we beat Chelsea. That's just nonsense.
If our record against the other top clubs is better this year than last then that is progress....end of.
We may not have progressed as much as we all want to but we also live in a world where we want everything today. I think with a couple, maybe three, quality additions we'll be making a real challenge in the coming years. In order to get those signings we may need a new manager and/or a slightly different style of play. As much as I hate c u n t, John Terry is right when he says we won't win anything playing the tippy tappy shite we often do.
Might as well have said "we are 2-3 players away"
Love the way it's being ignored that this "progress" has come against the backdrop of Wenger spending £100m in two transfer windows!
Only at Arsenal could a period of 11 years in which the only thing we have to show for it is a paltry FA cup scrape against Hull, could that be construed as #Progress
The progress propaganda machine are fooling nobody. The fact that shameful Jose record continues, that we're now failing to beat Spuds in the league, added to that humiliation against Monaco and our worst start to a league in over 40 years....and all that with £100m spent. Wenger spent far more than Jose did on net transfers this past year, but as ever, the Pravda machine will overlook this
All that money spent for a Top 4 finish and no title challenge?
You cannot say we haven't progressed until we beat Chelsea. That's just nonsense.
If our record against the other top clubs is better this year than last then that is progress....end of.
We may not have progressed as much as we all want to but we also live in a world where we want everything today. I think with a couple, maybe three, quality additions we'll be making a real challenge in the coming years. In order to get those signings we may need a new manager and/or a slightly different style of play. As much as I hate c u n t, John Terry is right when he says we won't win anything playing the tippy tappy shite we often do.
Might as well have said "we are 2-3 players away"
Love the way it's being ignored that this "progress" has come against the backdrop of Wenger spending £100m in two transfer windows!
Only at Arsenal could a period of 11 years in which the only thing we have to show for it is a paltry FA cup scrape against Hull, could that be construed as #Progress
The progress propaganda machine are fooling nobody. The fact that shameful Jose record continues, that we're now failing to beat Spuds in the league, added to that humiliation against Monaco and our worst start to a league in over 40 years....and all that with £100m spent. Wenger spent far more than Jose did on net transfers this past year, but as ever, the Pravda machine will overlook this
All that money spent for a Top 4 finish and no title challenge?
#Progress
Ike the antithesis of Pravda mate.
Our £42m player wasnt available for most of the start to the season. Think you are skewing things a bit IMHO, "We are now failing to beat Spurs in the league" is a bit much- last season we won 3 times, this a draw and a horrid loss, that against a boy wonder who will probably get found out. You cant skew stats and hope to get away with it.
An FA cup win is a win whether its a scape or not, the records there, cant be removed. Remember on our way we bit both Liverpool and Scum, so overally encouraging. We may have spent bigger than Chelsea but their loan system is massive, they have hoovered up a lot of the youngsters, look at it- TWENTY FIVE out loaned in August 2014 including Salah, 22 years old. bought for £11m in Jan 2014, 18 appearences since then. Bamford, 21, new played ever for The Chavs since signing for 1.5m but over 100 loan appearences. Sure we could go out and do that I guess, but its perhaps less easy, hard to know why. Its quite a factor
You cannot say we haven't progressed until we beat Chelsea. That's just nonsense.
If our record against the other top clubs is better this year than last then that is progress....end of.
We may not have progressed as much as we all want to but we also live in a world where we want everything today. I think with a couple, maybe three, quality additions we'll be making a real challenge in the coming years. In order to get those signings we may need a new manager and/or a slightly different style of play. As much as I hate c u n t, John Terry is right when he says we won't win anything playing the tippy tappy shite we often do.
Do you believe that if we made two or three quality signings we would win a title under this manager ? Let me put it another way, would he win the league if he was managing the current chav or citeeh teams ? Quality additions are really crucial for this squad but unbalanced team selections and a total lack and comprehension of tactics will ensure that he remains yesterdays man. I know that you said that we may need a new manager to get those signings, but my question is about our prospects if we made those signings with wenker in charge cos new signings will only take us so far, and chances are that those signings wouldnt be in the positions of need anyway
The simple answer is 'I don't know'. Liverpool were very close to winning the league last year and their manager is far worse than ours.
