Arsene Wenger

[Herbert144]

I know that this will be controversial - and I hate to criticise Arsene Wenger after all he has done for the club - but am I alone in thinking that he has made too many mistakes this season with regard to team selection, as well as a failure to strengthen the squad at all? His failure to field the strongest team possible against Spurs in the Carling Cup semi-final second leg and against Man Utd in the F.A. Cup led to crushing defeats and I believe, undermined the confidence of the squad before they ever got to Birmingham. What happened at St Andrews, with the terrible injury to Eduardo was just the last straw and I think, the damage had already been done.
To be frank, three years without a trophy, transition or not, is nowhere near good enough and if we are honest, if a Chelsea, Man Utd or Liverpool manager had such a record, they would be on their way out. Much as we all revere Arsene Wenger, is it not perhaps time for him to go with honour? Regrettably I think so and I suggest that Martin O'Neil would be a great replacement. Does anyone else agree?

[gus ceasar is a legend]

I agree with a lot of what you say!

Yes we do have the utmost respect for Wenger and admire what he has done for our club but if he had only been at the club the last three seasons I think there would be a lot of people calling for his head!

In Arsene we trust sure, but that trust is being stretched!

[g88ner]

Herbert, I disagree wholeheartedly with your article...even if you do have the same first name as my dad! erm...dad, is that you??

Nigel Phillips of the Arsenal Supporters Trust concluded:
"Of the near £70m of cash balances, £25m is unavailable as it is used to partially secure future repayments of the debt facilities and one also assumes some is set aside to meet the probable £20m of additional transfer fees payable on existing squad members.

This does however leave maybe £25m for the squad building (transfer plus wages).."

Now, with this mind...I think we have to be careful what we wish for...could O'Neil do a better job than Wenger on the same budget???

And;

Would our current players stick around if Wenger left? In my opinion, Cesc, Hleb, Ade, etc would be more likely to leave if Wenger wasnt around.

I just think that sacking Wenger, or how ever the hell you put it, is daft...and happily the board, and Wenger, don;t seem to be mulling over such an idea

I understand people are frustrated with our 3 trophyless years....but we are where we are because of Wenger..and I really think that should never be forgotten.

If we were floundering around 4th spot...trying to fend off Spurs and Everton, then I would have to agree that we are not showing signs of imporvement....but we so clearly are improving!

The last 2 months have been awful..and yes, maybe we should have spent in January....but its not all doom and glooom.

The team showed enough to me this season to not only be proud of them, but to keep faith with Wenger through a period in our history where money is tight!

[Gunner4LiF3]

Arsene Wenger is the best thing that ever happened to Arsenal.

He had done a FANTASTIC job with the limited money he had to spend.

With a little more luck we would been top of the prem now and in the semi of CL. I think we have a fantastic team, and if Wenger adds a left winger and a CB we will win it next season!!!

[I Hate Hleb]

YOU HAVE TO ALWAYS BEAR IN MIND HERBERT, THAT WENGER HAS HAD FECK ALL MONEY DURING THE PAST 3 YEARS, SO TO ALMOST TOTALLY REBUILD THE SIDE - ALBEIT THERE ARE STILL SOME CRUCIAL PIECES MISSING - WHILST REACHING 2 FINALS AND STILL KEEPING UP NEAR THE TOP, HAS BEEN AN ACHIEVEMENT I DOUBT ANY OTHER MANAGER COULD HAVE PULLED OFF. THAT'S WHAT MAKES HIM DIFFERENT TO THE MANAGERS AT MAN UTD, CHELSEA AND LIVERPOOL AND WHY HEW SHOULDN'T BE JUDGED BY THE SAME CRITERION.

[REB]

take all points but remember time stands still for no man and at some stage people will get fed up ,, but wenger was and is still the man for the job,, maybe next season more will view this differently but lets see what the summer brings

[26may1989]

I know that this will be controversial - and I hate to criticise Arsene Wenger after all he has done for the club - but am I alone in thinking that he has made too many mistakes this season with regard to team selection, as well as a failure to strengthen the squad at all? His failure to field the strongest team possible against Spurs in the Carling Cup semi-final second leg and against Man Utd in the F.A. Cup led to crushing defeats and I believe, undermined the confidence of the squad before they ever got to Birmingham. What happened at St Andrews, with the terrible injury to Eduardo was just the last straw and I think, the damage had already been done.
To be frank, three years without a trophy, transition or not, is nowhere near good enough and if we are honest, if a Chelsea, Man Utd or Liverpool manager had such a record, they would be on their way out. Much as we all revere Arsene Wenger, is it not perhaps time for him to go with honour? Regrettably I think so and I suggest that Martin O'Neil would be a great replacement. Does anyone else agree?