We could win it under him but similarly we could bring in Klopp and finish outside the top four for the first time in years. We just simply don't know.
Theoperator wrote:This progressed/ regressed argument is pretty much irrelevant though. AW wont be going next season, we will probably end up in the top 4 again. We may get lucky and win a cup we may get to the last 16 or 8 in the CL. Hopefully we will get 6 points again the Scum and get another St Totteringham day award.
We do have better players in many positions though than say 5 years ago, but despite that and despite hopes raised and dashed as usual we probably wont challenge properly for the title till AW goes, unless we are very very lucky, I think that is pretty much agreed.
Well, if we manage to add 2 or 3 top quality additions to our squad this summer, then who knows ....
I might be over optimistic , but as it stands I don't see many other teams other than the London Oilers competing for the title next season. The 2 Mancs clubs are a mess and are both in the process of rebuilding/trying to. If Citeh sack their manager , they'll start from scratch , while Manure under Louis 'knows best' Van Gaal are a work in progress.
With a new world class GK , a back up CB / DMF , and somebody upfront who can stay fit and score goals in big games I think we have a good chance.
Plus if rumours are to believed , next season is gonna be AW's final one, so I'm sure he'll want to leave on a high note.
Fingers crossed !!
You cannot say we haven't progressed until we beat Chelsea. That's just nonsense.
If our record against the other top clubs is better this year than last then that is progress....end of.
We may not have progressed as much as we all want to but we also live in a world where we want everything today. I think with a couple, maybe three, quality additions we'll be making a real challenge in the coming years. In order to get those signings we may need a new manager and/or a slightly different style of play. As much as I hate c u n t, John Terry is right when he says we won't win anything playing the tippy tappy shite we often do.
Might as well have said "we are 2-3 players away"
Love the way it's being ignored that this "progress" has come against the backdrop of Wenger spending £100m in two transfer windows!
Only at Arsenal could a period of 11 years in which the only thing we have to show for it is a paltry FA cup scrape against Hull, could that be construed as #Progress
The progress propaganda machine are fooling nobody. The fact that shameful Jose record continues, that we're now failing to beat Spuds in the league, added to that humiliation against Monaco and our worst start to a league in over 40 years....and all that with £100m spent. Wenger spent far more than Jose did on net transfers this past year, but as ever, the Pravda machine will overlook this
All that money spent for a Top 4 finish and no title challenge?
#Progress
Ike the antithesis of Pravda mate.
Our £42m player wasnt available for most of the start to the season. Think you are skewing things a bit IMHO, "We are now failing to beat Spurs in the league" is a bit much- last season we won 3 times, this a draw and a horrid loss, that against a boy wonder who will probably get found out. You cant skew stats and hope to get away with it.
An FA cup win is a win whether its a scape or not, the records there, cant be removed. Remember on our way we bit both Liverpool and Scum, so overally encouraging. We may have spent bigger than Chelsea but their loan system is massive, they have hoovered up a lot of the youngsters, look at it- TWENTY FIVE out loaned in August 2014 including Salah, 22 years old. bought for £11m in Jan 2014, 18 appearences since then. Bamford, 21, new played ever for The Chavs since signing for 1.5m but over 100 loan appearences. Sure we could go out and do that I guess, but its perhaps less easy, hard to know why. Its quite a factor
Get back down the lane mate
Aaaaah I see. So the new excuse is that we were "missing our £42m player". Would that be the same £42m player that's often derided by our fans and has less assists in his whole time here than Cesc
The excuse used to be that poor AW didn't have the cash - but now that he's outspending Jose, the new excuse is "gaming the loan system". I assume that's the same "loan system" Matic, Costa and Cesc came from
Who is skewing stats? The Spud and Jose records are there for all to see. As is the worst league start in over 40 years. As is elimination to Monaco. As is no league title in over a decade and out of the title running before Xmas. Still. Keep going, I'm sure the virtual #Progress definitely isn't a figment of the imagination
You cannot say we haven't progressed until we beat Chelsea. That's just nonsense.