Complete load of shit.

Herbert, I disagree.

[26may1989]

I know that this will be controversial - and I hate to criticise Arsene Wenger after all he has done for the club - but am I alone in thinking that he has made too many mistakes this season with regard to team selection, as well as a failure to strengthen the squad at all? His failure to field the strongest team possible against Spurs in the Carling Cup semi-final second leg and against Man Utd in the F.A. Cup led to crushing defeats and I believe, undermined the confidence of the squad before they ever got to Birmingham. What happened at St Andrews, with the terrible injury to Eduardo was just the last straw and I think, the damage had already been done.
To be frank, three years without a trophy, transition or not, is nowhere near good enough and if we are honest, if a Chelsea, Man Utd or Liverpool manager had such a record, they would be on their way out. Much as we all revere Arsene Wenger, is it not perhaps time for him to go with honour? Regrettably I think so and I suggest that Martin O'Neil would be a great replacement. Does anyone else agree?

Complete load of shit.

Herbert, I disagree.

But welcome to the forum!

[Red Gunner]

I know that this will be controversial - and I hate to criticise Arsene Wenger after all he has done for the club - but am I alone in thinking that he has made too many mistakes this season with regard to team selection, as well as a failure to strengthen the squad at all? His failure to field the strongest team possible against Spurs in the Carling Cup semi-final second leg and against Man Utd in the F.A. Cup led to crushing defeats and I believe, undermined the confidence of the squad before they ever got to Birmingham. What happened at St Andrews, with the terrible injury to Eduardo was just the last straw and I think, the damage had already been done.

I agree with the first paragraph

To be frank, three years without a trophy, transition or not, is nowhere near good enough and if we are honest, if a Chelsea, Man Utd or Liverpool manager had such a record, they would be on their way out. Much as we all revere Arsene Wenger, is it not perhaps time for him to go with honour? Regrettably I think so and I suggest that Martin O'Neil would be a great replacement. Does anyone else agree?

I disagree with the second one O'Neill? I don't want that gnome at my club

[Magic Hat]

Herbert, a lot of Arsenal fans are unhappy with stuff Arsene has done this season including myself, though think he fielded the only fit 11 he had at Old Trafford. I think you will find most here are willing to give him one or two more seasons to get it right.

[Bergkamp95]

three seasons without a trophy is a sackable offence but the reason why he is still at Arsenal Football Club today he is saving the club alot of dosh on splashing out on big mane players and you can see why Avram Grant and Rafa Benitez jobs are in doubt is the fact they spent so much money during the transfer window and still could win nothing this season.

[Rob]

I can see where you're coming from Herbert but I would not want to see Wenger leave now.

Although unlike a lot of people on here I am pretty critical of him and I certainly don't fall into the "Wenger for ever" category - whatever that means exactly. As I am not aware Wenger has cracked the secret of everlasting life any more than he's yet worked out how to win the CL.

But I really do see this closed season as crucial to him and us. And I'm not going to take any bullshit excuses about 'limited funds'...etc....etc...

We've had a negative nett spend for 3 years now. That is we have received more for players flogged on than we have spent on players coming in. No other team in the EPL comes close to that !

We've lost TH14, DB10, Pires, FL8, Sol, Edu, Cole, Wiltord and a whole load of others off the wage bill and whilst others have come in they weren't remotely on what TH14, Sol and FL8 were on - there's nearly £250,000 per week right there !!


So this closed season is make or break.

If Wenger fouls it up - for whatever reason and we belly flop again, I ain't going to wear the "we're nearly there one more effort" approch come the summer of 2009.

And I won't be the only one.