If our record against the other top clubs is better this year than last then that is progress....end of.
We may not have progressed as much as we all want to but we also live in a world where we want everything today. I think with a couple, maybe three, quality additions we'll be making a real challenge in the coming years. In order to get those signings we may need a new manager and/or a slightly different style of play. As much as I hate c u n t, John Terry is right when he says we won't win anything playing the tippy tappy shite we often do.
Might as well have said "we are 2-3 players away"
Love the way it's being ignored that this "progress" has come against the backdrop of Wenger spending £100m in two transfer windows!
Only at Arsenal could a period of 11 years in which the only thing we have to show for it is a paltry FA cup scrape against Hull, could that be construed as #Progress
The progress propaganda machine are fooling nobody. The fact that shameful Jose record continues, that we're now failing to beat Spuds in the league, added to that humiliation against Monaco and our worst start to a league in over 40 years....and all that with £100m spent. Wenger spent far more than Jose did on net transfers this past year, but as ever, the Pravda machine will overlook this
All that money spent for a Top 4 finish and no title challenge?
#Progress
That's just such a skewed view of the whole situation though isn't it. It's basically a case of focus only on what is bad as being real and totally ignore anything good and call it rubbish or nonsense etc. If you had any balance you'd have some credibility.
I can easily say that the 'no progress propaganda machine is fooling nobody' but my saying it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't even mean it exists, much the same as your comments.
Nobody is ignoring the spending Wenger has done. Of course you would expect progress to go hand in hand with that. What point are you trying to make? Are you suggesting we should make progress without spending? Wasn't that a strategy a few years back? So we spent more than Chelsea for once, big deal! We also spent a lot less than them for many years and if you only want to set the last window as your baseline then you're not giving it any context. It's just a cheap throw away criticism.
You simply cannot measure anything by results against the scum. It's a derby game ffs and we all know that they have little to do with form most of the time regardless of who the teams are.
Your absolute inability to give any credit where it is due is undermining your whole viewpoint and just convincing more and more people on this forum that you are more concerned with trolling and winding people up than you are with actually contributing anything of worth to this site.
I'll ask again, for those who might have missed it, are we any closer to winning the title this season than any other season over the last 10 or so seasons?
And, please spare me the tedious injuries excuse. We all know that if all our sure pick players were available from the get go, Clueless would run them into the ground by midway the season and we'd still be hearing the same lame injuries excuse coming from another angle. So, don't waste any time pulling that Pravda spiel.
If the answer to the above question is a no, then I reckon you all know what's the follow up question....
BBC sport page - Ivan Gazidis "When we talk about the destination, it's not winning a Champions League, it's making fans proud," he said.
"It's about making the people at the football club proud of what we do and how we do it."
Gazidis, who described current boss Arsene Wenger as a "world-class manager", added: "We get a lot of criticism, but we have people at the club who are very firmly fixed on where we want to get to and won't get knocked off course by the whims that happen day to day.
"We are very much on that journey, and we may never reach the destination."
Pride before trophies, we need to have that added to the club crest.
Blood_Gooner wrote:I'll ask again, for those who might have missed it, are we any closer to winning the title this season than any other season over the last 10 or so seasons?
And, please spare me the tedious injuries excuse. We all know that if all our sure pick players were available from the get go, Clueless would run them into the ground by midway the season and we'd still be hearing the same lame injuries excuse coming from another angle. So, don't waste any time pulling that Pravda spiel.
If the answer to the above question is a no, then I reckon you all know what's the follow up question....
I think so yes!
Last year we finished fourth. This year we could finish second, maybe third. That's closer!
Last year we were only had to reverse two results and we would have been champions. Admittedly we got royally butt fucked in those two but it was still only two results.