[Herbert144]

Yes, I do agree that Arsene Wenger has done wonders with far less money than Man Utd, Chelsea or even Liverpool have had at their disposal and he has a superb eye for young talent. Also, of course, there is a strict wage structure at Arsenal, which is in my opinion, a good thing. However, all this leads to two problems: a) Arsenal have difficulty keeping these players once they have made a reputation - all too often they leave for continental or higher paying clubs. For example, Pires, Anelka, Overmars, Viera, Henry, Lauren, Cole, Reyes and Petit. I'm afraid that, whether Wenger stays or goes, many of the present squad will be tempted away by bigger pay packets at other clubs, not to mention better prospects of winning trophies. Barcelona are after Cesc Fabregas and I am willing to bet that if we go another season without a major trophy he will go.

b) Noble as Arsenal's efforts are to keep wages at sensible levels and not to splash out enormous sums for players, this means, inevitably that the club will not attract the more experienced quality players that we need to balance the youth. Sadly, these days club loyalty is a rare commodity. The game is all about money: those who have it, will get the best players and have the biggest squads. They will also win the trophies. It is no coincidence that the two richest clubs in the Premiership have dominated it over the last four years, while Arsenal have struggled, quite literally, to keep in the Champions League places. In 2005-6 we only just beat Tottenham to 4th place. It's a sad fact that money rules the game now, but that is not going to change - the great days of pride and loyalty are past and those clubs who don't adapt to the stark reality will fail.
I think we have to start attracting a few big players or we will risk being forever 3rd or 4th.

I was interested that one or two people said that if we go another season without winning a trophy questions might be asked about Wenger. I'd love nothing more than to see him stay and win a sackful of trophies in the coming few seasons, but I just don't think it's going to happen the way things are at present. So what if we are in the same position at the end of next season? What do we do then? Do we continue blaming referees, injuries and luck? Yes, we should have had a penalty against Liverpool in the Champions League - and they shouldn't have been awarded a last minute penalty at Anfield; but we have to accept that relying on refereeing decisions and luck going our way is no way to win trophies. The only way is to be better than anyone else - and make sure the bad refereeing and bad luck don't matter.

So what is the answer to our current malaise? I've seen all kinds of comments and articles about how much Wenger has - or doesn't have - available to spend and should Arsenal go into the red to buy in players. Frankly, the board should be doing everything in their power to make sure that as big a war chest as possible is available and that means going temporarily into the red so be it. Whatever it takes. If we win a major trophy, especially the Champions League, the club will rake in millions in any case. The fact that the board don't seem willing to support Arsene Wenger in this way is worrying I feel. What Arsenal needs is some of the ruthlessness that drives Man Utd and Chelsea and makes them so hard to beat.

I have supported Arsenal for forty years - cut me open and I am red and white the whole way through - and I have been through periods when I wondered if we would ever win a trophy again, so I am the first to hail what Arsene Wenger has achieved; however, we still haven't managed to win back-to-back Premiership titles, we still haven't won the Champions League and sadly, unless something changes pretty quickly, I don't think we will anytime soon. It pains me so much to say that.

Incidentally, my name isn't Herbert - I chose that username in honour of Herbert Chapman, who remains the only Arsenal manager to win back-to-back League titles. With Herbert we dominated for a decade - I dream of the day when we do so again.

[Magic Hat]

So your idea is to put us further in debt during a recession? Sure, if we win the CL then it should pay it off but big if and should we fail then we are in trouble.

Also, those players who have left, how many have gone on and done really well?

[g88ner]

Frankly, the board should be doing everything in their power to make sure that as big a war chest as possible is available and that means going temporarily into the red so be it. Whatever it takes. If we win a major trophy, especially the Champions League, the club will rake in millions in any case. The fact that the board don't seem willing to support Arsene Wenger in this way is worrying I feel. .

Its an interesting point you put across, and I confess, its one i've wondered myself; although I don't see it as a serious option!

It seems that the board are totally unwilling to go into the red in order to purchase 1 or 2 top top players, whereby most (if not all!!) of our rivals seem to be always in debt.

I'm not a financial wizard i'm afraid, so i'm not in any position to risk assess Arsenal's finances if we were to spend more than we have available.
- I guess the problem with speculating to accumulate, is that if we suddenly find ourselves out of the Champions League for a couple of years, then our finances will be severely hit, and maybe that's when a spiral of debt would kick in..a la Leeds Utd (I know that's a worst case scenario)

So I can't be critical of our club for doing everything they can to keep us in credit, and hence protect the future of our wonderful club...but its certainly an interesting point that you made Herbert.

Welcome to the forum